The....XP to level 3 effect?

[Bannan_mantis]

I've recently allowed a player into some discord dnd games and he would be fine as a player if not for one thing...he bases a lot of his knowledge and dnd opinions off XP to level 3.

Now before I start I'd like to say this: I have no problem with XP to level 3 and they produce very good content. I feel they have made good videos which I enjoy watching from time to time.

Now onto the problem. This player seems to have all his opinions on classes and characters based on XP to level 3 videos and this is honestly just very annoying. I enjoy their content but I feel they aren't the best in terms of actually giving a detailed and calculated review of a class or roleplay style and this player shows this to the fullest. First off our party consists of warlock, mystic, paladin, barbarian, rogue, bard and then him playing a wizard.

First off he already wrote off many characters from their class alone with him saying that the warlock was gunna he weak and useless, the mystic would be OP, the paladin would be terrible in terms of rp, the barbarian would be a op idiot, the rogue would be op and steal everything, the bard would be just as useless as the warlock. This is especially annoying as whenever we try to explain that those views weren't fully correct he just wouldn't listen.

Then there was play with him often keeping to these ideas in his head. Whenever the mystic or rogue did literally anything that was useful he'd go "oooo, superman's doing something." Whenever the warlock or bard tried to do anything he said that they should just wait for others to sort out everything. Whenever barbarian tried to do something he'd always act like he needs to help him like he's a child (ironic considering the barb had higher wis.) And finally whenever the paladin started to rp he would say something about "oh here comes lawful stupid." One thing that's especially annoying is that when he was proved wrong in these areas in some way he'd just deny it or say "oh sure, totally."

Now our group isn't one to just ban people instantly with us planning to talk to him but his annoying nature has me thinking. Is xp to level 3 starting a mindset around dnd a little bit like critical role is? I'd like to hear about this from other DMs to see their opinions

[Crucius]

I don't know anyone that watches that channel, and I don't personally like their content, so I have not noticed any ~effect. I think they are pushing brash memey opinions in lieu of critical analysis of a class (even though they give each class a close inspection). Which, turns out, is exactly their point. I just clicked on a random video to see if I was thinking of the correct channel and I opened the Monk video, where coincidentally, he explains that it is just his opinions and satire and all.

Assuming your player also saw that specific video, and still holds these views, that's more his personality shining through than anything else (even if his personality is 'is easily influenced and takes memey opinions as truth'). It's a good thing you are planning to talk to him, you all have the right idea! Cheers!

[Sigreid]

Literally never heard of it until this thread.

[KorvinStarmast]

Literally never heard of it until this thread.
Ditto.
OP, are you affiliated with that youtube channel?

[Wuzza]

First of the vids I clicked on had this in the description.

"this channel is just for ****posting"

Pretty much sums up from what else I saw...

[Sigreid]

Just watched one. First comment was them stating that they're just goofing for entertainment and nothing they say should be taken seriously.

[The Kool]

Never heard of it, but it sounds like you picked up a troll. Kindly leave him under the next bridge you cross, if talking to him gets you nowhere. That kind of behavior is flat out toxic and will cause the rest of your players to lose all fun and interest in the game.

[Bannan_mantis]

Never heard of it, but it sounds like you picked up a troll. Kindly leave him under the next bridge you cross, if talking to him gets you nowhere. That kind of behavior is flat out toxic and will cause the rest of your players to lose all fun and interest in the game.

I'll say that he does actually seem to care about DND with him making a character with a full backstory and then chose spells mainly for rp reasons rather than power. Plus he isn't bad in terms of his own character's actions.

Overall though his behaviour is toxic and something I am going to have to remove from the game, just hoping that doesn't mean removing him but if it comes to it then it's what must be done.

[Laserlight]

The problem isn't the channel, it's your player.

[Guy Lombard-O]

I've recently allowed a player into some discord dnd games and he would be fine as a player if not for one thing...he bases a lot of his knowledge and dnd opinions off XP to level 3.

Now before I start I'd like to say this: I have no problem with XP to level 3 and they produce very good content. I feel they have made good videos which I enjoy watching from time to time.

If opinionated and satirical guide videos are his jam (and personally, I saw a couple XP/3 videos and didn't care for them), make him watch these instead:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=00EvO-X6Wu4&list=PLDnRMnDDjAzK5uZLidDUtHtD1iN06Qe0G

They're even more satirical and just as opinionated, but at least they'll confuse him as to which classes to hate on. If that doesn't fix him (and it won't, but at least you tried) then just get rid of him.

[Yakmala]

I've watched many of their class videos. I find them amusing, but anyone who's played 5e for any length of time will quickly realize that their "reviews" are based on stereotypes of each class, not the actual reality and are more for entertainment than knowledge.

[Mith]

If opinionated and satirical guide videos are his jam (and personally, I saw a couple XP/3 videos and didn't care for them), make him watch these instead:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=00EvO-X6Wu4&list=PLDnRMnDDjAzK5uZLidDUtHtD1iN06Qe0G

They're even more satirical and just as opinionated, but at least they'll confuse him as to which classes to hate on. If that doesn't fix him (and it won't, but at least you tried) then just get rid of him.

