Prestige Options for a Sword and Board Fighter?

[Smooth Jim]

For context, in our 3.5 campaign, after my wizard and bard both died horribly, I decided to roll a character with better survivability chances, especially since our DM runs a dungeon crawl style where ranks in diplomacy and the like don’t make a huge impact. My usefulness as a fighter has dipped compared to our wizard, Druid, and ranged rogue, and I’m not having a lot of fun playing a tank whose job is just to do mediocre damage and be the melee in the game. We also have a sorcerer, cleric/paladin, and occasionally ranger in our party. I’d like to find a prestige class that still gives me that “hard to hurt” feeling while giving me the ability to get close to the same level of our power gamers, rather than being a hit bot/damage sponge. I’m also open to PrCs that feel like they give the fighter more to do - I tend towards role playing, even if this is a setting focused on combat.

I play a level 9 fighter (though my DM is willing to let me undo the last 3 levels to redo as a prestige class) who uses a magic flail (+1/+5 against undead, rolls an extra 2d6 damage on undead and emits a continuous bless effect on me if undead are within 30 feet), and a spiked shield. My stats are 17 STR, 14 DEX, 16 CON, 13 INT, 12 WIS, 11 CHA. My feats (again, open to some tweaking) are:
Blind-fight
Combat Expertise
Combat Reflexes
Improved Trip
Improved Shield Bash
Power Attack
Shield Charge
Shield Slam
Stand Still
Weapon Focus: Flail

Any PrCs that let me keep to this are desired, but if I undo a few levels to put myself in a more fun role, that’s also great. Thanks for your advice!

[Mike Miller]

What books can you use? If Tome of Battle is an option... Get that fighter killed if the DM won't let you just redo the character from the ground up and use the Crusader. The crusader is what you want.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

What books can you use? If Tome of Battle is an option... Get that fighter killed if the DM won't let you just redo the character from the ground up and use the Crusader. The crusader is what you want.This is what I, too, was going to suggest.

Though since you have 9 levels of fighter anyway, can you retrain into a bunch of ACFs, such as dungeon crasher and Zhentarim fighter, retraining some feats to work better with your bull-rushing and fear effects? You could even make that work with your flail snail and shield-bashing. Then start immediately taking levels in crusader (and warblade, too) after that, if that's what you want to do.

[edit] See if you can get some reach going with that flail. There are ways, and there are ways, and all of them are better than not having reach.

[pabelfly]

Side suggestion - I'd consider taking the Knock Down feat. You meet all the other feat prereqs already, and this gives you the option to make a free trip attack when you deal more than 10 damage to a target, and it seems like you can do that already pretty easily.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Side suggestion - I'd consider taking the Knock Down feat. You meet all the other feat prereqs already, and this gives you the option to make a free trip attack when you deal more than 10 damage to a target, and it seems like you can do that already pretty easily.Combine it with Knockback, dungeon crasher, and Improved Trip for lots of yummy attacks and tripping. Whack someone using Knockback, knock 'em down and deal extra damage with dungeon crasher, then get another attack via Improved Trip. If you work on getting your unarmed damage up a bit, feel free to add Snap Kick in there, too.

And if you have a level in crusader, you can heal a bit with every attack you get.

Oh, and Shock Trooper would be nice to have, too, all things considered.

[edit] You should consider purchasing a couple of castings of polymorph any object into a Large or larger critter. Having a much more combat-capable body would be fantastic for any number of reasons. And find ways to purchase extra feats (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?238812-Purchasing-Feats) to make your fighting style(s) more viable.

[Smooth Jim]

What books can you use? If Tome of Battle is an option... Get that fighter killed if the DM won't let you just redo the character from the ground up and use the Crusader. The crusader is what you want.

In short, they’re all available - just no homebrew options. If the fighter dies (entirely possible - we’re fighting a lich tomorrow), I might just say the hell with it and roll a barbarian.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

In short, they’re all available - just no homebrew options. If the fighter dies (entirely possible - we’re fighting a lich tomorrow), I might just say the hell with it and roll a barbarian.You mean the standard 1-level dip into whirling frenzy spirit lion totem, right? Because barbarian doesn't get much of worth after that, unless you're in Pathfinder.

Have you ever considered trying out the psychic warrior?

