Monk/Bladesinger build ideas

[CTurbo]

Ok so this is a carry over from my "ridiculous build" thread.

Thanks to some crazy stats, I'm looking for some odd but strong build ideas. One idea I had was a Monk with a 2 level Bladesinger dip. Just not sure where to take it from there.

Stats before racials are-

20, 19, 19, 17, 8, 6
20, 20, 17, 13, 8, 8
20, 18, 14, 13, 13, 10

-and I can't go higher than 20 in any stat.

I'm undecided on race, but I can't be a monster or evil race. I get a free feat at level 1. Vhuman gets 2 feats to start with.

Various race options allow me to start with 20 Dex, Wis, and Int while still having a 17 or 18 in Con or 20 Dex and Wis and 19 Int and Con.

I'll be starting at level 1 and for this idea, the first level must be Monk to start with 20 unarmored AC.

I was thinking Mobile as the free feat


So if I start Monk 1, Wizard 2 to get the basic idea off, where do I go from there? Wizard 2/Monk 18 would be great, but since ASIs/feats really aren't that important for this build with all my main stats being maxed, I was trying to think about a 3rd class to multi into. I wouldn't mind being a Monk mostly, but I do NOT want to be a Wizard with a small Monk dip. I could see maybe taking 3 Wizard levels for 2nd level spells(Shadowblade?) or 5 levels at the very most for 3rd level spells(HASTE!!) but that's it for Wizard. 2 levels would probably be more than enough.

Rogue is the most obvious 3rd class choice. 3 to 5 levels of Rogue adds quite a bit of good stuff. I could even see possibly going Monk 2, Wizard 2, and then full on Rogue from there. Well I would probably need to at least take 5 Monk levels for 2nd attack. On the flip side, I could see going Monk1, Wizard 2, Rogue 3-5, and then Monk from there.

Pretty much any class but Barbarian, Paladin, Sorcerer, Warlock, and Bard are on the table.

Battle Master or EK Fighter would be fun with or without some Rogue levels. 3, 5, 7, or 11 would be good cut off points. Of course if I took 5+ levels in Fighter, I'd stick to just 2 or 3 levels of Monk.

3-5 levels of Ranger Hunter/Gloom Stalker would be good. Again with or without some Rogue levels. Gloom Stalker is especially good if I go with a race that doesn't have darkvision.

Arcana, Knowledge, or Light Cleric would also be good. As of now, the only healer in the party is a Lore Bard.



So this is just one of the ideas I had so far, but I'm not sure about what race to go with, or which Monk subclass to take. I like Long Death and Shadow the best followed by Open Hand. Not familiar with the others.


Considering my stats, I've even thought about changing classes every 2 or 3 levels(as long as I have 5 levels in Monk, Ranger, or Fighter for 2nd attack). Since I want to be melee focused over casting, this wouldn't hurt me.

[ragnorack1]

Nice timing, had been mulling over blade singer multi classes the other day and decided if I ever managed to roll high on starting stats I'd love to give the monk/blade singer a go.

Personally my build would depend on the chances of the campaign running to level 20, if it was likely blade singer 2 monk 18 would be my choice as empty body is just that good, giving conc-less greater invisibility and bear-barian like resistances in one ability. That with blade song, shield spell and the other monk abilities would make you rediculously slippery to hit.
If it was likely to reach the mid teens I'd be tempted for blade singer 5 for haste and more slots for shield spell but it's going to take a while to you get the crucial stunning strike and that ability.

As far as monk archetype I love open hand but in this long death would be my choice to make you even harder to put down.

Only down side is your offence wouldn't be the greatest but your defense would keep you able to spit out stunning strikes till you run out of ki.

[CTurbo]

Nice timing, had been mulling over blade singer multi classes the other day and decided if I ever managed to roll high on starting stats I'd love to give the monk/blade singer a go.

