How to keep players from destroying my plot

[Redhood101]

Almost my entire plot revolves around this magic gemstone. The villain is looking for the stone for reasons unknown to the players. They find it in the first session and the villains start tracking them down for it. I’d keep making references to the fact that it is seen as one of the most powerful items in the world. But now one knows how to use its power. My problem is... what if the players just hand it to the villain? They could give it to the king or drop it in the ocean or even sell it and I could make plans around that. But how do I keep them from just handing it to the villain. (The villain doesn’t care about its magic power he just needs it to resolve his curse but the players don’t know that)

[DeTess]

Almost my entire plot revolves around this magic gemstone. The villain is looking for the stone for reasons unknown to the players. They find it in the first session and the villains start tracking them down for it. I’d keep making references to the fact that it is seen as one of the most powerful items in the world. But now one knows how to use its power. My problem is... what if the players just hand it to the villain? They could give it to the king or drop it in the ocean or even sell it and I could make plans around that. But how do I keep them from just handing it to the villain. (The villain doesn’t care about its magic power he just needs it to resolve his curse but the players don’t know that)

Since the villain won't blow up the world if the players just hand it over, why is it 'wrong' for them to do so? Once you've answered that question, find a way to communicate it to your players.

Alternatively, craft a way to run with it if the players hand it over. Maybe the villain is sympathetic enough uncursed and recruits the players to help him deal with the curser?

[PhoenixPhyre]

Cheap answer: don't set up things that detailed in advance. Players are really really good about wrecking carefully-laid plans, including by accident.

Slightly more helpful answer: telegraph things heavily. Make it crystal clear that the villain's plans are BAD for things the characters care about. Subtlety is lost in translation most of the time. Have him (or his goons) torture people on camera (so to speak) for information. Make sure they know that the gem is essential to those BAD PLANS.

[VonKaiserstein]

You could always have it fuse with one of them, or provide it with some benefit that they'll want to keep. Even a small bonus, or if it psychically asks for help will probably get them to hold onto it.

You could even let it increase the bearers AC by 1, and call it plot armor, if your players don't mind really obvious hints.

[Rukelnikov]

My first long lasting campaign had a similar plot, and one of my players did exactly that, he handled it to one of the villain's minions.

I had the PCs chase the evil party afterwards to prevent them from using it in a ritual, and they had a showdown (with EXTREME luck on the side of the PCs, surprise attack was a threat to kill and one shotted the BBEG, the rest of the party with the gem in their power was still a pretty hard encounter though)

[Man_Over_Game]

You could also provide incentive for the players to not hand over the gem. Maybe some kind of wealthy benefactor rewards them for keeping the gem safe. Make it a magic item, scrolls, a stroll through his magical library, whatever.

Plot Twist: This is the guy that created the curse.

[Rukelnikov]

You could always have it fuse with one of them, or provide it with some benefit that they'll want to keep. Even a small bonus, or if it psychically asks for help will probably get them to hold onto it.

You could even let it increase the bearers AC by 1, and call it plot armor, if your players don't mind really obvious hints.

The PC in the campaign I told about had the gem (actually an artifact made by Mystra) fused with him, and it granted him, among other things, Wish at will at a stupidly reduced cost. He still turned himself in.

[Sexyshoeless]

Well, why would they hand it to the villain? Why is it bad for them to hand it over?

These are questions you want to make sure the players have answers to. If the logical thing for them to do from their perspective is give it over when that is actually not good, then there has been an information gap. Give the players the perspective they need to make a decision that makes sense for the story. Let them understand the consequences of their decision. Hey, give me the gem, I wish to cure my disease. Oh wait, doesn't this guy have a history of being a grade A wangrod? It's a "GOTCHA" moment in poor taste if the party has NO indication that the person they are helping with the artifact is at least a little fishy.

Secondly, you need to answer what is the consequence of them handing it over. Why is that bad for the plot? So many stories revolve around the heroes scrambling to fix their own goof up. SO what if the villain cures their curse and rises to power? Now you have a campaign centered around shutting him/her back down, or finding a way to reverse/counter the gem's effects. At the end of the day you can't predict what they will do, but it can sure be fun when they do the ridiculous/unexpected.