[ericgrau]

For context, in our 3.5 campaign, after my wizard and bard both died horribly, I decided to roll a character with better survivability chances, especially since our DM runs a dungeon crawl style where ranks in diplomacy and the like don’t make a huge impact. My usefulness as a fighter has dipped compared to our wizard, Druid, and ranged rogue, and I’m not having a lot of fun playing a tank whose job is just to do mediocre damage and be the melee in the game. We also have a sorcerer, cleric/paladin, and occasionally ranger in our party. I’d like to find a prestige class that still gives me that “hard to hurt” feeling while giving me the ability to get close to the same level of our power gamers, rather than being a hit bot/damage sponge. I’m also open to PrCs that feel like they give the fighter more to do - I tend towards role playing, even if this is a setting focused on combat.

I play a level 9 fighter (though my DM is willing to let me undo the last 3 levels to redo as a prestige class) who uses a magic flail (+1/+5 against undead, rolls an extra 2d6 damage on undead and emits a continuous bless effect on me if undead are within 30 feet), and a spiked shield. My stats are 17 STR, 14 DEX, 16 CON, 13 INT, 12 WIS, 11 CHA. My feats (again, open to some tweaking) are:
Blind-fight
Combat Expertise
Combat Reflexes
Improved Trip
Improved Shield Bash
Power Attack
Shield Charge
Shield Slam
Stand Still
Weapon Focus: Flail

Any PrCs that let me keep to this are desired, but if I undo a few levels to put myself in a more fun role, that’s also great. Thanks for your advice!
I'm confused why you have power attack with SaB. You'll just lose damage overall from not hitting, especially at level 9. And maybe confused why you have blind fight. Though with some coordination with the mage or other source of concealment you can exploit blind fight a bit better. I'd also want at least some ranks in listen so you can locate the square of foes while fighting blind (DC 20 if they're making noise). Or another way to find a concealed person's square. Whether from mage concealment or an invisible foe, how are you getting his square without at least listen as a class skill? Also you're a fighter 9 with some optimization and yet don't have melee weapon mastery or even weapon spec + improved weapon focus. Yet do have weapon focus.

Also how well does stand still work without a reach weapon? And why is it better than tripping with an attack of opportunity 95% of the time? Ditto for combat reflexes without reach. How many times have you actually gotten a 2nd attack of opportunity since you got the feat? The remaining feats seem useful btw. Mostly because they're active not reactive. When you take a reactive feat that better be something the DM keeps throwing at you over and over again or a situation that you artificially create. Like the example of creating concealment with the party mage, but again how are you finding enemy squares?.

Your str is a bit low for your level which hurts not only damage per hit but also number of hits and trips. I mean +1 per 4 levels and a cheap +2 item equals +4. You didn't start with 13 str did you? If your DM isn't allowing full treasure that's going to hurt you regardless of which non-caster you play. Besides the fancy weapon, you should have 10+ lesser/minor items plus potions and what not. I hope he didn't just load it all into your flail. Which you can't even exploit most fights. Because with quadratic costs 1 big item is the worst value in D&D. Besides the basic items, if you're diving into splatbooks then magic item compendium has some stronger choices.

ToB could make you a bit more effective if allowed, yes, but on the mediocre damage thing even the basics seem to be missing in feats and gear. Even with SaB, boring damage should be the one thing you do decently.

Assuming you must keep fighter 6 and don't ToB, here's some feat retweaking you can try:
Combat Expertise
Improved Trip
Improved Shield Bash
Shield Charge
Shield Slam
Weapon Focus: Flail
Weapon Spec: Flail
Melee weapon mastery (PHB2)
(2 feats left open for prestige plans or whatever)

Also works with fighter 4, in case you do get a redo but still want some feats. A 1 level barbarian dip for rage is a thought too. Also try to find a +2 str item, potions of enlarge person and maybe potions of protection from evil for the ocassional buff round. If not some much better items in magic item compendium. I hesitate to say which ones because I don't know if everything is allowed. Or maybe your DM only gives you the random treasure you find in the dungeon. Which is totally fine as long as you got 10 nifty little doodads and not just 1 big flail.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Combat Expertise
Improved Trip
Improved Shield Bash
Shield Charge
Shield Slam
Weapon Focus: Flail
Weapon Spec: Flail
Melee weapon mastery
(2 feats left open for prestige plans)What? Ew! No!