Personally my build would depend on the chances of the campaign running to level 20, if it was likely blade singer 2 monk 18 would be my choice as empty body is just that good, giving conc-less greater invisibility and bear-barian like resistances in one ability. That with blade song, shield spell and the other monk abilities would make you rediculously slippery to hit.
If it was likely to reach the mid teens I'd be tempted for blade singer 5 for haste and more slots for shield spell but it's going to take a while to you get the crucial stunning strike and that ability.

As far as monk archetype I love open hand but in this long death would be my choice to make you even harder to put down.

Only down side is your offence wouldn't be the greatest but your defense would keep you able to spit out stunning strikes till you run out of ki.



Why don't you think your offense would be any good? I think Monks are under-rated in DPR. I played a solo class Long Death Monk with 20 Dex and I was one of the more damaging characters on the team. Yeah there is no offensive feat support at all for Monks but being able to make two d8+5 and one(or two) d4+5 scaling bonus action attacks every round is no slouch either. Any more DPR and Monks would be broken.



I don't believe this campaign will get anywhere near level 20. They just never do. This group is a consistent group, but we run several campaigns at once(we take turns DMing) so they all get dragged out.

I may just end up Monk 1, Wizard 2, and then go Monk from there possibly periodically sprinkling in a Wizard level here and there. If I go Long Death, I'd want to get to that 11th level ability as quick as possible. If Shadow Monk, the 11th level feature is great, but it's the level 6 feature I'm really after.

[Corran]

What's the tl;dr? Monk with a 2 lvl bladesinger dip with 1 of the 3 rolled sets?

If so, I'd start wizard for the wisdom save proficiency (because you can get evasion and absorb elements I would worry less about dex save proficiency; though it's tempting to go monk 5-6 first and then pick up the two levels in wizard). I'd pick the 1st rolled set, ie 20, 19, 19, 17, 8, 6. Mobile as the free feat (as you said). For race, something with a combined of +3 in stats (so almost certainly something giving +2 and +1; pick the one with the racial features you like the most; try to include darkvision too). That would make your starting stats 20, 20, 19, 19, 8, 6. With the first ASI you will have 4 20's, all in important stats (DEX, WIS, CON, INT). I'd put the 6 in charisma and the 8 in str (I'd still train athletics though).

[CTurbo]

Should I worry about having 2 attacks or build around spamming Booming Blade and/or Green Flame Blade? I figured Booming Blade would be pretty strong given the mobility this build would have.

[Damon_Tor]

The mobile feat is probably a waste: your AC is going to be 25, 27 if you go Kensei as your sublass. In other words, you have little to fear from opportunity attacks, and its probably a good thing if you provoke them on your turn because it wastes the enemies' reaction, freeing your party to move more freely.

In terms of leveling up your wizard class enough to get haste, I wouldn't worry about it: IIRC you have three sorcerers in the party, so someone else will be able to cast it on you if necessary.

Gnome is a good choice for save advantage. The Fade Away gnome racial perk is a solid choice as well, giving you reactive invisibility 1/short rest, and it's a half-feat as well, so you can use it to bring another stat up to 20 at level 1. If you take the 20, 19, 19, 17, 8, 6 array for example, put the 20 in Wis, a 19 Dex (+1 from racial makes 20) another 19 in Con (we'll get it to 20 later with the Durable half-feat) then put your 17 in int. Your racial takes it to 19, then the Fade Away half-feat leaves you with 20. The result is 20 Dex, 20 Wis, 20 Int and 19 con at level 1.

[Rukelnikov]

Shadow Monk 4/Bladesinger 4/EK 12

That sounds great on paper, though I'm unsure what the path there would be. M1, W2, EK5?

[CTurbo]

The mobile feat is probably a waste: your AC is going to be 25, 27 if you go Kensei as your sublass. In other words, you have little to fear from opportunity attacks, and its probably a good thing if you provoke them on your turn because it wastes the enemies' reaction, freeing your party to move more freely.