Third, just talk to your players OOC. Make sure you are all on the same page about the kind of story you want to tell. Is this a heroic MacGuffin story? Then the party will know they have to keep the artifact safe from those who would do ill with it. Is it a morally grey story about a bunch of scoundrels? THen these are the type to hand it over if given incentive, either of safety or coin.
Look into the party's backgrounds/motivations and use that to both predict what they would want/do and give them pieces to motivate them to want/do what you want.

[DMThac0]

As was pointed out: Make sure you know, and your players know, that there is a clear success and failure state for your game.

If the villain obtains the gem it's a failure, but how/why is it a failure. Common endings are good starting points to elaborate from. Is it an end of the world failure, is it a failure where some bad creature is released, is it the villain obtaining a cataclysmic power or ability? Knowing how/why it's a failure state will allow you to tailor information in your game to help your players realize that the villain can not have the gem.

Once you get that information figure out, it's time to give your players the information. However, as I have told every DM I've ever trained: your players are dumb. They're dumb because they only know what you tell them. You can drop a dozen subtle hints in one game session but those hints won't mean a thing because your players don't have context. You have to give them a few giant blinking signs that say "This is a clue, this is important, remember this!" and then you can start to sprinkle in the subtle hints. Mix both of them in as the game goes on, an NPC who has a book that gives them some back story about the gem, then have a minion of the villain subtly try to convince them to part with the gem. Have a lieutenant of the villain interrogate an npc the players interacted with, and later have them run into an item that, with some creativity, they can use to help hide the gem.

Lastly, don't plan every step of the story, it'll never work the way you want it to. Instead break down the story into key events that you feel need to happen for the villain to succeed in their goal. You can then take those key events and use them anywhere. The villain needs to acquire an artifact that will allow them to cleanse the gem. You want that artifact to be in a lost temple in a swamp but the players decide to head to the frozen tundra because they heard rumor about a mage tower. Well....now the artifact is in the mage tower, the players are none the wiser that you changed the location, you still get to move the plot forward, and all you have to to is change a couple things to make it work. The plot can survive the players because you aren't bound to specific locations, just specific key moments.

[Segev]

The gem isn't all the villain needs, obviously, so there's time after the villain gets it from them (if they hand it over at the earliest opportunity) for them to learn what he's up to and determine they must stop it.

[Temperjoke]

Alright, so one of the first rules is that the only way to ensure that players don't ruin your plot is to railroad them completely. Of course, you'll likely end up playing by yourself so you might want to abandon that idea.

You have to look at things from the players' perspective. This guy wants/needs this item to end his curse sounds relatively innocent on the surface. Is he threatening the players, or has he attempted to bribe them? Threatening them might be enough to make them not want to give it to him. If the villain's curse is broken, what happens? Do the players have any idea how bad that is? You might want to establish that for them. Maybe they overhear people in a tavern idly talking about how it's lucky that the curse has held this guy in check?

Either way, you shouldn't plan too far in advance. I'd figure out just a couple of broad points for the direction and not worry about the details until it gets there.

[Keravath]

From the sound of it, in your campaign, it is not necessarily the end of the world if the characters happen to hand over the item. The villain wants to use it to remove a curse on themselves. This is really good motivation for the villain to want to recover it. However, there is no story tie in as to why keeping the curse is good for everyone else or why removing it would be bad. This could just be the opening act, where the villain just hasn't had much chance to enact any plans due to the curse ... in essence they don't really become the villain until after they acquire to gem, remove the curse, and are free to pursue whatever actions they wish.

There are dozens of ways to keep roughly the same logical plot but adapt to the player decisions. Keep in mind that this likely isn't the only villain and these aren't the only adventurers. If a plot gets sidetracked then adapt and add another or put in a twist that brings things back to the original plot.

In the case you have described, the players don't appear to know they have an item that is of significant interest to someone and they don't seem to know why they should or should not keep it. You should consider some in-game knowledge, encounter, experience to give them some information. Perhaps they capture an agent of the villain trying to recover the gem ... maybe this person knows that the villain is desperate for it but not why. Also, unless you give the players a really good reason not to give it up, AND the characters have an in-character motivation to hang onto it .. then they still might decide to give it, trade it or sell it.