Go with dungeon crasher, get an animated shield and change those feats to Power Attack, Knockback, and Shock Trooper, then THF Power Attack enemies like ping-pong balls. You'll do MUCH better.

Because seriously? Weapon Specialization? Whyyyyy?!

And feel free to add Morphing to that flail, so you can turn it into a THF reach weapon. Gloves of the balanced hand for TWF, for the shield. And Improved Bull Rush for prereqs for Shock Trooper. Fanged ring, for Improved Unarmed Strike and Improved Natural Attack (Unarmed Strike). Add Snap Kick and Superior Unarmed Strike to taste. (Flaws are tasty. As are item-feats. Etc.)

Of course, there are ways to get IBR from an item, or you could pull some other tricks to get it more permanently.

[Menzath]

So I won't instantly suggest you take a different base class off the bat, first I'll critique your build, then offer my suggestions on feat choices, prc's, and then suggest a different base class.

Combat expertise is a trap. The idea is good, increased AC means I get hit less. But the trap is it hampers damage output considerable more this dragging out combat and giving you more chances to be hit.

Improved shield bash and a few feats in it's line are for TWF, and as such you should take TWF feats to make full use of them.

Shield charge/slam good on single high damage hit builds.

Blind-fighting is also a sort of trap feat, in that fighters generally want head/face slot magic items that ignore darkness or give better senses. But is useful if you are getting splatbook feats gated behind it, like Pierce magical concealment, or hear the unseen.

Power attack and improved trip are good meele staples.

Combat relfexes and stand still are good ones to help lockdown BSF enemies, they tend to do better when you
1; have reach(either from a weapon or being a larger size)
2; when you hit harder(you wanna have them never pass that reflex save)

Weapon focus, alot of feats are gated behind this and specialization, and a +1 to hit is almost worth a feat by itself(I mean, if you don't have any other good choices).

Feats I would change; blind-fight, combat expertise, combat reflexes, stand still, shield slam(full round action, ouch), shield charge.

You are using two bludgeoning weapons(I am assuming no shield spikes) so pulverize foe seems like a no brainier.
agile shield fighter(this is basically TWF when shield bashing, but better since ignores shield size and doesn't have a dex requirement).
shield specialization (gate feat).
shield ward(cause you already took the gate feat, and those are alot of bonuses against alot of things that shut you down.
Weapon specialization.
Melee weapon mastery-bludgeoning.

As for future feats...
Hard to say, but if increased AC is your thing look into heavy armor optimization, and it's greater version, and armor specialization as well.
If you are still bludgeoning by lvl14+ take a look at crushing strike.

For Prc classes you might want, it's not a prc but a 1lvl dip into lion totem barbarian for pounce. Cause pounce.
Hellreaver, cause even if you can't detect evil, sometimes it's a no brainier. Also the Swift action healing and immediate action save or AC bonuses. And mettle.
Also take a look at alternative fighter class features. Especially dungeon crasher.

With all of that being said. Crusader is probably what you should have done instead of fighter.

[Smooth Jim]

I'm confused why you have power attack with SaB. You'll just lose damage overall from not hitting, especially at level 9. And maybe confused why you have blind fight. Though with some coordination with the mage or other source of concealment you can exploit blind fight a bit better. I'd also want at least some ranks in listen so you can locate the square of foes while fighting blind (DC 20 if they're making noise). Or another way to find a concealed person's square. Whether from mage concealment or an invisible foe, how are you getting his square without at least listen as a class skill? Also you're a fighter 9 with some optimization and yet don't have melee weapon mastery or even weapon spec + improved weapon focus. Yet do have weapon focus.

Also how well does stand still work without a reach weapon? And why is it better than tripping with an attack of opportunity 95% of the time? Ditto for combat reflexes without reach. How many times have you actually gotten a 2nd attack of opportunity since you got the feat? The remaining feats seem useful btw. Mostly because they're active not reactive. When you take a reactive feat that better be something the DM keeps throwing at you over and over again or a situation that you artificially create. Like the example of creating concealment with the party mage, but again how are you finding enemy squares?.