To me, the value of Crap Guides is that they make you laugh at stereotypes of RP while pointing out that really the mechanics don't matter as much as the personality you bring to the table.

Plus I always have a soft spot for this stule of animated videos.

[PhantomSoul]

To me, the value of Crap Guides [...] Plus I always have a soft spot for this stule of animated videos.

I know "stule" was probably a typo, but when discussing "Crap Guides" I think it's magnificent and I grant you Inspiration regardless!

[FaerieGodfather]

I would have gotten rid of him during the first session if my polite warning and then my definitely not polite warning did not immediately get through to him.

[JakOfAllTirades]

If opinionated and satirical guide videos are his jam (and personally, I saw a couple XP/3 videos and didn't care for them), make him watch these instead:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=00EvO-X6Wu4&list=PLDnRMnDDjAzK5uZLidDUtHtD1iN06Qe0G

They're even more satirical and just as opinionated, but at least they'll confuse him as to which classes to hate on. If that doesn't fix him (and it won't, but at least you tried) then just get rid of him.

That's good satire, and it actually has a bit of "how to" advice buried in it here and there if you're paying attention. It's hard, with that rapid fire delivery.

My favorite D&D satirist is Bill Cavalier, Adventure Coach, aka "The Dungeon Bastard."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WmJMURIyx2w&list=PLfoLaRCAfl4d-xaryrUn7WoMYJw8LTzD1&index=2


Back on topic: Your "XP to level 3" fanboy is a serious problem. Kill his character and take his stuff. Also, tell him not to come back. Ever.

[Sigreid]

I enjoy Puffin Forrest https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=10&v=kjLXuKHkKxE

[Tvtyrant]

I've recently allowed a player into some discord dnd games and he would be fine as a player if not for one thing...he bases a lot of his knowledge and dnd opinions off XP to level 3.

Now before I start I'd like to say this: I have no problem with XP to level 3 and they produce very good content. I feel they have made good videos which I enjoy watching from time to time.

Now onto the problem. This player seems to have all his opinions on classes and characters based on XP to level 3 videos and this is honestly just very annoying. I enjoy their content but I feel they aren't the best in terms of actually giving a detailed and calculated review of a class or roleplay style and this player shows this to the fullest. First off our party consists of warlock, mystic, paladin, barbarian, rogue, bard and then him playing a wizard.

First off he already wrote off many characters from their class alone with him saying that the warlock was gunna he weak and useless, the mystic would be OP, the paladin would be terrible in terms of rp, the barbarian would be a op idiot, the rogue would be op and steal everything, the bard would be just as useless as the warlock. This is especially annoying as whenever we try to explain that those views weren't fully correct he just wouldn't listen.

Then there was play with him often keeping to these ideas in his head. Whenever the mystic or rogue did literally anything that was useful he'd go "oooo, superman's doing something." Whenever the warlock or bard tried to do anything he said that they should just wait for others to sort out everything. Whenever barbarian tried to do something he'd always act like he needs to help him like he's a child (ironic considering the barb had higher wis.) And finally whenever the paladin started to rp he would say something about "oh here comes lawful stupid." One thing that's especially annoying is that when he was proved wrong in these areas in some way he'd just deny it or say "oh sure, totally."

Now our group isn't one to just ban people instantly with us planning to talk to him but his annoying nature has me thinking. Is xp to level 3 starting a mindset around dnd a little bit like critical role is? I'd like to hear about this from other DMs to see their opinions
As the issue is bullying I would sit him down and explain that a running commentary belittling other players is not okay, and that he needs to let others participate and enjoy the game. If he can't or won't change after that, dump him from the group.

[sandman102]

I watch XP to Level 3, they put some out funny videos.

But it's short form entertainment with boiled down views of the classes (they aren't guides as much as they are roasts), so if a Player is taking them as law, then I don't think the Player gets the core understanding of D&D is to create stories and have fun. A rogue can steal better, but that doesn't mean a Player has to steal when playing as a rogue.

Even in XP to Level 3 videos, they say as much that the Paladin doesn't have to play to Lawful Good, so maybe he didn't watch them well... idk.

I would talk to the Player and try to convince him to give him and the others the freedom to play the game.

[Alfgar]

The issue is not the 'Xp to level 3' effect. He could watch any D&D video and then take from it something to 'justify' why he treats other characters poorly. 'Xp to level 3' just provides him with the rationalization to be what he is: a self-involved jerk.

[Jerrykhor]

That's good satire, and it actually has a bit of "how to" advice buried in it here and there if you're paying attention. It's hard, with that rapid fire delivery.