As an example, an evil party might decide to either join the villain or assassinate him steal his plan to power if it seems good. A neutral or chaotic party could decide to just give it up since they don't really care about what might happen to others and if "the dude is offering good lootz" it might be worth it. Why does their character care about what happens to some peons in some other city or country? You might be able to convince a Lawful Good character to hang onto it but they might have to weigh up what the lesser evil might be if there is a cost in hanging onto it.

Anyway, the bottom line is to try not to assume the characters will do what you want but to set up the scene, factors, NPCs, their actions and motivations and then let the characters interact with it and let the chips fall where they might. If armageddon is on the line and the characters know about it and it matters to them then they are more likely to do what you expect :) ... but don't railroad :)

[LordEntrails]

Your problem is:

my plot

Do your players know its your plot? Do they know that you have a set story to tell and they are just pawns in it? And that at best they are inspirations and minor variables in your story to add some spice and creativity where you haven't yet thought of that detail?

Or, maybe that's not what you mean by "my plot"?
Instead, set up events, conditions and people in your world. Don't have any preconceived notions of what will or won't happen. Sure, you know what's likely to happen, but the players are going to change that, they are forces to be reckoned with. Nobody know how though, their is no destiny or pre-ordained events, only plans that players will see to the end, or trash with a moments ignorance!

That's what makes the story of an RPG unique, the interactions of multiple people with various incomplete understandings.

I once had a player drop a fireball on himself in a tavern full of innocents, because he thought I said they were blocking his way out of the tavern when I meant they were blocking his way in. Afterwards did we retcon it? Nope. Did it totally screw with the plans and events I had prepared? Absolutely. And it became a key event that shaped the rest of the campaign even though none of us could have ever foresaw it.

[Jamesps]

But how do I keep them from just handing it to the villain. (The villain doesn’t care about its magic power he just needs it to resolve his curse but the players don’t know that)

That would be awesome. Have you not thought about how awesome that would be?

It's a little extra work, but maybe just think about what would happen to the world if the villain /did/ get ahold of your Maguffin.

[SirGraystone]

There's a few possibility, show how dangerous the artifact really is.

Sage : "This gem was use in the civil war of the kingdom of Serdum"
PC: "Where is that kingdom?"
Sage : "It was on a island to the south"
PC: "But there's no island to the south"
Sage : "Not anymore no"

Have the gem be sentient with a plan on its own.

Let the Villain have the gem and lift the curse and find another plot

[VonKaiserstein]

@ Rubelnikov

Oh your gods.:smallbiggrin: Those players cut a reduced cost Wish stone out of themselves to give to an evil guy? LoL, yeah.

That just goes to show that no plot can be player proofed. Mine recently were supposed to protect a young lady from a vampire lord- and gleefully traded her for a few rubies, then helped the vampire rough them up to prove they'd been beaten. No DM is ever really ready for everything a group of players can throw at them.

[Man_Over_Game]

Amen to that. Had the starting village get rained down on by flaming rocks. A couple of heroes step out of a portal while acting very uncaring about the village burning nearby. My players decided that, instead of beseeching the heroes for aid, or helping the town itself, that the best course of action was to beg the heroes for a quest.

The heroes were irritated, didn't want anything to do with the players and their begging, and gave them a "mission" to get a mop, a bucket, a net, and an anchor (in a landlocked village). My players gladly did so.

It was the most frustrating thing I've ever experienced as a DM. A group of players who'd happily play a game of I-Spy to find worthless junk, for people who are obviously trying to waste your time, while flaming rain pours down on the locals and burns them alive.

[jdolch]

I think it is a common mistake for new DMs to singlehandedly tell a story and forget that playing D&D is collaborative.

Don't create a Story, create a World and a Starting Point. Few things ruin the fun as fast as the player getting the feeling that they are on tracks or being violently shoehorned into a certain way of acting. I had, for example, the experience where a DM wanted to instill a sense of terror into the players and so he created every possible encounter as an unwinnable scenario. In his head that lead to a very haunting experience. What actually happened then was that I didn't feel dread or haunted, i felt bored and upset. Why does he let me create a Striker Character and then tells me I can never fight because I would just die. That's stupid.

