What are the options for a twf thrown weapons build who wants to be mobile? (DM help)

[Swaoeaeieu]

So yea... i have hit a wall.
I am switching my 3.5 campaign over to pathfinder, all is running dandy, then i notice something that brings trouble: One player is playing a Scout who focusses on two weapon fighting with thrown weapons.
The reason? He thinks its cool that if he moves a few feet, all attacks deal extra damage, and thrown weapons look fun.

can you full attack after moving? no
are thrown weapons good ranged weapons? not really
is dual wielding thrown weapons good? meh

Do you still want to do this in pathfinder? ABSOLUTELY!

Sadly the Scout class doesnt exist in pathfinder, and just using it as is would give a very lackluster option compared to all the other pathfinder classes.

I know there are a lot of options in pathfinder, and i am betting that there is something somewhere, but there is so much too look through..

So i am looking for tips on the following topics:
1) Dual wielding thrown weapons.
2) Attack or damage bonusses from movement (that can be used with ranged weapons)
3) A way to get multiple attacks in a turn you have moved.

4) alternatively, advice on how to port the Scout class to pathfinder.

Classes, archetypes, feats, you name it. For other players i have allready had to homebrew some things together into a cohesive whole, so any ideas are welcome, i can use all the help i can get for this one.

Notes:
There is a scout archetype for the rogue, it lets you add sneak attack dmg on a charge.
i have found a monk archetype that gets to flurry with thrown weapons.
Also a brawler and a monk archetype that gets sneak attack.
Maybe just fighter for all the feats he is gonna need?
DreamScarred Press has the Voyager, that gets bonusses depending on how far it has moved that round, but is psionic... wich is a whole other bag of cats.

[exelsisxax]

Seeing as a scout can't TWF on the move, pathfinder doesn't make the character weaker. Just about any thrown weapon build or stock rogue with a competant ally for flanking will be doing more damage.

Of course, thrown weapon builds in pathfinder still suck, so there's 2 main options:

1: eat the suck(if 3.5 is working, PF will work for him too)
2: make use of 3pp to not suck

Spheres of might does throwing much better than 1pp, and Path of War can do throwing and TWF well if you aren't a grognard who can only see anime fightan magik. A PoW character can be making TWF standard actions from level 1.

[Swaoeaeieu]

ah yes, forgot to mention:
in the original 3.5 build he had a bit of travel devotion so he could get a swift action move. thus getting full attack and skirmish dmg a few times a day.

are there ways in pathfinder to get swift action movement?

[exelsisxax]

ah yes, forgot to mention:
in the original 3.5 build he had a bit of travel devotion so he could get a swift action move. thus getting full attack and skirmish dmg a few times a day.

are there ways in pathfinder to get swift action movement?

This is the most important thing. The title may as well have been "travel devotion in pathfinder?"

let him keep it as a feat, give him this feat (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/3rd-party-feats/4-winds-fantasy-gaming/combat-feats/ranged-flank-combat/) for free because you are a merciful DM who takes pity on people with poorly supported builds. Suggest an archetype that his character is similar to, like a more sneak/skill dagger (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/rogue/archetypes/paizo-rogue-archetypes/knife-master) one or a more purely martial (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/hybrid-classes/swashbuckler/archetypes/paizo-swashbuckler-archetypes/flying-blade) one.

His character is now far stronger. Assuming the rest of the party does basic optimization, they shouldn't overshadow him much.

[fallensavior]

A scout wants to move at least 10 feet per round and still full attack.

The easiest way to do this is a magic item that lets you move 10 ft on a free action 5 foot step action.

The Sparring Dummy of the Master from Arms and Equipment Guide (3.0) does exactly this. Requires at least 1 monk level.

[Swaoeaeieu]

This is the most important thing. The title may as well have been "travel devotion in pathfinder?"

let him keep it as a feat, give him this feat (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/3rd-party-feats/4-winds-fantasy-gaming/combat-feats/ranged-flank-combat/) for free because you are a merciful DM who takes pity on people with poorly supported builds. Suggest an archetype that his character is similar to, like a more sneak/skill dagger (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/rogue/archetypes/paizo-rogue-archetypes/knife-master) one or a more purely martial (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/hybrid-classes/swashbuckler/archetypes/paizo-swashbuckler-archetypes/flying-blade) one.

His character is now far stronger. Assuming the rest of the party does basic optimization, they shouldn't overshadow him much.

Well yea, if all else fails i will just use the old 3.5 feat. but i would like it very much if i could only use pathfinder material for this.
the ranged flanking feat is great! but we are currently too low level (level 5) to just give that away.

i did find some new things!
Outslug sprint is a feat with a bunch of prereqs, but turns your 5 ft step into 10 ft.
Mobile fighter archetype gets full attack with a move at lvl 11
Skirmisher ranger archetype wich at lvl 5 can pick Stags leap, wich from a unclear writing might allow you to free action make a jump check, wich can easily be 10 ft
There are path of war maneuvers that increase ammount of ranged attacks and other that give swift action movement. Might be worth looking into.

[exelsisxax]

Well yea, if all else fails i will just use the old 3.5 feat. but i would like it very much if i could only use pathfinder material for this.
the ranged flanking feat is great! but we are currently too low level (level 5) to just give that away.

i did find some new things!
Outslug sprint is a feat with a bunch of prereqs, but turns your 5 ft step into 10 ft.
Mobile fighter archetype gets full attack with a move at lvl 11
Skirmisher ranger archetype wich at lvl 5 can pick Stags leap, wich from a unclear writing might allow you to free action make a jump check, wich can easily be 10 ft
There are path of war maneuvers that increase ammount of ranged attacks and other that give swift action movement. Might be worth looking into.

