Fun Things You Wish You Could Do Mechanically in 3e

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Some things are just implausibly difficult, if not outright impossible, in D&D 3e. Making sword and board useful without a ton of hard-to-find feats, for instance, or pulling off awesome legendary "mundane" moves to keep up with casters, like those of Spider-Man, Bayonetta (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uwp8P67iyOw), Cu Chulainn, Gilgamesh, or Asura (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rfdf1CERO3Y&t). Legends, old and new, have men (and women) of insane strength and skill pulling off crazy moves that make "four attacks per round; the last two miss" facepalm-worthy in the extreme.

So what things would you like to do in 3e D&D/PF? Be as specific or general as you like. Want a certain feat that never appeared? Want martials to kick conceptual arse? Enlighten us!

[Doctor Awkward]

Zatoichi has always been one of my favorite fictional characters. It's the one concept I have found to be impossible to replicate effectively in D&D 3.5 using just race, class, and feats, and without relying largely on the Blindfold of True Darkness.

[Mr Adventurer]

Characters being more successful when they really care about stuff, in the high-drama stakes we see in stories. There are action point systems but they don't go far enough in my opinion; and usually rely on meta-management rather than just being story driven.

Relatedly, breaking out of (especially magical) constraints, mental or physical, when the really important stuff is on the line.

Relatedly, having a better death spiral where you can continue, meaningfully wounded but meaningfully contributing, for a short while (you kind of can by wasting 2 feats at low levels but Diehard falls off dramatically as HP and monster damage scale up).

[Psyren]

Bayonetta is a caster :smalltongue:

Pretty much everything I'd want has been done in various 3rd-party materials like Spheres, PoW, Pact Magic, Akasha etc.

I guess I'd want more innate casters similar to how Warlock draws magic from fey/fiends, Dragonfire Adept draws from dragons, and Kineticist draws from the elements (but in a less sucky way) and with other sources as the inspiration.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Bayonetta is a caster :smalltongue:Fluff-wise, yeah, but she's functionally a martial character. And she can do things that make any 3e fighter wet himself with envy.

[MisterKaws]

Characters being more successful when they really care about stuff, in the high-drama stakes we see in stories. There are action point systems but they don't go far enough in my opinion; and usually rely on meta-management rather than just being story driven.

Relatedly, breaking out of (especially magical) constraints, mental or physical, when the really important stuff is on the line.

Relatedly, having a better death spiral where you can continue, meaningfully wounded but meaningfully contributing, for a short while (you kind of can by wasting 2 feats at low levels but Diehard falls off dramatically as HP and monster damage scale up).

Well, if you use the epic scaling for negative hp you can keep contributing, but I guess that'd be an alternative rule.

As for what I actually want... I want a Truenamer who can actually talk people to death instead of just screaming loudly until the party Wizard solves it.

[Psyren]

Fluff-wise, yeah, but she's functionally a martial character. And she can do things that make any 3e fighter wet himself with envy.

You might need some definitions then, because I would definitely not go with "functionally a martial character" for someone who stops time and summons demons with her hair. Sure she kicks things to death, but that's magic enhancing her hits.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

You might need some definitions then, because I would definitely not go with "functionally a martial character" for someone who stops time and summons demons with her hair. Sure she kicks things to death, but that's magic enhancing her hits.But all it does is help her move faster and hit harder at longer ranges (and in areas). No fireballs, no lightning bolts, no teleporting. What there is of that kind of thing is mainly due to the weapons she wields. Even her flying is due to physical wings that could be done via a graft.

She hits things really, really well, and when she's faced with an obstacle, her modus operandi is "hit it until it dies. Gruesomely."

You could change the graphics of the games to "she's hitting stuff with fists, guns, and swords really hard," and it wouldn't change much aside from visually. IE, refluff.

Even so, it's common in myth and legend for heroes to be martial characters that can hit insane levels on the epic charts, and D&D martial characters just...don't.

[Psyren]

But all it does is help her move faster and hit harder at longer ranges (and in areas). No fireballs, no lightning bolts, no teleporting.

But she does teleport - and astral project/plane shift, on top of the other stuff I mentioned (shapeshifting, flight, conjuration...)


What there is of that kind of thing is mainly due to the weapons she wields. Even her flying is due to physical wings that could be done via a graft.