So
1. Don't go to elaborate in the Story. The Players will not do what you want them to do and if you force them (even slightly) it'll ruin the game.
2. Just Roll with the Punches. Create a World so you have some Idea what can logically happen if the Players do XYZ.

[Honest Tiefling]

The gem isn't all the villain needs, obviously, so there's time after the villain gets it from them (if they hand it over at the earliest opportunity) for them to learn what he's up to and determine they must stop it.

This is good advice, because NO plot survive contact with the player characters. Even those not trying to be silly or trollish often veer wildly from your plans.

However, I can think of one way to make sure they won't give over the gem: The BBEG tries to steal it from them. Or rather, a minion trying to get back into the villian's good graces. The attempt is likely botched due to it only being a minion without full support of their liege, but the BBEG indirectly tried to steal from them. I guarantee that the party will do everything in it's power to keep the BBEG from THEIR loot.

[Sigreid]

Let's be real here. Give nearly any party a gem that is supposed to be a powerful magic item of unspecified abilities that no one knows how to use and they'll do 1 of 2 things. Either they will try to keep it and figure it out, being ticked when they can't, or sell it to the highest bidder.

[Yakmala]

No matter what they do, act like that's what you planned for them to do all along. They will amazed at how prepared you were for every contingency!

You can always bang your head against the wall after everyone has gone home.

[darknite]

Easy. Don't create a plot your players can destroy. The story is about them. As you write your arc understand that the players will subvert your expectations and not do things that neatly fit your narrative.

Prepare for this with some contingencies and keep things open ended so you can adapt the story as it goes. Think of outcomes that happen if B, C & D happen - they don't have to be fully fleshed out, just guides as to what would happen next and how it effects the A story line.

[Tanarii]

There are two solutions to stopping players from destroying your plot as a DM:
- stop using plots
- stop using players, write a book instead

[DMThac0]

There are two solutions to stopping players from destroying your plot as a DM:
- stop using plots
- stop using players, write a book instead

Ah yes, the plotless game where the players do whatever they want and the bad guy doesn't know he's bad until the players say he's bad. The goal of the bad guy doesn't exist until the players say what that goal is, and the end of the adventure doesn't happen until the players say it's happened!

In a simple way it's true though, if you don't want a plot ruined then D&D will always be annoying in that respect. There are more ways the players can derail, destroy, or otherwise not follow the plot as you imagined it would go. As the meme says: all D&D games start with the expectation of being an epic journey like Lord of the Rings and end up being something more like Monty Python and the Holy Grail with everything going sideways.

[PhoenixPhyre]

In a simple way it's true though, if you don't want a plot ruined then D&D will always be annoying in that respect. There are more ways the players can derail, destroy, or otherwise not follow the plot as you imagined it would go. As the meme says: all D&D games start with the expectation of being an epic journey like Lord of the Rings and end up being something more like Monty Python and the Holy Grail with everything going sideways.

I've taken to designing my adventure arcs (mini-campaigns) as a house of cards/bunch of dominoes. The PCs can do anything, but as soon as they do something, the whole thing snowballs. This amplifies their actions and then forces them to react to the world, and it goes back and forth. Usually ends up way different than I had guessed, but fun was had all along the way.

Things like a fragile balance of power, multiple factions with different interests, magical events (like a ward that starts failing as soon as they start looting barrows and starts releasing undead), etc. are key. This also lets me plan only about a session out as far as details--the rest is just figuring out what the underlying tensions are. It's not a true sandbox, but more of a site-based adventure. There are plots going on and the party has a mission, but that's largely an excuse to get them on site and meddling.

[Rukelnikov]

Ah yes, the plotless game where the players do whatever they want and the bad guy doesn't know he's bad until the players say he's bad. The goal of the bad guy doesn't exist until the players say what that goal is, and the end of the adventure doesn't happen until the players say it's happened!

In a simple way it's true though, if you don't want a plot ruined then D&D will always be annoying in that respect. There are more ways the players can derail, destroy, or otherwise not follow the plot as you imagined it would go. As the meme says: all D&D games start with the expectation of being an epic journey like Lord of the Rings and end up being something more like Monty Python and the Holy Grail with everything going sideways.