Your str is a bit low for your level which hurts not only damage per hit but also number of hits and trips. I mean +1 per 4 levels and a cheap +2 item equals +4. You didn't start with 13 str did you? If your DM isn't allowing full treasure that's going to hurt you regardless of which non-caster you play. Besides the fancy weapon, you should have 10+ lesser/minor items plus potions and what not. I hope he didn't just load it all into your flail. Which you can't even exploit most fights. Because with quadratic costs 1 big item is the worst value in D&D. Besides the basic items, if you're diving into splatbooks then magic item compendium has some stronger choices.

ToB could make you a bit more effective if allowed, yes, but on the mediocre damage thing even the basics seem to be missing in feats and gear. Even with SaB, boring damage should be the one thing you do decently.

Assuming you must keep fighter 6 and don't ToB, here's some feat retweaking you can try:
Combat Expertise
Improved Trip
Improved Shield Bash
Shield Charge
Shield Slam
Weapon Focus: Flail
Weapon Spec: Flail
Melee weapon mastery (PHB2)
(2 feats left open for prestige plans or whatever)

Also works with fighter 4, in case you do get a redo but still want some feats. A 1 level barbarian dip for rage is a thought too. Also try to find a +2 str item, potions of enlarge person and maybe potions of protection from evil for the ocassional buff round. If not some much better items in magic item compendium. I hesitate to say which ones because I don't know if everything is allowed. Or maybe your DM only gives you the random treasure you find in the dungeon. Which is totally fine as long as you got 10 nifty little doodads and not just 1 big flail.

A lot to respond to here. I'll be honest, this fighter was created by me looking at some references online and seeing what feats were listed as particularly good for the fighter, without a whole lot of thought for optimization. Reflexes and stand still were to convince the party druid he didn't need to entangle the entire battlefield to protect the back line (and make melee fighters useless in the process). The special flail (and also a +3 set of heavy armor) were gifts of sorts from the DM for feeling bad that he's killed off my characters far more than any others. It's been long enough since I've created the fighter that I forget what his starting stats and items looked like - I agree my strength is low, but I don't want to give myself an arbitrary bump just because I think I did something wrong.

[Particle_Man]

Maybe one of those feats that lets you pour treasure into your magic weapon? Make it an intelligent items and it can take its own actions with spells, giving you more combat options. It could also have skill ranks, giving you options there too.

One prestige class that might work is horizon walker for a horizon tripper build but it is better to start that early. Another option is to start taking levels in crusader or warblade. They are multiclass friendly as your fighter levels count partially as crusader or warblade levels.

[Smooth Jim]

So I won't instantly suggest you take a different base class off the bat, first I'll critique your build, then offer my suggestions on feat choices, prc's, and then suggest a different base class.

Combat expertise is a trap. The idea is good, increased AC means I get hit less. But the trap is it hampers damage output considerable more this dragging out combat and giving you more chances to be hit.

Improved shield bash and a few feats in it's line are for TWF, and as such you should take TWF feats to make full use of them.

Shield charge/slam good on single high damage hit builds.

Blind-fighting is also a sort of trap feat, in that fighters generally want head/face slot magic items that ignore darkness or give better senses. But is useful if you are getting splatbook feats gated behind it, like Pierce magical concealment, or hear the unseen.

Power attack and improved trip are good meele staples.

Combat relfexes and stand still are good ones to help lockdown BSF enemies, they tend to do better when you
1; have reach(either from a weapon or being a larger size)
2; when you hit harder(you wanna have them never pass that reflex save)

Weapon focus, alot of feats are gated behind this and specialization, and a +1 to hit is almost worth a feat by itself(I mean, if you don't have any other good choices).

Feats I would change; blind-fight, combat expertise, combat reflexes, stand still, shield slam(full round action, ouch), shield charge.

You are using two bludgeoning weapons(I am assuming no shield spikes) so pulverize foe seems like a no brainier.
agile shield fighter(this is basically TWF when shield bashing, but better since ignores shield size and doesn't have a dex requirement).
shield specialization (gate feat).
shield ward(cause you already took the gate feat, and those are alot of bonuses against alot of things that shut you down.
Weapon specialization.
Melee weapon mastery-bludgeoning.

As for future feats...
Hard to say, but if increased AC is your thing look into heavy armor optimization, and it's greater version, and armor specialization as well.
If you are still bludgeoning by lvl14+ take a look at crushing strike.

