Question about Martial Training on non-initiators.

[death390]

So the Feat Chain for Martial Training 1 just lets you pick up two maneuvers, but Martial Training 2+ has this "You must meet the minimum initiator level to select any maneuver." does this mean that since your initiator level is = # of levels in Initiator class + 1/2 Non-Initiator class levels that numbers 3-6 are basically useless? minimum initiator levels are 1, 6, 10, 14, 18, 22 for any character that doesn't want to multiclass into initiator levels? i mean it looks fairly straight forward. you have to wait till level 3 to get the first MT feat anyway but subsequent ones you can pick up as early as lvls 5, 7, 9, 11. 13 if you have the ability to get such a feat at that level. but due to the initiator level caveat you can only get lower power abilities, and can't get lvl 6 initiator abilities at all?

i mean getting lvl 3 and 6 gets you the first 2 initiator level abilities at an ok level, but having to wait till lvl 10 for lvl3 maneuvers, or 12 for lvl4s seems like a waste at that point. the effects are not really effective at that point. i mean 2-5d6 at lvl 10 is incredibly weak for a spellcasting analouge. let alonge 4-10d6 for lvl 18, hell rouge sneak attack outstrips it only hitting once in a round.

[torrasque666]

Thing you may have missed with regards to Martial Training and its derivatives is this:
Your martialinitiator level [for] maneuvers granted by this feat (and subsequent Martial Training feats) is equal to half your character level + your attribute modifier that modifies your chosen discipline for use with this discipline (example, Dexterity for a discipline that uses Acrobatics), not to exceed your character level.

Emphasis mine. So this means that if you use Martial Training to take Broken Blade, your Initiator Level is 1/2 HD + Dex, capping at HD. So if you take it at level 3 (the earliest you can take it due to requirements), your IL is 1+Dex. So Most of your IL will come from your ability mod, instead of levels. Otherwise, why would they have a feat that gives 6th level maneuvers, when 6th level maneuvers require IL 11, which you wouldn't be able to get if only going by HD?

[Eldaran]

Thing you may have missed with regards to Martial Training and its derivatives is this:

Emphasis mine. So this means that if you use Martial Training to take Broken Blade, your Initiator Level is 1/2 HD + Dex, capping at HD. So if you take it at level 3 (the earliest you can take it due to requirements), your IL is 1+Dex. So Most of your IL will come from your ability mod, instead of levels. Otherwise, why would they have a feat that gives 6th level maneuvers, when 6th level maneuvers require IL 11, which you wouldn't be able to get if only going by HD?

That got errataed, you now choose a mental stat to use as your initiation modifier.

[torrasque666]

That got errataed, you now choose a mental stat to use as your initiation modifier.

Huh. Thanks for the update. The rest of the post seems to be valid though, at least the important bit.