The plotless can go more or less like this:

There are 4 states all vying to get the Lion's share of a recently discovered ancient magical city, each doing its own thing to further their research/gathering of relics, while undermining the others, and fighting off the plagues that were set off when it was discovered. What do you do?

[Aimeryan]

If you want your players to follow a plot you have two choices - be really good at managing plot derailment or get the players on board and be cooperative, because it is far too easy to derailed.

With the latter, sometimes you goof and there is a good reason they would not otherwise follow the plot - in that case you may just need to say to your players 'Guys, sorry, plot this way'. Sometimes the players are just oblivious to what should be obvious plot hooks - again, point them in the right direction (out of game if necessary). Players that want to follow a plot will do so. Players that don't, wont and fighting to keep them on track is a constant chore.

It is the same with the campaign modules; players can and sometimes will by pure accident derail the plot - if they want to carry on with the module they have to get back on those rails. If you can do that without needing them to buy in then great, otherwise just ask them to.

That isn't to say there are not things an experienced/creative DM can not do to manage plot derailment. One thing you can do is have small but isolated minor plots with super obvious hooks ready at hand to buy you time; the players are in a city, they go past an alley and hear a scream, que whatever minor plot you want (assassin's guild, murder mystery, sewer creatures, etc.). Then, in between sessions, you can rewrite or come up with new hooks to get them back on track with the main plot. Having a handful of these always on hand is a good idea.

Another thing you can do is leave 'lore' clues lying around, so they have a direction to go in. Again, having a handful of these on hand is usually a good idea.

[crookedtree]

Have the villain start off doing something hostile. Don't have the villain do something rational like just ask for it. Have the villain send an assassin or try to steal it or something like that. People don't like doing nice things for people who tried to kill them.

[wilhelmdubdub]

"Yes And.."
If they do that, you haven't told them what it does. Make up something that keeps the story going. Maybe the bad guy gives them a reward, or the the good guys them told them they have to make up for it now or the world will end. As a DM keep the veil thin so you can improvise on the fly. It's shared storytelling. If that's what they do than go with it to keep the fun going.

[Themrys]

Almost my entire plot revolves around this magic gemstone. The villain is looking for the stone for reasons unknown to the players. They find it in the first session and the villains start tracking them down for it. I’d keep making references to the fact that it is seen as one of the most powerful items in the world. But now one knows how to use its power. My problem is... what if the players just hand it to the villain? They could give it to the king or drop it in the ocean or even sell it and I could make plans around that. But how do I keep them from just handing it to the villain. (The villain doesn’t care about its magic power he just needs it to resolve his curse but the players don’t know that)

So why exactly is the villain a villain? How is he evil? Does he have to be evil?

If they hand the gem over after the villain threatens them, you can always say that the villain uses it to resolve his curse, realizes that they are a group of adventurers who could easily just have killed him, and is so humbled by their generosity towards a guy who threatened to kill them, no less, that he rewards them. And gives back the gem. Then you pretend to have always intended it to end that way.

You only need a plan for what to do when this happens too early on and you wanted them to fight the villain more.

[Sigreid]

"Yes And.."
If they do that, you haven't told them what it does. Make up something that keeps the story going. Maybe the bad guy gives them a reward, or the the good guys them told them they have to make up for it now or the world will end. As a DM keep the veil thin so you can improvise on the fly. It's shared storytelling. If that's what they do than go with it to keep the fun going.
I've seen this episode of Puffin Forrest.

[GlenSmash!]

I also try to avoid thinking in terms of "plot".

As a DM I provide Players with scenarios. They choose what their characters do in said scenario, we use rules to resolve uncertainty (if necessary), and I narrate the result of the characters' actions.

Then we move on to the next scenario.

In this way I never worry about "ruining" anything, I just try to think of ways to make the outcome always interesting for everyone regardless of wrath they choose.

So I would be thinking of what's the worst that could happen if they did give the gem to the Villain, and how to foreshadow that to the players.

[DMThac0]

The plotless can go more or less like this:

There are 4 states all vying to get the Lion's share of a recently discovered ancient magical city, each doing its own thing to further their research/gathering of relics, while undermining the others, and fighting off the plagues that were set off when it was discovered. What do you do?