For Prc classes you might want, it's not a prc but a 1lvl dip into lion totem barbarian for pounce. Cause pounce.
Hellreaver, cause even if you can't detect evil, sometimes it's a no brainier. Also the Swift action healing and immediate action save or AC bonuses. And mettle.
Also take a look at alternative fighter class features. Especially dungeon crasher.

With all of that being said. Crusader is probably what you should have done instead of fighter.

I might just hope the DM kills my fighter tomorrow and go with the crusader. I'm trying to find the balance between being underpowered and boring and powergaming to the point where the druid, rogue, and I finish the fight in one round and everyone else in the party doesn't get to have any fun. At any rate, I'll drop the shield abilities (I have a spiked shield, but that's from a legacy build of sorts where I wanted to charge into battle, knocking enemies aside with my shield before I whallop them with my flail).

[Mike Miller]

If you can, read up on the Crusader. It will be far more interesting. It is pretty much self-contained, too. You really don't need to worry about making a garbage character with it. On the other hand, you don't need to worry too much about optimizing it, because it is pretty solid. Just go with the maneuvers you want and I'm sure it will be fine.

[Troacctid]

For the record, you don't need to kill off your fighter in order to switch to crusader. You can just multiclass into crusader from where you are. Your fighter levels will still count towards your initiator level and give you access to higher-level maneuvers as a result.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

For the record, you don't need to kill off your fighter in order to switch to crusader. You can just multiclass into crusader from where you are. Your fighter levels will still count towards your initiator level and give you access to higher-level maneuvers as a result.And if you can swap some of your fighter levels out for fighter ACF levels, and your feats out for better feats, your current levels will do just fine if you put in the effort to use them effectively. (See my previous posts for details.)

[MisterKaws]

If your DM lets you retrain your entire character, you could change to a Dungeoncrasher shield-only Fighter. Doing it as a Goliath could get your damage really high really fast, especially since you're on a dungeon-diving campaign where there's walls everywhere.

Also, if I recall correctly, the floor counts as a wall if you're flying above an opponent, but I need some rules reference on that to confirm.

[Eldariel]

Yeah, no 3.5 PRC exists that would offer meaningful help here. Your best bet would be a fast progression casting PRC like Divine Crusader or Ur-Priest, but neither is very easy to fit in here.

Dungeoncrasher with Shield Slam [Complete Warrior] and some form of Knockback [Races of Stone] (qualify by getting permanently Enlarged, picking the Jotunbrud [Player's Guide to Faerun] feat as your 1st level feat or similar) or even Driving Attack [PHBII] would be my first go-to fix here. That would have the damage part covered and If you can get Zhentarim Fighter subs and have the Cha to get Imperious Command [Drow of the Underdark], level 9 is a good breakpoint. Otherwise, go into Crusader on 6. Fighter 6/Crusader 3 is actually a perfectly decent build. Crusader gives you damage to keep you useful without Power Attack while also expanding the applicability of your shield (Shield Block in particular is a great pick-up) and offering you some other nice tricks too.


You might also be interested in Person Man's Guide to Shields (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?123630-3-X-Person-Man-s-Guide-to-Shields); it's a decent compendium if not quite comprehensive.

[animewatcha]

Actually there are 2 that do when in combination with each other as well as adaptation text. OP said only 3 levels as retrainable unfortunately, but level 10 can finish this out. You will need to retrain your skills quite a bit and use level 6 to pick a feat that lets you pick up 2 more skill tricks that you can qualify for. This is in Complete Scoundrel. Level 7 can be Battle Trickster. The adaptation text can be used to replace the bonus tricks into more bonus feats. At level 8 ( assuming of course you picked up that feat that allowed 2 skills tricks so you can enter this earlier ) Uncanny trickster. You will suffer a slight loss of Hit die and bab. Adaptation to turn bonus tricks into bonus feats that 'focus on movement and defense' ( highly interpretable ). Use uncanny trickster to advance battle trickster. WIth this you can have 6 bonus feats over 4 class levels. You also have more skill points to put into all kinds of skills of the prestige classes.

I can help solve feat-hungry problems with a lil sacrifice.

[Falontani]

Do you still need assistance with this build? Did the fighter die, or will you be continuing with it.

[Particle_Man]

One nice thing about fighter 6/crusader 3 is that your second stance can be thicket of blades.

