The Gold Incentive

[GuestEleven]

So I have come to 5e from 3.5/PF, and honestly I'm loving the system so far. But on one of my new characters I've come across something I've never encountered while playing 3.5/PF. The long made short of it is that at level 4 our party came across a Deck of Many Things. My bold self drew 11 and honestly got a very solid set of cards. The two big ones that have lead me to this post is Throne and Gem. Throne gave me a keep to clear out and Gem gave me the equivalent of 50,000 gold pieces in assorted jewelry. I started planning out what to do with my gold and quickly came to a brick wall when I realized that magical items don't have a price and generally aren't meant to be bought by PCs. I have a keep now so buying a residence is out of the picture(unless I want to go full tycoon), and all I can imagine spending the gold on is future renovations. So at this point what in the incentive to get more gold? Just hoard it like a dragon for the sake of saying that I have it?


I was hoping that you guys may have some good suggestions on what PCs can do with their gold outside of just buying services. I considered trying to buy out a mercenary company or something similar, but that doesn't seem in line with my character. Any tips?


The full list of cards I drew(for those who may be wondering):
Vizier, Jester, Key, Moon, Balance, Throne, Idiot, Fates, Flames, Star, and Gem.

[nickl_2000]

So, the first question is to ask your DM if you can buy magical items with cash. There is a homebrew sane magic item guide that is very good out there (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8XAiXpOfz9cMWt1RTBicmpmUDg/view?usp=sharing). So, your DM may let you buy from there.

That being said, you have enough money to completely destroy a campaign if that is allowed (of course if your DM gave you a deck of many things at level 4, the campaign is already pretty derailed).


If not, you can spend the money to build up a network of spies to get you information and to figure out what devil wants to kill you and find out information about the campaign.

[Man_Over_Game]

Buy scrolls, buy a ship, buy status. Do what real-life people do: Donate it to fancy-pants public organizations (like a museum or something) and put your name on it. Wealthy people love putting their name on stuff with a gold stamp.

Magic items might not always have an exact cost (as they're basically considered "priceless"), but that doesn't mean that they can't be worth it in gold. Just find some adventurers who have done the adventuring for you, offer up your gold, and gain the stuff that they did the work for. There are plenty of magic items I would have sold for 50k. Not all of them, but still plenty.

Buying a spell cast could very well be a thing. Adventure League (WotC endorsed official play) has rates for spells that you can purchase. There's not an official formula, but one has been reverse engineered from the rates that WotC has released:
(level)2 x 10 + (Consumed Materials x 2) + (Non-consumed Materials x 0.1)

However, in AL, there's no implication that something like Wish would only cost 810. Rather, there are specific spells that AL allows you to cast (like Raise Dead) and it uses this formula to determine the cost. I'd probably rule that spells between levels 6-9 instead use (level)3.

[Waterdeep Merch]

If you can't buy magic items (DM dependent, after all), don't forget that mercenaries are actually priced out in the PHB and action economy is the absolute king of 5e. You can basically stomp anything in the game with enough warm bodies.

[Sigreid]

You have money and a keep, you need an army and alliances. Both are expensive.

[strangebloke]

Get a cult/mercenary organization/ business going. Buy an office in the city, hire a manager/receptionist. Buy publicity. Heck, if your DM gives you the time, try and get yourself a title with all your new money and power.

I'd consider completely changing the direction of the campaign if the party had access to that much money.

[Sigreid]

And, of course, there's always liquor and whores.

[nickl_2000]

Also, you character just lost a decent amount of intelligence. Are you still smart enough not to be bamboozled out of all your new found wealth?

[GuestEleven]

Thanks for all the feedback. My character is an Eladrin Noble from the Summer Court. But he is a Barbarian/Ranger/Fighter and I'm not sure how much he cares for the concept of playing monopoly. It would be quite useful to gain some powerful allies, and liquor+wenches are one of his favorite combinations. And don't worry about his intelligence, I got ultra lucky and only lost 2, putting me at 10. I will definitely see if he'll let me enter the market for some minor magic items.

[Imbalance]

First, don't draw any more cards.
Second, do you have a moment to find out how you, too, can enjoy one of our many luxurious and exclusive timeshare condominiums overlooking the stunningly beautiful Sword Coast?

[ImproperJustice]

Hire groups of low level adventurers to collect artifacts of power and lore for your own amusement / purposes.

Create your own faction and began establishing territory and influence.

Return to your home town and begin developing it’s natural industries and growing it into a thriving and flourishing community.

Build a massive dungeon complex full of traps, puzzles, and challenges to fend off that adventuring party of Dragons seeking to sieze your hoard.