However, that's a bit of a goofy thing: the plot is that there are 4 vying states that you are now dropped in the middle of. It's not so much "you must help a state" as the plot as it is "magical city is important and states are at war" is the plot.

No, the players aren't forced to participate in the plot, just like if you made the plot "Evil bad guy is trying to destroy the world" and the players don't involve themselves. In both instances the players are very capable of denying the plot and doing whatever they want. The only difference is that the plot of "world destruction" has a more immediate failure state that players tend to avoid....death.

[Rukelnikov]

However, that's a bit of a goofy thing: the plot is that there are 4 vying states that you are now dropped in the middle of. It's not so much "you must help a state" as the plot as it is "magical city is important and states are at war" is the plot.

No, the players aren't forced to participate in the plot, just like if you made the plot "Evil bad guy is trying to destroy the world" and the players don't involve themselves. In both instances the players are very capable of denying the plot and doing whatever they want. The only difference is that the plot of "world destruction" has a more immediate failure state that players tend to avoid....death.

There is no plot, there is a scenario or situation whatever you call it, and PCs are dropped in it and can play in it however they want, wanna work for one of the states? Wanna be double agents? Wanna become raiders of the magical city? Its their call, there's nothing to disrupt.

[DMThac0]

There is no plot, there is a scenario or situation whatever you call it, and PCs are dropped in it and can play in it however they want, wanna work for one of the states? Wanna be double agents? Wanna become raiders of the magical city? Its their call, there's nothing to disrupt.

Plot = story = series of events

Call it what you will, they're all synonyms. When you declare that the game begins with four states at war with each other over the control of a magical location, you have created the introduction to a story, a series of potential events, a plot. When the players interact with, or avoid, that plot it changes the potential events. Thus the players actively, or by proxy, influence the game and the plot/story/events you have presented them.

[Rukelnikov]

Plot = story = series of events

Call it what you will, they're all synonyms. When you declare that the game begins with four states at war with each other over the control of a magical location, you have created the introduction to a story, a series of potential events, a plot. When the players interact with, or avoid, that plot it changes the potential events. Thus the players actively, or by proxy, influence the game and the plot/story/events you have presented them.

The story or series of events will be made by the players. Those made by the DM happen before session 1, those are not plot, those are history.

[DMThac0]

The story or series of events will be made by the players. Those made by the DM happen before session 1, those are not plot, those are history.
---
DM: Hey guys, glad you could make it!
Player 1: Alright, so what's going on, where are we?
DM: Ok, you're in the Crusty Tankard, what do you all do?
Player 3: So, I'm bored, I'm going to start a bar brawl.
Player 4: I'm going to wander around town looking for something to do.
Player 2: I'm going to go outside of town and look for herbs or something.
Player 1: **Stares at phone waiting for DM to give them something to do**
---

Now, how do you get all your players together so that they can adventure? You have to give them something to do. You could say that someone shows up to the tavern and asks for help, that's a plot. You could use one of your player's backstories and have them run into an npc from that, a plot. You could have one of the warring states lob a giant barrel of plague into the city, another plot. The moment you give your players a goal, an objective, something to do, you create a plot.

Otherwise you, as a DM, simply answer
"Yes, player 3, you start a bar brawl, roll initiative",
"Player 4, You wander through town asking people if they need help, what do you hear?" (since you don't create the plot they have to tell you)
"Player 2, you exit town, roll survival or nature to search for herbs."
"Player 1, what are you doing? Player 1...Buellar...Buellar"

and spend your time running four different scenes until they tell you that they want to do the same thing.

[Laserlight]

One of the things that keeps D&D interesting is that, as the DM, you can have a well-constructed plan for the next few sessions; and then your players can--without having any idea that they're doing so--not only throw your plan out the window, but also brick up the window, plaster over the brick, and change the architectural drawings to show that wall as solid.