[Vizzerdrix]

I skimmed the topic. Are templates an option? Obah-blessed and mineral warrior are nice on a melee build.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

I skimmed the topic. Are templates an option? Obah-blessed and mineral warrior are nice on a melee build.They don't stack with polymorph any object, and they cost LA, to boot.

[Vizzerdrix]

They don't stack with polymorph any object, and they cost LA, to boot.

A little LA isnt a big deal on a noncaster. Just keep it to 3 and under so it can be bought off.

[maxion]

You could also ask DM if you could take options from Shield Bearer fighter ACF.

[Mr Adventurer]

If you're still multiclassing, then I wouldn't bother with Crusader because of how the class features stack up.

Therefore I'd consider Dungeoncrasher Fighter 6/Warblade 3. See if you can qualify for Master of Nine and use that to pick up Devoted Spirit shield manoeuvres.

If you are a Dwarf (I couldn't see your race) and the DM's dungeons often keep you underground and in close quarters, you could also look at Deepstone Sentinel.

Dungeoncrasher is an alternate class feature for Fighters in Dungeonscape.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

If you're still multiclassing, then I wouldn't bother with Crusader because of how the class features stack up.Crusaders get self-healing and are arguably the toughest non-caster in the entire game, which is important if you want to keep adventuring.


Therefore I'd consider Dungeoncrasher Fighter 6/Warblade 3. See if you can qualify for Master of Nine and use that to pick up Devoted Spirit shield manoeuvres maneuvers.Definitely second dungeon crasher, though given how well all initiators multiclass, gaining levels in both warblade and crusader is easy.


If you are a Dwarf (I couldn't see your race) and the DM's dungeons often keep you underground and in close quarters, you could also look at Deepstone Sentinel.I'm assuming human, since he has more feats than he should.


Dungeoncrasher is an alternate class feature for Fighters in Dungeonscape.And it's the best ACF for fighters, bar none.

[DEMON]

If you are a Dwarf (I couldn't see your race) and the DM's dungeons often keep you underground and in close quarters, you could also look at Deepstone Sentinel.

No love for Deepwarden? The PrC is 2 levels long, but still...

[Awakeninfinity]

I don't know your alignment; but...

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/prestigeClasses/warMind.htm

My advice would be to increase your Wisdom if you decide to take it

You could also go Wizard 1/ Abjurant Champion #

There is a useful third level spell called "Greater Mighty Wallop" (Races of the Dragon) that increases the effective size of your bludgeoning weapon.

So you could do that instead...

[Mr Adventurer]

No love for Deepwarden? The PrC is 2 levels long, but still...

I like the class but at the end of the day I wouldn't recommend aiming for it - just doesn't add enough 'bang' for the pre-requisites IMO.

[ericgrau]

A lot to respond to here. I'll be honest, this fighter was created by me looking at some references online and seeing what feats were listed as particularly good for the fighter, without a whole lot of thought for optimization. Reflexes and stand still were to convince the party druid he didn't need to entangle the entire battlefield to protect the back line (and make melee fighters useless in the process). The special flail (and also a +3 set of heavy armor) were gifts of sorts from the DM for feeling bad that he's killed off my characters far more than any others. It's been long enough since I've created the fighter that I forget what his starting stats and items looked like - I agree my strength is low, but I don't want to give myself an arbitrary bump just because I think I did something wrong.

Ah I see. The feats I listed as bad are all good for some styles but not good for your style. i.e., if you had some other things you could make them work. If you're out in the wilderness just let the druid entangle. If you're indoors then you rush to the choke point and block it. Even with normal reach you can hold an area up to 15' wide. Down a potion of enlarge person and block 30' if you like, or 10' really well. Or at least force foes to take an extra move action or a hit from you to reach the back line.

If you only have those two magic items then you're way behind. If you have those two items and 10 other cheap ones (around 500-2,500 gp each) then you're about right. Even if we assume the combined value of the weapon and armor is 29k gp and you have 9,000 gp in gold or something, they are much weaker than spending that 27,000 gp on other smaller pieces of gear. For example: +1 weapon 2.3k, +2 str 4k, +1 full plate 2,650, +1 shield 1,150, +1 ring of protection 2k. Total value 12,100 (actually a hair more, but whatever). And it's just as good as the 29k weapon and armor you have, and totals to only 1/3rd the gear you should have. Even if you were playing with low optimization where a fighter could keep up well enough with a wizard, if the party is severely under-geared it will hurt him more than it hurts the wizard. And there is no good solution to that besides either crazy levels of optimization or rerolling as a caster.