[Keravath]

With 50,000 gold and a keep ... why is your adventurer even considering adventuring? It is dangerous and typically uncomfortable. At level 4 you have already succeeded so now it is time to retire and enjoy your wealth and thank whichever diety you like that you were lucky with that deck of cards.

(Sorry ... just personal snark ... but whenever I hear of a DM throwing a Deck of Many Things into a campaign I just shudder. I've been in at least a couple campaigns where this happened and it usually meant the end of the characters involved if not the campaign itself since one of the most common reasons to toss it in is boredom ... though inexperience is probably second place).

P.S. There were also at least 3 cards that would result in the permanent death of your character. Your DM was either generous or you were extremely lucky to avoid drawing any of these cards when picking 11 cards from a deck that has at most 22.

[Man_Over_Game]

With 50,000 gold and a keep ... why is your adventurer even considering adventuring? It is dangerous and typically uncomfortable. At level 4 you have already succeeded so now it is time to retire and enjoy your wealth and thank whichever diety you like that you were lucky with that deck of cards.

(Sorry ... just personal snark ... but whenever I hear of a DM throwing a Deck of Many Things into a campaign I just shudder. I've been in at least a couple campaigns where this happened and it usually meant the end of the characters involved if not the campaign itself since one of the most common reasons to toss it in is boredom ... though inexperience is probably second place).

That's kinda how I feel, too. To me, a Deck of Many Things is used when the DM doesn't care about his own campaign.

Which isn't the worst thing in the case of something like One-shots, but it's never something you want to introduce if it's important to care about what happens after.
Kinda like unprotected sex, in a way.

[Rukelnikov]

So I have come to 5e from 3.5/PF, and honestly I'm loving the system so far. But on one of my new characters I've come across something I've never encountered while playing 3.5/PF. The long made short of it is that at level 4 our party came across a Deck of Many Things. My bold self drew 11 and honestly got a very solid set of cards. The two big ones that have lead me to this post is Throne and Gem. Throne gave me a keep to clear out and Gem gave me the equivalent of 50,000 gold pieces in assorted jewelry. I started planning out what to do with my gold and quickly came to a brick wall when I realized that magical items don't have a price and generally aren't meant to be bought by PCs. I have a keep now so buying a residence is out of the picture(unless I want to go full tycoon), and all I can imagine spending the gold on is future renovations. So at this point what in the incentive to get more gold? Just hoard it like a dragon for the sake of saying that I have it?


I was hoping that you guys may have some good suggestions on what PCs can do with their gold outside of just buying services. I considered trying to buy out a mercenary company or something similar, but that doesn't seem in line with my character. Any tips?


The full list of cards I drew(for those who may be wondering):
Vizier, Jester, Key, Moon, Balance, Throne, Idiot, Fates, Flames, Star, and Gem.

Let's say you had no keep, no 50k, no deck of many thing, yada yada yada. Instead of all that, you got a +1 sword, and here comes a barbarian and offers you 50k gold for it, would you sell it?

Magic items can be bought in any setting that tries to have at least a minimum of verosimilitude. If your DM is not running it like a computer game, you will be able to buy something.

Also, aside from the "sane magic item prices", there's is also a section on the DMG on buying and selling magic items, prices are very broad, and frankly don't make much sense (Adamantine full plate is cheaper than a regular full plate :smallconfused:), but the section does exist. Sane magic prices is not great, but leaps and bounds better than the half baked section of the DMG

[Chronos]

I've said it before: You don't reward players by giving them money. You reward them by giving them opportunities to spend their money. The most rewarding reward any of my characters ever got was the opportunity to sponsor a couple of street urchins' educations. It provided no tangible benefit to the character at all, and set him back hundreds of gold pieces, and he was still quite satisfied with it.

Now, obviously that particular reward wouldn't matter to a lot of other characters. And it might not have mattered to mine, either, were it not for the chain of events that led up to that moment. Other rewards would apply for other characters in other circumstances.

[Devils_Advocate]

With 50,000 gold and a keep ... why is your adventurer even considering adventuring? It is dangerous and typically uncomfortable. At level 4 you have already succeeded so now it is time to retire and enjoy your wealth and thank whichever diety you like that you were lucky with that deck of cards.
VAX: When it was just you and me, I knew what we were doing. We were just trying to survive.
VEX: Right! That’s really all we’re doing now, just on a grander scale.
VAX: (sighs) We’re running into this **** on purpose now.
- Critical Role, Episode 39: Omens (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9EToAf4nhDw)

"There's a broad class of goals that aren't suitable as the long-term meaning of life, because you can actually achieve them, and then you're done."
- Eliezer Yudkowsky

A surprising number of people seem to be sufficiently bad at keeping track of their own priorities that they straight up forget why they were doing something in the first place. Once you're a multimillionaire, you probably don't really need to work 80 hour weeks anymore to provide for your wife and children; and your entire family, including you, might well be happier if you stopped working entirely. But without some sort of obvious major turning point, it may never occur to you that you seriously have enough money now that you no longer have any compelling reason to earn more. Those 80 hour weeks don't leave a lot of time for introspection.