[Sigreid]

---
DM: Hey guys, glad you could make it!
Player 1: Alright, so what's going on, where are we?
DM: Ok, you're in the Crusty Tankard, what do you all do?
Player 3: So, I'm bored, I'm going to start a bar brawl.
Player 4: I'm going to wander around town looking for something to do.
Player 2: I'm going to go outside of town and look for herbs or something.
Player 1: **Stares at phone waiting for DM to give them something to do**
---

Now, how do you get all your players together so that they can adventure? You have to give them something to do. You could say that someone shows up to the tavern and asks for help, that's a plot. You could use one of your player's backstories and have them run into an npc from that, a plot. You could have one of the warring states lob a giant barrel of plague into the city, another plot. The moment you give your players a goal, an objective, something to do, you create a plot.

Otherwise you, as a DM, simply answer
"Yes, player 3, you start a bar brawl, roll initiative",
"Player 4, You wander through town asking people if they need help, what do you hear?" (since you don't create the plot they have to tell you)
"Player 2, you exit town, roll survival or nature to search for herbs."
"Player 1, what are you doing? Player 1...Buellar...Buellar"

and spend your time running four different scenes until they tell you that they want to do the same thing.

Or you ask your players, what are your characters interests and set up a few paths they can start to follow from there. This is what I usually do and I build the path as we go along.

[TyGuy]

Make a world, not a story.

Your players are writing the story, you're providing the setting.

[Tvtyrant]

Almost my entire plot revolves around this magic gemstone. The villain is looking for the stone for reasons unknown to the players. They find it in the first session and the villains start tracking them down for it. I’d keep making references to the fact that it is seen as one of the most powerful items in the world. But now one knows how to use its power. My problem is... what if the players just hand it to the villain? They could give it to the king or drop it in the ocean or even sell it and I could make plans around that. But how do I keep them from just handing it to the villain. (The villain doesn’t care about its magic power he just needs it to resolve his curse but the players don’t know that)

There are two appropriate answers IME:

1. Don't write plots. Just throw situations at them and let it play out naturally.

2. Ask them not to mess with your plot and warn them if they are deviating too far.

[Rynjin]

So why exactly is the villain a villain? How is he evil? Does he have to be evil?

If they hand the gem over after the villain threatens them, you can always say that the villain uses it to resolve his curse, realizes that they are a group of adventurers who could easily just have killed him, and is so humbled by their generosity towards a guy who threatened to kill them, no less, that he rewards them. And gives back the gem. Then you pretend to have always intended it to end that way.

You only need a plan for what to do when this happens too early on and you wanted them to fight the villain more.

This was pretty much my question.

What makes the guy a villain? He just wants to remove a curse.

Antagonist, maybe, if the PCs also need it, but he hardly seems villainous.

[opaopajr]

There are two solutions to stopping players from destroying your plot as a DM:
- stop using plots
- stop using players, write a book instead

Yup. Just have characters with agency playing it out in Imagination Land, both your NPCs and your PCs. Roll with it; that's part of the fun!

Think of Setting as creating a Beautiful Dinner Party -- and the magic is watching how "the guests" enjoy themselves while changing the shape of your buffet and NPC guest list. :smallcool: You are GM as Host, watching people tear apart your spinach dip bread bowl and chatting each other up.

Different media is not fully interchangeable. Celebrate their advantages, not lament their weaknesses. :smalltongue:

[OverLordOcelot]

Almost my entire plot revolves around this magic gemstone. The villain is looking for the stone for reasons unknown to the players. They find it in the first session and the villains start tracking them down for it. I’d keep making references to the fact that it is seen as one of the most powerful items in the world. But now one knows how to use its power. My problem is... what if the players just hand it to the villain? They could give it to the king or drop it in the ocean or even sell it and I could make plans around that. But how do I keep them from just handing it to the villain. (The villain doesn’t care about its magic power he just needs it to resolve his curse but the players don’t know that)

It sounds like you've made a plot with a major flaw. If you're worried that the players will hand it over to the 'villain', and the 'villain' isn't going to do anything villainous with it, how is he even a villain in the first place? And why would they actually not want to just sell the item to someone who really wants it for non-nefarious purposes? It seems the real problem is that the players might catch on that the 'villain' isn't really a villain, just an antagonist, and that they can resolve the whole situation with great profit and low risk by treating him like a non-villain. IMO to keep players from just giving up an item, you need to make it clear that doing so is bad and then follow through on the bad consequences if they still just give it up.

