A hypothetical fighter occurrence

[Dualswinger]

Apologies. This seemed a bit long for the raw thread.

We have a level 20 fighter samurai facing down a big beastie. Our fighter has but 1 hit point remaining.

It’s his turn. He uses his tireless spirit as a bonus action, granting him advantage UNTIL THE END OF THE CURRENT TURN.

He makes attacks 1,2,3 and 4, before declaring an action surge, making attacks 5,6,7,and 8. He then uses movement to provoke an attack of opportunity from the enemy. This attack deals over 16 points of damage, reducing him to zero hp, and he declares that he will use “strength before death” to take another turn.

Said turn uses his other action surge to makes attacks 9-16, and he uses the bonus action for a second wind. He then ends the bonus turn, finishes moving, and ends the original turn.

Would attacks 9-16 still retain advantage from the original turn’s Tireless Spirit?

[Darc_Vader]

I would say no, since it’s specifically a separate turn, but I could see it being ruled either way. The ability also doesn’t say what happens in the case that something with multiple attacks knocks you out on the first; do they continue their turn after your bonus one, or does this ability actually end their turn? Depends on how the DM interprets ‘interrupt’ in both cases.

[Unoriginal]

Since it's a separate turn, all effects that last 1 turn wouldn't apply on the second.

It also means that if they were under an effect that had a "X happens at the end of target's turn" condition, it would happen for both turns.

[Man_Over_Game]

I'm with Unoriginal on this one.

There's actually no mention of what happens to the original turn. I'd interpret that Strength Before Death ends whatever turn it interrupts, which could be a tactical advantage when you stop the BBEG from using more than one of his Multiattacks.

[Puh Laden]

I'm with Unoriginal on this one.

There's actually no mention of what happens to the original turn. I'd interpret that Strength Before Death ends whatever turn it interrupts, which could be a tactical advantage when you stop the BBEG from using more than one of his Multiattacks.

Had to look this up: Strength Before Death uses your reaction, and the rules for reactions says that when the reaction is over the turn that it interrupted continues.

[Man_Over_Game]

Had to look this up: Strength Before Death uses your reaction, and the rules for reactions says that when the reaction is over the turn that it interrupted continues.

Well, that just complicates things, doesn't it?

[Bjarkmundur]

This thread smells like 4e xD

[Darc_Vader]

Had to look this up: Strength Before Death uses your reaction, and the rules for reactions says that when the reaction is over the turn that it interrupted continues.

In that case I guess since the turn you’re interrupting is your own, then technically you would still have advantage by RAW because the original turn hasn’t ended yet. If I was DMing I’d want to say no as a knee-jerk reaction, but they are using pretty much all of their resources to nova hard, so it’s probably less unbalanced than it looks at a glance.

[MaxWilson]

Well, that just complicates things, doesn't it?

Another scenario that presents the same dilemma is when an enemy Readied Action goes off in the middle of your turn, perhaps after you active Advantage but before you make your 8 attacks. I wouldn't want the player to lose their advantage on a technicality, but it's also unnatural to say that they get advantage on their second turn, so I think my ruling here would be "regardless of the wording of Tireless Spirit, treat Tireless Spirit as giving you advantage for all attacks on that turn." You get advantage on all of your first 8 attacks but not on your second 8 attacks, unless you uses your second bonus action on Tireless Spirit instead of Second Wind.

I.e. the fairest way to deal with this corner-case is to jettison arguments over RAW jargon, follow the Principle of Least Surprise, and just rule the ability to work the way a new player would expect.

[Man_Over_Game]

Another scenario that presents the same dilemma is when an enemy Readied Action goes off in the middle of your turn, perhaps after you active Advantage but before you make your 8 attacks. I wouldn't want the player to lose their advantage on a technicality, but it's also unnatural to say that they get advantage on their second turn, so I think my ruling here would be "regardless of the wording of Tireless Spirit, treat Tireless Spirit as giving you advantage for all attacks on that turn." You get advantage on all of your first 8 attacks but not on your second 8 attacks, unless you uses your second bonus action on Tireless Spirit instead of Second Wind.

I.e. the fairest way to deal with this corner-case is to jettison arguments over RAW jargon, follow the Principle of Least Surprise, and just rule the ability to work the way a new player would expect.

That's a fair argument. I'd probably rule it as the same as you did, and I'd probably expect a new player to see it the same way. The only reason it wouldn't work that way is because of a technicality.

[Darc_Vader]

That’s definitely the most sensible way to run it, and is probably the intended interaction between the two abilities. At least as much as intentionally triggering an AoO to K.O. yourself during your own turn was even considered when writing them.

[MaxWilson]

That’s definitely the most sensible way to run it, and is probably the intended interaction between the two abilities. At least as much as intentionally triggering an AoO to K.O. yourself during your own turn was even considered when writing them.

Wouldn't have to be an AoO--attacking yourself would have the same effect, minus one attack out of sixteen.

Random question: how many DMs here would refuse to grant advantage to attacks on yourself? E.g. a dominated enemy Rogue attempting to cut his own throat at advantage with Sneak Attack because he's ordered to. Obviously RAW does not require it, but would you refuse to grant advantage even if it was requested?

[Legendairy]

Wouldn't have to be an AoO--attacking yourself would have the same effect, minus one attack out of sixteen.

Random question: how many DMs here would refuse to grant advantage to attacks on yourself? E.g. a dominated enemy Rogue attempting to cut his own throat at advantage with Sneak Attack because he's ordered to. Obviously RAW does not require it, but would you refuse to grant advantage even if it was requested?

I would give the advantage, you aren’t guarding/parrying/changing positions, you know it’s coming and in the case of being magically forced I would definitely allow it

Edit to remove second point.