My favorite D&D satirist is Bill Cavalier, Adventure Coach, aka "The Dungeon Bastard."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WmJMURIyx2w&list=PLfoLaRCAfl4d-xaryrUn7WoMYJw8LTzD1&index=2


Back on topic: Your "XP to level 3" fanboy is a serious problem. Kill his character and take his stuff. Also, tell him not to come back. Ever.

Yeah I enjoyed Dungeon Bastard too, what happened to him? Seems to have stopped making videos. His content mostly seem to be based off 3.5e

Count me in with everyone else who has not heard of XP to level 3.

[Zhorn]

Yep, not XP to level 3's fault, just a player with a bit of rotten gunk in them.

You can offer to help them cut the gunk out, but you can't help someone who doesn't want to be helped.
If they're not willing to adjust their behaviour, then it's for the best of the group to politely (and firmly) request that they leave.

While Colville is covering a different root cause in the recent video...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JoYR3eCFqoA... he has a quote I rather like for these kind of players (~4:20)
"when you exhibit toxic behaviour, you're making the game a zero-sum game. You enjoyment is coming at the expense of someone else's misery"

[Arkhios]

It would appear that the following two dots between your player's mind and the show didn't connect:


XP to level 3's statement of just goofing around and not to be taken seriously
the player's own mindset.

[Zanthy1]

"Hey wizard buddy, what is the shape of Italy?"

"A boot!"

Get the troll outta there

[MilkmanDanimal]

They're vaguely amusing videos, I've watched a number of them. But . . . they're just amusing. Relying on them as the proverbial D&D Bible is silly, and . . . maybe rephrase this the "Hey, this player is an idiot" effect instead.

[LordEntrails]

As others have said, talk to them out of character. Tell them their behavior of belittle other characters is not acceptable and that their are many ways to play and to enjoy the game and if he doesn't like the way your group plays then you will have to part ways. Given him a suggestion or two of where he might find a group that will appreciate his style more.

[Sigreid]

As others have said, talk to them out of character. Tell them their behavior of belittle other characters is not acceptable and that their are many ways to play and to enjoy the game and if he doesn't like the way your group plays then you will have to part ways. Given him a suggestion or two of where he might find a group that will appreciate his style more.

Well, this is somewhat group dependent. It's not unheard of for me to tell our party's Arcane Archer, who does tremendous damage and rarely misses that he sucks when he does miss. But we've all been playing together for years and everyone knows that's just me being ridiculous.

[The Kool]

"when you exhibit toxic behaviour, you're making the game a zero-sum game. You enjoyment is coming at the expense of someone else's misery"

Negative-sum, usually. It often comes at the expense of everyone else's misery.

[OverLordOcelot]

It's possible that he thinks he's just joking around and thinks everyone is in on the fun, some people are really oblivious. And sometimes the only tool someone has learned for coping with the stress of being in a new group is cutting people down. There are also groups that get along by mocking each other constantly, and he may be used to that. I worked with a group for years that would seem absolutely toxic to outsiders with how often we would shout at and insult each other, but it was just the way we worked; we actually all enjoyed the environment just fine.

I definitely think that sitting down and explaining that he's actually a drag on the group, and that he needs to stop the 'xp to level 3' schtick because it's wearing everyone out is a good idea. If he is just misguided, then he gets a simple wakeup call and you all can have a fun game. If he isn't and you made it clear that the behavior isn't good for your group, then you don't have to worry that there's a misunderstanding when you tell him he's not welcome once he continues it. It can be hard to sit down and have the conversation, but it clears up all of the ambiguity and gives the best chance of the guy realizing he's screwing up. Also you don't have to be 'zero tolerance' about it, if he stops but occasionally slips back it's probably a sign that he's used to it but trying to cut it out, not that he's trying to see what he can get away with.

[Guy Lombard-O]

I've recently allowed a player into some discord dnd games and he would be fine as a player if not for one thing...

Out of curiosity, how is he an otherwise fine player? He just sounds teeth-clenchingly obnoxious and insulting, to the point that I'd probably try to ensure his character's demise through battlefield control shenanigans if I were one of the other players. And I'd definitely conspire to vote him off the island.

But how does he actually play? Is he a controller/debuffer? Does he buff the other characters and actually fill a support role himself? Does he act an ass to all the NPCs as well, or is it only the other PCs he's trolling?

Not that I really think he's salvageable, nor that I would be inclined to try. But I have to ask just what his character is actually doing that qualifies him as a potentially "fine" player?

[Wildarm]

Seems like you have plenty of players at your table. I’d give him a warning for toxic comments and give him the boot if he does it again. D&D is a game where everyone should have fun but not at the expense of others.

Be sure to have his PC meet some appropriate end in game in the session after that.

[Galithar]

I would suggest watching this video, or more importantly bring it up to him and see if he'll watch it. It talks about 'beating the Matt Mercer effect' (Though XP to level 3 is mentioned in passing so one point) and while it's not really advice on how to deal with it, it is a sound and logical explanation on WHY you want to beat it and really just what matters in a game of D&D which boils down to everyone having fun.


https://youtu.be/Ze4LyCmEDIg