In terms of leveling up your wizard class enough to get haste, I wouldn't worry about it: IIRC you have three sorcerers in the party, so someone else will be able to cast it on you if necessary.

Gnome is a good choice for save advantage. The Fade Away gnome racial perk is a solid choice as well, giving you reactive invisibility 1/short rest, and it's a half-feat as well, so you can use it to bring another stat up to 20 at level 1. If you take the 20, 19, 19, 17, 8, 6 array for example, put the 20 in Wis, a 19 Dex (+1 from racial makes 20) another 19 in Con (we'll get it to 20 later with the Durable half-feat) then put your 17 in int. Your racial takes it to 19, then the Fade Away half-feat leaves you with 20. The result is 20 Dex, 20 Wis, 20 Int and 19 con at level 1.

I like Mobile to make up for the Gnome's 25ft speed, but I guess Monk levels take care of that of anyway.


Shadow Monk 4/Bladesinger 4/EK 12

That sounds great on paper, though I'm unsure what the path there would be. M1, W2, EK5?

If I went Shadow Monk, I would certainly at least go to Monk 6 for the teleporting. Why would I take 4 levels in Wizard? ASIs/feats aren't important at all. I have to admit though, Shadow Monk 6, Bladesinger 3, EK 11 does sound pretty good.

[Keravath]

You might want to consider picking up hunter's mark or hex depending on how you decide on stats.

The best route is probably a multiclass to ranger for 2 or 3 levels ... it will give you extra damage each turn (either collossus slayer if hunter or extra first round attack with bonus movement if gloomstalker) and hunter's mark 2 or 3/day which will be multiplied by the monk number of attacks. It will be a useful option against high hit point targets by adding up to 4d6 every turn if you use flurry of blows. Gloomstalker also gives you a route to darkvision if you start as a race without it.

PS. One of the most useful monk abilities is proficiency with all saves at level 14 ... not sure how essential you might consider that.

[Rukelnikov]

I like Mobile to make up for the Gnome's 25ft speed, but I guess Monk levels take care of that of anyway.



If I went Shadow Monk, I would certainly at least go to Monk 6 for the teleporting. Why would I take 4 levels in Wizard? ASIs/feats aren't important at all. I have to admit though, Shadow Monk 6, Bladesinger 3, EK 11 does sound pretty good.

That one does sound good, but thing is again, which order to take the levels.

[CTurbo]

1st level would be 100% Monk for sure.

Normally I would take all levels of class at once, but for this I could see going Monk 1, Wizard 2, then 4 or 5 more Monk, then maybe 1 more Wizard. THEN go to another class after I'm totally done with a Monk and Wizard.

[Rukelnikov]

1st level would be 100% Monk for sure.

Normally I would take all levels of class at once, but for this I could see going Monk 1, Wizard 2, then 4 or 5 more Monk, then maybe 1 more Wizard. THEN go to another class after I'm totally done with a Monk and Wizard.

Yeah, probably for the best, by the time you will already have a pretty good idea where you want your character to go.

[CTurbo]

So thinking more on this...

I'm really considering a Long Death Monk 18/ Bladesinger 2 build. I guess the question is when to sneak in those 2 Wizard levels.

First level will definitely be Monk, but I can't decide if I should take Wizard 2 right after that, after Monk 2, or after Monk 3. I don't want to wait later than that.
I'd probably use a spear 2 handed most of the time and then just use it 1 handed while in blade song.

Vhuman I could take Mobile and Observant and start 20 Dex, Con, and Wis and still have an 18 Int. I'd probably take Alert with Monk 4 ASI.

Damon_Tor gave me the idea of taking PAM and Warcaster and spamming Booming Blade with my reaction each time an enemy approaches me. Sounds pretty fun.