But they're not. She conjures them when needed and they vanish when she doesn't.


could change the graphics of the games to "she's hitting stuff with fists, guns, and swords really hard," and it wouldn't change much aside from visually. IE, refluff.

I suspect you could refluff all kinds of magic that way. Certainly 4e did.

[King of Nowhere]

have a super specialist at a skill be truly unique and truly valuable.
as it is, there is no mechanical benefit for being an expert, no way to really focus on raising a skill beyond putting max ranks on it and stacking as much magic as possible.

I attempted to fix this by the homebrew npc class linked in my signature, while removing most magical boosts to skills.

[icefractal]

But all it does is help her move faster and hit harder at longer ranges (and in areas). No fireballs, no lightning bolts, no teleporting. What there is of that kind of thing is mainly due to the weapons she wields. Even her flying is due to physical wings that could be done via a graft.

She hits things really, really well, and when she's faced with an obstacle, her modus operandi is "hit it until it dies. Gruesomely."You just described a buff-based Gish, like an Egoist/Slayer, PsyWar, CoDzilla, or many others.

But I agree that pulling off certain fighting styles without just being intentionally weaker is hard. Being an sniper-type that just makes one single ranged attack, not "as many as possible" for instance.

[ExLibrisMortis]

Relatedly, having a better death spiral where you can continue, meaningfully wounded but meaningfully contributing, for a short while (you kind of can by wasting 2 feats at low levels but Diehard falls off dramatically as HP and monster damage scale up).
I do like the "last stand/last act of defiance/heroic sacrifice" tropes, so I definitely agree with this.

[Saintheart]

- A grappler that actually works.

- A mounted archer who isn't shut down by the ludicrous rule that skirmish damage doesn't apply in that situation.

- A monk that doesn't suck without Tome of Battle.

- A critfisher that doesn't get side-eye or DMGs thrown at him due to measures taken to get around the "Melee can't have nice things Improved Critical and keen don't stack" dictum.

- The ability to train off nonproficiency penalties with weapons. I'm experimenting with this as a house rule in my campaign at the moment: if you come across an exotic weapon, you can train off the suckifying -4 with about 40 days of downtime and focused work of at least 8 hours per day, 5 days at a stretch. It doesn't count as gaining EWP for the purposes of PrCs, but at least you're allowed to use that cool-looking weapon that lies just outside your approved list of weapons that you don't suck with.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

- A monk that doesn't suck without Tome of Battle.Well, given that some of these can solo every single one of the Elder Evils and all of their minions... (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?285801-Tippy-s-Terrifically-Terrible-Trial)

[Saintheart]

Well, given that some of these can solo every single one of the Elder Evils and all of their minions... (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?285801-Tippy-s-Terrifically-Terrible-Trial)

I believe your OP speaks of implausibly difficult. :smallbiggrin:

[Vizzerdrix]

I want skiurids on a familiar list, and a prc that focuses on doing neat things with shapesand. No, Sand Shaper does not count. It is rather quite bad at the whole shaping of sand thing.

I would also like the basic martials to get the love and options they deserve, and for skills to be able to do some truly amazing things pre epic without optimization.

[Cerefel]

Something that the game is missing is definitely ki-based flight, (e.g. 95% of Dragonball Z characters)

Another thing, slightly less relevant to the caster/martial thing: matter manipulation (Fullmetal alchemist, Avatar, etc.)




Sidenote: Bayonetta is totally a Swiftblade

[FaerieGodfather]

Full party healer that is not a divine spellcaster.

[Kurald Galain]

Functional gish at low level.

[Particle_Man]

To somehow duplicate the fate thread manipulation powers of the coda cr fate witch from 1st ed 7th Sea. There was a d20 version of the fate witch but the thread ability didn’t carry over. Maybe an adaptation of iron heroes social feats could work?

[AvatarVecna]

Using the Heal skill to heal people.

EDIT: Yeah it's technically a thing in PF. It's still not good though, no matter how much you invest in it. Which is sad.

[Psyren]

Psychic battles! None of the mechanics I've seen have really managed to hit the sweet spot (though PF's comes close.)

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Psychic battles! None of the mechanics I've seen have really managed to hit the sweet spot (though PF's comes close.)"Déjà vu! I choose you!"

I don't think using Pokeballs for astral constructs will go over well.

Then again... (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1roy4o4tqQM)