[LaserFace]

D&D isn't about your plot, it's about players making decisions. If I decided tomorrow that my group was going to be graced by my wondrous storytelling and my session planning was just finding ways to thwart them from potentially changing how things play out, I'm pretty sure my players would completely bail on me in under a month. And I'd deserve it.

So, give them actual decisions. There need to be stakes behind decisions and meaning behind choices. You have to communicate it somehow, whether by tying it to their backstories, NPCs they care about, long-term goals they've established, or the efforts of antagonists they hate and/or fear. Or anything like that. Then focus on making consequences to their actions. Sometimes the consequences are good, sometimes they're bad, but the story arises from their choices. If you think it's important for the players to keep an item, show them examples of its power and make it a terrifying prospect to hand it off to someone, especially someone they have witnessed doing harm. But also, be prepared to make the story and plot flow from what they choose to do. We're here to present scenarios and provide a response, not constrict players to our garbage writing. Consider prepping no more than a session in advance.

[Tanarii]

Ah yes, the plotless game where the players do whatever they want and the bad guy doesn't know he's bad until the players say he's bad. The goal of the bad guy doesn't exist until the players say what that goal is, and the end of the adventure doesn't happen until the players say it's happened!

In a simple way it's true though, if you don't want a plot ruined then D&D will always be annoying in that respect. There are more ways the players can derail, destroy, or otherwise not follow the plot as you imagined it would go. As the meme says: all D&D games start with the expectation of being an epic journey like Lord of the Rings and end up being something more like Monty Python and the Holy Grail with everything going sideways.
Initial situations, a general outline for events and encounters if players follow the hooks and clues, and understanding how opposing creatures will act and react, isn't a plot.

Although it certainly makes a convenient shorthand for all that stuff. :smallamused:

[Kane0]

My problem is... what if the players just hand it to the villain? They could give it to the king or drop it in the ocean or even sell it and I could make plans around that. But how do I keep them from just handing it to the villain. (The villain doesn’t care about its magic power he just needs it to resolve his curse but the players don’t know that)

That sounds just as entertaining to me, why not just roll with that if that's what the players end up doing?

[Nhorianscum]

I feel like the obvious solution of "give the villan a really, really annoying voice" is being passed over here.

That said just... Make the villans curse-removal a thing the PC's can stop after they fugger up and if they fail at that indirectly make the un-curse villan a goal to be reached and fought (looking at you CoS).

[Unoriginal]

It seems some persons in this thread are equating "plot" and "plot hook".

Having plot hooks is normal. There's a dragon in the temple, the local lord has been confiscating all magic items, a goblin asks the PCs for help recovering a treasure, etc. But that's not the same thing as having a pre-defined plot the players must not deviate from. Even published modules make clear things can change.

For OP's question, well, as many said, what makes it so unreasonable to give the antagonist what they want? If it IS reasonable, then it should be done unless both sides are foolish and/or misinformed

[TyGuy]

You have to give them something to do. You could say that someone shows up to the tavern and asks for help, that's a plot. You could use one of your player's backstories and have them run into an npc from that, a plot. You could have one of the warring states lob a giant barrel of plague into the city, another plot. The moment you give your players a goal, an objective, something to do, you create a plot.

Those aren't plots, they're plot hooks. Or the very beginning edge of a plot.

Maybe it's semantics, but it does pertain to this conversation.

Plot: noun. the main events of a play, novel, movie, or similar work, devised and presented by the writer as an interrelated sequence.

To take your first example. Someone shows up to the tavern asking for help (plot hook/start of event). The players then react by doing something (event). The DM generates effects (new hooks/events or event resolution)

[Cygnia]

That sounds just as entertaining to me, why not just roll with that if that's what the players end up doing?

Ditto.

I had a long talk with some fellow GMs lamenting about my campaign involving a certain problem player of mine who kept doing NOTHING. Which had been frustrating because a majority of the main plot was tied up with her character (and there was no feasible way to transfer it off onto another PC).

And this GM looked me in the eye and said "Well, what would happen to your game if she keeps doing nothing?"

I thought about it and realized that if she refused to do or question anything, she would be responsible for a mini-Armageddon to hit my world due to her inactions. And that's exactly what happened.