Shield-scumming

[Boci]

Is it possible for casters not proficient with shields to still carry one and drop it as soon as its their turn? What about picking it up next round, once they cast their spell. Is that a bonus action?

Its not a huge exploits, at optimal conditions its +2 AC every odd round of comabt, but it is cheap and relativly risk free. My biggest problem is it looks a little silly when I imagine it. A caster carrying a shield and then dropping it as soon as they act makes sense, it could snag an arrow during an ambush, but the whole picking it up every other round is a little daft.

What are your thoughts on this exploit? Did I miss something that actually means it doesn't work? How silly do you find it? Would you mind DMing/playing in a group who used this trick?

[Galithar]

Unless I'm mistaken Shields require you to have proficiency or they confer no AC bonus. So your non proficient caster would just look silly dropping and picking up a shield with no mechanical benefit.

[Bubzors]

Im away from my book but I believe that it takes an action to don or doff a shield

[Galithar]

Im away from my book but I believe that it takes an action to don or doff a shield

It does. I forgot that part. Another thing that would get in your way as a caster trying to abuse Shields.

I think this rule was actually intended to keep that GW fighter/Barb from swinging with a 2 handed weapon and then pulling the shield out for AC on the enemies turn, just to put it away and swing two handed again.

[proselus]

It does indeed take an action to Don or Duff a shield, and while donned, you have disadvantage on attacks and saves (among other things) and can't cast spells.

[No brains]

The most effective use I figured for 'shield scumming' was something I figured out just before hexblade was released, rendering this pointless.

How to 'Ghetto Hexblade':
Be a warlock with Shillelagh.
Cast ur Shillelagh as bonus act.
Don a shield as act.
Starting next turn you can't cast your spells, but you only get disadvantage on Strength and Dexterity based attacks. Luckily, your attacks now use Charisma! Just beware every other STR or DEX attack, save, or check you would need to make. You're now not a complete failure at melee for the next 54 seconds!

Alternately, can just cast eldritch blast and be way more effective.

[OverLordOcelot]

Yep, you can drop a shield and pick it up every round if it makes you happy. But they don't need to do that, as holding onto a shield doesn't prevent casting! The problem is that you don't get a +2 AC for holding a shield, you get it for equipping a shield, and that takes an entire action for both the equip and unequip, not the free 'interact with object'. So while your casters can keep tossing an object to the group and then picking it up, the only way they can get the +2 to AC is to have the shield equipped, which prevents casting. They best they could manage is something like Round 1 - unequip shield, cast bonus action or reaction spell after. 2 - cast bonus action spell equip shield. If they want to cast a regular spell, they'd have to Round 1 - remove shield, 2- cast regular action spell, 3 - equip shield. Not only is this goofy, but it's a bad use of your actions, so I think they'll stop doing it. Only being able to cast action spells 1 round in 3 is pretty limiting.

[Ganders]

All of the rules about what you can hold in your hands are a little wonky. The rules about casting spells while holding items are even odder -- things like swords, wands, focus items, belt pouches, and spell components have weird interactions.

But the shield proficiency rules are wonkist of all. If your left arm is chained to a boulder -- and that boulder is pinning your arm to the ground, you can still cast a spell with your other hand. If you're carrying a ladder, a backpack (with a shield inside), and a large bookcase that weighs 135 pounds in your left hand, you can still cast a spell with your other hand. If a dragon is chomping on your left arm, and has lifted you off the ground, shaking you around during a heavy rainstorm... you can still cast a spell with your other hand. If your left arm is completely ripped off your body, you can still cast a spell with your other hand. But if you strap a shield to your left arm, you're completely out of luck -- you can't even cast a verbal-only cantrip like Thaumaturgy or Vicious Mockery.

It might be best to just accept it -- they REALLY don't want casters to use shields.

[Laserlight]

It might be best to just accept it -- they REALLY don't want casters to use shields

Unless you're a cleric, or hexblade, or dip either of those or fighter or paladin or...

It's not hard to get shield proficiency. It's more awkward to have shield and melee weapon and cast at the same time, but if you're a caster who has to work at getting shield proficiency, why do you care about a melee weapon anyway? "Shield and wand" works.

[Boci]

Oh okay, so it doesn't work after. I'll let the DM know I've been cheating these past two sessions. Oh well. He might actually let me keep doing this trick, and we'll "compromise" and just say I can't pick the shield back up midcombat once I've drop it.


Unless I'm mistaken Shields require you to have proficiency or they confer no AC bonus. So your non proficient caster would just look silly dropping and picking up a shield with no mechanical benefit.

Couln't find any references to this, at least, but yeah, the action to don and doff makes the trick not work by RAW.

[Galithar]

Oh okay, so it doesn't work after. I'll let the DM know I've been cheating these past two sessions. Oh well. He might actually let me keep doing this trick, and we'll "compromise" and just say I can't pick the shield back up midcombat once I've drop it.



Couln't find any references to this, at least, but yeah, the action to don and doff makes the trick not work by RAW.

I believe I was remembering rules from a different system! Apologies!

[Laserlight]

PHB page 144: Armor Proficiency. Anyone can put on a suit of armor or strap a shield to an arm. Only those proficient in the
armor’s use know how to wear it effectively, however. Your class gives you proficiency with certain types of armor. If you wear armor that you lack proficiency with, you have disadvantage on any ability check, saving throw, or attack roll that involves Strength or Dexterity, and you can’t cast spells.

I could see an argument that this only applies to Armor and that Shields are a different thing, but I don't think that's RAI.

[Boci]

You get the AC bonus for shields and armour you wear, reguardless of proficiency.

[Sigreid]

Cast animate object spell on the shield.

[JackPhoenix]

Cast animate object spell on the shield.

Which won't help you. It would be a different creature, so you wouldn't get shield's AC bonus. And it propably isn't large enough to provide you with cover.

[Sigreid]

Which won't help you. It would be a different creature, so you wouldn't get shield's AC bonus. And it propably isn't large enough to provide you with cover.

Perhaps, but if I'm DM and you animate a shield with orders to block incoming attacks I'm going to treat it like the animated shield in the DMG.

[Joe the Rat]

You still gain benefit of the shield, at the cost of pretty much any other effective option besides Dodge and Help. Arguably you'd be better off just Dodging, or finding/making at least partial cover.


The most effective use I figured for 'shield scumming' was something I figured out just before hexblade was released, rendering this pointless.

How to 'Ghetto Hexblade':
Be a warlock with Shillelagh.
Cast ur Shillelagh as bonus act.
Don a shield as act.
Starting next turn you can't cast your spells, but you only get disadvantage on Strength and Dexterity based attacks. Luckily, your attacks now use Charisma! Just beware every other STR or DEX attack, save, or check you would need to make. You're now not a complete failure at melee for the next 54 seconds!

Alternately, can just cast eldritch blast and be way more effective.
You can also go Variant Human Moderately Armored, and you can still cast whilst shillelagcking the crap out of people, possibly with booming/flame blading.
And have semi-decent armor. Hexblade gives you a bit more flexibility by obviating the need for feats or a piece of wood, but I'd rather have the ever-filling thp option.

Melee Tomelock is one of my favorite oddball builds.

[opaopajr]

... or you could just use Cover. :smalltongue: It gives either +2 AC, +5 AC, or blocks line of sight entirely. And most sapient creatures, including your allies (or wimpy enemies), qualify for at least 1/2 cover (+2 AC).

Less work, more interaction with the setting. Yay! :smallsmile: