Removing Magic for a Mini-Campaign

[Scripten]

I'm about to embark on a rather special mini-campaign with a small subset of my players. For this campaign, my goal is to aim for a low/no-magic setting with a focus on science fantasy elements. In pursuit of that, I'm looking to remove magical options for the players as best as possible (obviously with full player buy-in and all that).

In light of this, I was wondering if anyone has done something similar and if my whitelists/blacklists are missing anything? I'm focusing entirely on classes/feats because race options will be limited, essentially, to vhumans for this campaign. Intended level is 1-10, with very quick progression, so anything past 10 is irrelevant. (This might open up more subclasses?) Additionally, only the PHB and XGE are available for class choices.

Regarding XGE's racial feats, Drow and Dragonborn are not available, so those are inherently blacklisted. The remaining racial feats may be used by characters declared as such races. (That I can mostly deal with myself. Just curious to see if anyone has commentary there.)

So far, this is what I've got:

Whitelist
Classes
Barbarian - Berserker/Zealot only - Warrior of the Gods is useless here. Would adding Ancestral Protectors from Path of the Ancestral Guardian to the Zealot be unbalanced? I may also change exhaustion from Frenzy to a single round of being Stunned.

Fighter - Champion/Battlemaster/Samurai

Monk - Open Hand/Drunken Master/Kensei

Rogue - Everything but Arcane Trickster

Feats
Everything not in blacklist, including racial feats from XGE

Blacklist
Classes
Bard/Cleric/Druid/Paladin/Ranger/Sorcerer/Warlock/Wizard - These are all magic-based classes, so they're out by default due to central class features.

Barbarian - Totem Warrior/Ancestral Guardian/Storm Herald - These are all based around magical abilities and can't really be fluffed around easily enough for me to want to deal with.

Fighter - Eldritch Knight/Arcane Archer/(Cavalier) - First two are obvious. Cavalier is blacklisted because noble backgrounds and mounts will be unavailable.

Monk - Shadow/Four Elements/Sun Soul - Latter two are obvious. Shadow could be fluffed around, but Darkness, Silence, and Minor Illusion is blatantly magical and are key to the subclass.

Rogue - Arcane Trickster - Obviously. :P

Feats
PHB - (Mage Slayer)/Magic Initiate/(Mounted Combatant)/Ritual Caster/Spell Sniper/War Caster - Parenthesized feats are not magical, but are blacklisted due to adjacency or other reasons.

Racial Feats - All Drow/All Dragonborn/Fade Away/Fey Teleportation/Flames of Phlegethos/Wood Elf Magic

[Wildarm]

Low magic campaign is fine and pretty much all marshal characters means a couple things for balance:

- Anyone who gets Int/Wis/Cha saves will rarely use them. Those traditionally weak to them will be noticeably stronger.
- No easy method to provide AOE so swarms of weaker enemies may be overwhelming
- A heavy martial focus means certain skills and stats will be severely neglected. Party face for example might not exist outside of a swashbuckler rogue.

I'd expect balance wise, the barbarian to be significantly stronger in this world. Having damage resistance to pretty much everything is strong. The Monk will be fairly unique in that he will have one of few ways of locking down an opponent. Rogues and Fighters will be relatively unchanged and keep being good at what they are good at.

[dragoeniex]

I'd whitelist Figher - Cavalier too for your specifications. Background doesn't really matter, and exactly 1 out of 3 of the subclass' third level benefits relates to mounts. 2/3 of the initial features and every single one after can be used as effectively to protect friends as horses.

It's a very effective bodyguard-type build even if your character never touches a mount.

[Vogie]

Anyone can play half a game and, with the appropriate amount of effort, utterly convince themselves it isn't lacking anything. With enough luck, you'll genuinely believe there are five lights.

If you want to use DnD, which is based around having alternatives to martials, you can just use some refluffing to make the existing OTHER classes fit in your world. Science fiction/fantasy elements have high level technology that is available. One might even say that "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic".

First and foremost, Cavalier doesn't need a mount to function. It has a single simple ribbon ability at the top that is mount-related. The number of people who write that subclass off because they just stop reading is a massive pet peeve of mine.
It isn't an Evocation wizard, it's an explosives expert. It isn't Scupt Spell, it's Shape Charge.
They're not illusions, they're holograms.
It's not the magic spell revivify, it's a defibrillator
Same with all of the Ranger classes, save Primeval Guardian, and you can certainly use the Spell-less Ranger from UA.
Actually Primeval Guardian could be refluffed as a sort of mecha that folds around the character, Iron-Man-Style.
They're not warlocks with pact magic, they're soldiers with some technology. It isn't an Eldritch Blast with the Repelling Blast invocation, it's a repulsor ray. It isn't a familiar, it's a drone.


Honestly, if you're already using this system and making up a story with your imagination, you might as well use your imagination to make up a story that actually uses this system.

[Garfunion]

with enough luck, you'll genuinely believe there are five lights.

there are... FOUR lights!

[Grod_The_Giant]

I did some work on low-magic 5e (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?543153-5e-Low-Magic-Overhaul-(Two-new-classes-and-one-new-subclasses-included!)), but it's still a bit of an iffy proposition. D&D has always relegated most of its depth to magic-users; cutting those out leaves you with a lot of the problems of rules-light systems (boring same-y combat) without the benefits (speed, room for improvising, reduced emphasis on crunch).