I described basic gear too. Even if your DM rolled randomly on the treasure tables you could do just as good. And the treasure tables should actually add up to more than wealth-by-level because you're supposed to sell some of it and buy what you like. And/or distribute to the correct PC. i.e., instead of the fighter selling a wand and a wizard selling a magic sword, you just swap them. It's an understandable trap where the DM would just want to pick a couple good items and get it over with, but as you can see from above it gives you less than half value on your gear.

15 str itself is ok if it wasn't bumped by anything. That's actually close to average. Not adding the free +1 to str every 4 levels would be your mistake. Or at least once to each major odd stat you have. But not having a +2 str item or else other nice random gear is where it gets fishy. Unless you simply haven't mentioned all the other random gear... and something else is boosting your damage maybe?


I might just hope the DM kills my fighter tomorrow and go with the crusader. I'm trying to find the balance between being underpowered and boring and powergaming to the point where the druid, rogue, and I finish the fight in one round and everyone else in the party doesn't get to have any fun. At any rate, I'll drop the shield abilities (I have a spiked shield, but that's from a legacy build of sorts where I wanted to charge into battle, knocking enemies aside with my shield before I whallop them with my flail).
Or this yeah. Make sure the crusader gets appropriate WBL when you make him, and search the forums for suggested magic items. Or at bare minimum get some level 1 potions, and a variety of +1 or +2 items. Only +1 on your weapon, and a special ability on it if anything. Or get other items instead of a special ability, since a magic weapon with a special ability is expensive. There are much better items in magic item compendium as you'll find from the search, but +1s & +2s would at least gets you up to baseline core gear.

[mabriss lethe]

I'll offer a suggestion either for this character or another. expand your mundane kit to handle some more tactical options.

Nets and lassos are dirt cheap and can give your opponents all sorts of trouble in the right situation. While they technically require exotic weapon proficiency, a full BAB character with even a modest dex bonus can easily just eat the -4 penalty for nonproficiency and still hit the touch attack.

Shapesand is also nice. You can build all sorts of impromptu gear or structures with it.

[ArtAndor]

I don't have any options specifically for Board and Sword type of fighter, so I will suggest general Melee fighter help.

A 1 level cleric dip and then go Hunter of the Dead. It fits well with your flail, has some spells and out of combat options. Cleric dip lets you heal abit and a few other nifty things for out of combat use. You can also go Mageslayer route for that "F*** all the undead casters" feel (Ranger dip with Arcane Hunter ACF would help as well).

Another option is Occult Slayer (Works well with Mageslayer line as both of them are geared to kill spellcasters, whom are the most dangerous opponents).

Elemental Warrior would add some damage to your flail (Sorry, Cannot recall exact numbers).

2 levels of Psychic warrior with Psionic Meditation, Psionic Weapon and Greater Psionic Weapon would add +4d6 damage on one attack/round.

If you are a human, I would recommend taking human paragon levels with a +2 STR bonus the bonus feat might also help you get easier into PrC (It also advances a spellcasting class by 2 CL, so a dip into something with spells would be great!).

Blackguard is a classic evil paladin that gives you a mount which scales with Character Level. Though this class is more feat intensive.

Dragonslayer likewise is feat intensive, but has 5/10 spell progression and nifty resistances as well as damage bonus against dragons.

A cleric dip and ordained champion for turn undead to smite ability and two bonus feats (from the domain conversion).

If you absolutely want damage, i would suggest going 3 duskblade for arcane channeling + shocking grasp. Duskblade also qualifies you for Dragon Disciple which gives you wings and +8 str amongst other things.

I am sorry these are not as optimized as druids or wizards are, but all these options should give you more flavor and use outside of combat.

[Vizzerdrix]

Shapesand is also nice. You can build all sorts of impromptu gear or structures with it.

Ah! I see you too are a person of refined tastes. :)

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Find a way to become proficient in all improvised weapons. Get a +1 morphing/sizing dagger. Enjoy being able to turn the thing into literally any item you're capable of holding. Feel free to smack enemies with grand pianos, tubas, dildos, anything.

Oh, and you can use them for their intended purposes too, if you want.