[nickl_2000]

1) Without DM rules changes you can't take bladesinger with a VHuman
2) You should definitely have a staff and spear for differences in damage type. Either way you can PAM and one hand it.
3) PAM isn't as effective on a Monk as it is on other classes since you already get a bonus action attack option. Not worthless, but not as good as other places. I would look at mobile and/or alert at level 1 instead. Especially if you want the BB option.
4) This is a crazy MAD character, but hey you have the stats for it.

As for wizard level, I would look at:
PC level 2: start as monk and then get bladesong for crazy, crazy AC. It will slow down second attack, but with bonus action unarmed strike or BB it isn't as big of a deal.
PC level 4: after you get touch of death
PC level 7: After Hour of Reaping, Magical unarmed attacks, and stunning strike
PC level 8: Get all of the above and evasion

Personally I would do level 1 monk, level 2-3 Wizard, then Monk from then onwards. That also makes the sleep spell effective for the wizard since it's still early on.

Spells you want in your book
All level 1 rituals (because ya, you want them)
Absorb Elements
Cause Fear
Charm Person
Disguise Self
Feather Fall (although this isn't as important on a monk)
Shield
Silent Image
Sleep
Tasha's
Unseen Servant

That would cover a lot of social and other situations.
You get 3 Cantrips:
1 ranged damage (chill touch, firebolt, toll the dead, etc)
2 utility cantrips (Mage Hand, Mold Earth, Friends, Gust, Minor Illusion, Shape Water)


Seems like it would be a fun character.

[CTurbo]

1) Without DM rules changes you can't take bladesinger with a VHuman
2) You should definitely have a staff and spear for differences in damage type. Either way you can PAM and one hand it.
3) PAM isn't as effective on a Monk as it is on other classes since you already get a bonus action attack option. Not worthless, but not as good as other places. I would look at mobile and/or alert at level 1 instead. Especially if you want the BB option.
4) This is a crazy MAD character, but hey you have the stats for it.

As for wizard level, I would look at:
PC level 2: start as monk and then get bladesong for crazy, crazy AC. It will slow down second attack, but with bonus action unarmed strike or BB it isn't as big of a deal.
PC level 4: after you get touch of death
PC level 7: After Hour of Reaping, Magical unarmed attacks, and stunning strike
PC level 8: Get all of the above and evasion

Personally I would do level 1 monk, level 2-3 Wizard, then Monk from then onwards. That also makes the sleep spell effective for the wizard since it's still early on.

Spells you want in your book
All level 1 rituals (because ya, you want them)
Absorb Elements
Cause Fear
Charm Person
Disguise Self
Feather Fall (although this isn't as important on a monk)
Shield
Silent Image
Sleep
Tasha's
Unseen Servant

That would cover a lot of social and other situations.
You get 3 Cantrips:
1 ranged damage (chill touch, firebolt, toll the dead, etc)
2 utility cantrips (Mage Hand, Mold Earth, Friends, Gust, Minor Illusion, Shape Water)


Seems like it would be a fun character.

Thanks for the detailed answer. I feel pretty confident that the DM would allow a non-Elf Bladesinger. Of course I would ask first. I could easily go Half-Elf and boost my dump stat to 8 while getting the 2 extra skills. Or even going full Elf would be fine with me. (kinda like the idea of being a Goliath or Half-Orc for this too)

I know the bonus action part of PAM is redundant but it would still give a relatively reliable Reaction attack. Combined with Warcaster it makes for a very powerful reaction attack.

I'm with you though I really want Mobile, Alert, AND Observant for this build. If I went full Monk with no Wizard levels, I'd almost certainly take Ritual Caster(Wiz) because it just adds so much to a Monk who can afford the feats like I can now. I also really want a familiar.


On one hand, I really want to get the 2 Wizard levels out of the way early like after Monk one, but on the other hand, I want that Long Death temp hp feature as early as possible too so I may take Bladesinger off until character level 4 and 5. I think in this situation, putting off the extra attack a couple levels won't kill me.