[Scripten]

I should add that the low/no magic elements are mostly restricted to the players. Honestly, I should not have said low/no magic setting, as that is actually inaccurate, but the details are complicated and not really relevant for this thread. I am currently running five full campaigns in the same setting, but this mini-campaign is a side story set in a different time period where the players have no access to magic for plot reasons. I appreciate the advice to aim for a different system, but I am confident in my approach and am specifically looking for feedback regarding elements I may be overlooking.


Low magic campaign is fine and pretty much all marshal characters means a couple things for balance:

- Anyone who gets Int/Wis/Cha saves will rarely use them. Those traditionally weak to them will be noticeably stronger.
- No easy method to provide AOE so swarms of weaker enemies may be overwhelming
- A heavy martial focus means certain skills and stats will be severely neglected. Party face for example might not exist outside of a swashbuckler rogue.

I'd expect balance wise, the barbarian to be significantly stronger in this world. Having damage resistance to pretty much everything is strong. The Monk will be fairly unique in that he will have one of few ways of locking down an opponent. Rogues and Fighters will be relatively unchanged and keep being good at what they are good at.

Good points here, thank you!

Without spellcaster classes, I am anticipating magic, swarms, and other enemy tactics to be overwhelming. The players will be expected to avoid combat as much as possible and, failing that, to attempt to set encounters as much in their favor. I see now that I'll need to plan for social encounters without magic as well. My table zeitgeist is generally skill-based during social encounters, so I imagine that will remain the same, thankfully.

The point about barbarians was something I had not considered. I'll be sure to keep it in mind as I plan encounters!


I'd whitelist Figher - Cavalier too for your specifications. Background doesn't really matter, and exactly 1 out of 3 of the subclass' third level benefits relates to mounts. 2/3 of the initial features and every single one after can be used as effectively to protect friends as horses.

It's a very effective bodyguard-type build even if your character never touches a mount.

That's a fair point. I may modify that subclass to give it another skill proficiency at 3rd level to compensate for the lack of mounts.


Anyone can play half a game and, with the appropriate amount of effort, utterly convince themselves it isn't lacking anything. With enough luck, you'll genuinely believe there are five lights.

I'm currently running five other 5e campaigns with all PHB, VGM, and XGE options available. I'm getting the "full game" experience plenty enough that I'm fine with this experimental side game existing.



If you want to use DnD, which is based around having alternatives to martials, you can just use some refluffing to make the existing OTHER classes fit in your world. Science fiction/fantasy elements have high level technology that is available. One might even say that "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic".

I'm aware of this. This is, as I said, an experimental side campaign alongside many default 5e campaigns. I have reasons for my choices - they're just not really relevant to the discussion here. Not worried about my motivation; just about my execution.




First and foremost, Cavalier doesn't need a mount to function. It has a single simple ribbon ability at the top that is mount-related. The number of people who write that subclass off because they just stop reading is a massive pet peeve of mine.



Because the campaign is level-limited, I was hesitant to include a subclass with even a small nerf. Modifying it to add another skill proficiency balances it to my liking, though. Pet peeve noted. :smallbiggrin:




It isn't an Evocation wizard, it's an explosives expert. It isn't Scupt Spell, it's Shape Charge.
They're not illusions, they're holograms.
It's not the magic spell revivify, it's a defibrillator
Same with all of the Ranger classes, save Primeval Guardian, and you can certainly use the Spell-less Ranger from UA.
Actually Primeval Guardian could be refluffed as a sort of mecha that folds around the character, Iron-Man-Style.
They're not warlocks with pact magic, they're soldiers with some technology. It isn't an Eldritch Blast with the Repelling Blast invocation, it's a repulsor ray. It isn't a familiar, it's a drone.



There will be mundane options for some of these, but otherwise, I'm happy with the current setup. Magical or equivalent objects are extant, still, and will compensate in some areas.



Honestly, if you're already using this system and making up a story with your imagination, you might as well use your imagination to make up a story that actually uses this system.

A different system would actually take away more from this mini-campaign than it would add. Much of the campaign revolves around why these elements are missing.


I did some work on low-magic 5e (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?543153-5e-Low-Magic-Overhaul-(Two-new-classes-and-one-new-subclasses-included!)), but it's still a bit of an iffy proposition. D&D has always relegated most of its depth to magic-users; cutting those out leaves you with a lot of the problems of rules-light systems (boring same-y combat) without the benefits (speed, room for improvising, reduced emphasis on crunch).

I'm not planning for this to have more than fifteen sessions total (assuming the players actually get to level 10 at all), and it's for that very reason. Though, my table tends to go toward martials over spellcasters regardless, just due to playstyle, so it may not be as big a change as for most tables. Mostly what we have, magic-user-wise, are paladins, rangers, and clerics.

Anyway, thanks for the link! I'll probably take a few of the changes there myself.

[Laserlight]

First campaign I ran in 5e was "all martials". Rogue, fighter, barb, open hand monk. I did not throw masses of trash (i.e. AoE targets) at them. Hit dice for healing can work. Main thing, in my estimation, is to have battlefields/ enemies that require movement. "We form a line, they form a line, we stand there and pound each other" is dull. My players liked teleporting monsters they had to chase, ducking through portals, or active environment stuff like escalators and conveyors.