Pathfinder is explicitly 3.5 compatible. Your player already has the 3.5 resources, so there's no reason to ban it in this case(because you're helping someone with a bad build, not giving freebies to fullcasters)

Thinking that the feat is overpowered for low levels is incorrect. You can give it away for free because it should be part of the core rules anyway and doesn't imbalance anything.

Outslug would eat most of a non-fighter's feats and both it and mobile fighter take forever to come online, and mobile fighter doesn't even get you a complete full attack. Are you starting at level 11+?

RAW jump checks must be made as part of a movement, which can't be done as a free action. That ranger ability allows you to act as if you had a running start as a free action, it doesn't give you free-action movement.

Yes, do PoW. Thrashing dragon has throwing boosts and standard action TWF from level 1.

[Swaoeaeieu]

we are building for level 5 currently, but it is fine for some builds to come online fully a bit later, i do agree that level 11 is a bit late though.

[Psyren]

Yeah just give him Travel Devotion and/or port the Scout to Pathfinder.

Personally though, for a concept as narrow as a thrown TWF build I'd use a different form of bonus damage entirely that has fewer restrictions on it than sneak attack does - say, a Ranger's Favored Enemy (+Instant Enemy) or an Inquisitor's Judgement/Bane.

[Alexvrahr]

When you have a lot of levels to use then there's unfolding wind rush (https://aonprd.com/FeatDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Unfolding%20Wind%20Rush) . Sadly 'Prerequisites: Dex 13; Wis 13; Dodge; Mobility; Perfect Style; Quick Draw; Unfolding Wind Strike; base attack bonus +13 or monk level 13th.' is another way of saying 'not until the campaign is over' in most cases.

If you take a look at Spheres of Might the Athletics sphere has swift action leaps. There's likely a maneuver which does that in Path of War somewhere, there was in its D&D predecessor the Book of Nine Swords.

[Psyren]

When you have a lot of levels to use then there's unfolding wind rush (https://aonprd.com/FeatDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Unfolding%20Wind%20Rush) . Sadly 'Prerequisites: Dex 13; Wis 13; Dodge; Mobility; Perfect Style; Quick Draw; Unfolding Wind Strike; base attack bonus +13 or monk level 13th.' is another way of saying 'not until the campaign is over' in most cases.

Excellent catch! Forgot all about that one. I need to brush up on the Style Feats.

[Swaoeaeieu]

When you have a lot of levels to use then there's unfolding wind rush (https://aonprd.com/FeatDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Unfolding%20Wind%20Rush) . Sadly 'Prerequisites: Dex 13; Wis 13; Dodge; Mobility; Perfect Style; Quick Draw; Unfolding Wind Strike; base attack bonus +13 or monk level 13th.' is another way of saying 'not until the campaign is over' in most cases.


sad its limited to level 13 though. is it usual for pounce like abilities to only be available in late game in pathfinder?

[grarrrg]

sad its limited to level 13 though. is it usual for pounce like abilities to only be available in late game in pathfinder?

Yes. Level ~10 seems to be the general cut-off.

Some abilities might be available earlier, but they are usually very limited in uses, extremely specific how/when, or other harsh restrictions. Level 10 is when "all day/any time" pounce unlocks.

[Heavenblade]

He can be a scout rogue archetype, and go to town with the improved spring attack feat at level 9. it will be basically the same, but he will also get more benefits from being an unchained rogue which is awesome!

[Battleship789]

As much as I hate to suggest it, a Soulknife (the DSP version) could probably do a passable job at this (though it wouldn't come online until level 6 at the earliest.)

Mind Daggers + Ghost Step/Blade Rush blade skills nabs you throwing weapons that don't disappear for a round after you throw them and swift action movement, and Psychic Strike deals decent rider damage, especially after picking up a few ways of charging it faster (Swift/Critical/Deadly Imbuement feats), applying it to more than one attack (Improved Psychic Strike feat), and/or gaining some utility (Ashen Blade prestige class/Knife to the Soul/Devastating Blade blade skill).

[Kitsuneymg]

When you have a lot of levels to use then there's unfolding wind rush (https://aonprd.com/FeatDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Unfolding%20Wind%20Rush) . Sadly 'Prerequisites: Dex 13; Wis 13; Dodge; Mobility; Perfect Style; Quick Draw; Unfolding Wind Strike; base attack bonus +13 or monk level 13th.' is another way of saying 'not until the campaign is over' in most cases.

If you take a look at Spheres of Might the Athletics sphere has swift action leaps. There's likely a maneuver which does that in Path of War somewhere, there was in its D&D predecessor the Book of Nine Swords.

You can also just use barrage with thrown weapons.

[Mehangel]

I also want to suggest Spheres of Might. When building a mobile thrower, I would suggest focusing in the Athletics, Barrage, and Dual Wielding spheres, with the Throwing Mastery talent (Equipment sphere).

For example at 1st level, you could use the following build:

Class: Armiger
Martial Tradition: Fearless Thrower
- Equipment sphere (Crushing Thrower, Huntsman Training, Throwing Mastery)
- Barrage sphere
Customized Weapons: 10 bolas, 10 daggers, 10 throwing axes
- bolas (Barrage: Blowback Barrage)
- daggers (Barrage: Spinning Shot)
- throwing axes (Dual Wielding: Perfect Set-Up)
Feat: Extra Combat Talent (Dual Wielding)
Quick Change: Gain Quick Draw with customized weapons.

Note: that SoM relies upon the 'attack action', instead of the 'full-attack action', which allows the character to dual wield and barrage while still being completely mobile.

[Swaoeaeieu]

thank you everyone for the advice.

we decided to just take the easy way out and homebrew some stuff together.
so now its a new ranger archetype that gives him most of the 3.5 scout abilities.