So, even if they started with other goals, it's not necessarily unrealistic for D&D characters to keep on buying better equipment to help them on their adventures so they can get even better equipment and so on and so forth, even well after those starting goals have been achieved. It's kind of tragic if they keep on risking their lives for treasure and glory almost purely out of habit, but it's also sort of tragically plausible.

A sudden massive windfall, though, is an obvious major turning point. And while a character's adventures might not be motivated by wealth, wealth is obviously really useful for accomplishing a whole lot of things, and thus many characters who become super rich have good reason to consider that maybe their personal goals would now be better served by methods other than personally traveling the land fighting monsters and so on.

If you find that you have more gold than you want, it's probably worth considering that there are a lot of other people who would like to have that gold. Perhaps you could give some of it to some of those people who want to use the gold to accomplish things that you approve of. Also, a lot of those other people who want gold are willing to do things in exchange for gold. Giving you magic items could be one of those things, but it's probably worth thinking about whether owning magic items as an end in itself is any more worthwhile than having lots of gold as an end in itself, and if so what you want magic items for, and whether those purposes might be more efficiently achieved by other means.

TL;DR: Money can be exchanged for goods and services!

[Unoriginal]

Let's not forget that maintaining a keep costs *a lot*, between the maintenance, the domestic staff, and the security staff.

[Tanarii]

I was hoping that you guys may have some good suggestions on what PCs can do with their gold outside of just buying services. I considered trying to buy out a mercenary company or something similar, but that doesn't seem in line with my character. Any tips?
Clearly you made the wrong kind of D&D character. Don't you know the entire purpose is to get a keep and an army and carve out a kingdom?

[dragsvart]

Fun fact: airships only cost 20,000gp. Go live my dream friend.

[ChampionWiggles]

With 50,000 gold and a keep ... why is your adventurer even considering adventuring? It is dangerous and typically uncomfortable. At level 4 you have already succeeded so now it is time to retire and enjoy your wealth and thank whichever deity you like that you were lucky with that deck of cards.

Part of why I have a personal problem with characters whose motivations are purely money. Once the character finally obtains enough money, you find a hard reason to keep them going.



I was hoping that you guys may have some good suggestions on what PCs can do with their gold outside of just buying services. I considered trying to buy out a mercenary company or something similar, but that doesn't seem in line with my character. Any tips?


This begs the big question...what DOES seem in line with your character? What does your character, given their personality and goals, think they can accomplish with this amount of money? Think more what your character would want/thinks is possible and less what you, as a player want/want to know what's possible. You really have to think what your character would do given so much money and a keep. There's nothing saying that the DM has to fill the keep with monsters of a CR you can currently fight to be cleared out. The DM could make the keep a Lich's Lair. Now what?

Also, you're putting the cart in front of the horse a bit. You have jewelry and gems worth up to 50,000 gp. You have yet to say you've sold it. Your character could be robbed blind before they get a chance to sell it. Also, your character has to find a vendor that has enough money to buy these things off you (at the value these items are allegedly worth). It's kind of turning into the same problem ran into with Bethesda games, where you have the 50k Gold worth item...now you have to find a vendor who can afford that.

You have gem stones. A lot of powerful spells need certain gem stones worth X amount of GP as a material component. Assuming you have the needed gem, got any spell casters in the party you wouldn't mind owing you a favor by loaning them one?

[Sigreid]

You could use the money as seed money to start a cult and attempt to ascend to godhood. It even gives you a reason to keep adventuring as to get people to truly worship you you will have to have a nice history of ever increasing godlike feats that inspire that faith.

[Ventruenox]

Mercenaries don't have to be all that expensive (http://www.d20monkey.com/comic/lead-from-the-rear/). 50k could go a very long way.

[OldTrees1]

Well, the Gold Incentive is rather simple.

You want enough gold to buy yourself a thneed.
Then you want enough gold to buy your family each a thneed.
Then you want enough gold to buy your friends each a thneed.
Then you want enough gold to buy your peers each a thneed.
Then you want enough gold to buy your neighbors each a thneed.
Then you want enough gold to buy your countrymen each a thneed.
Then you want enough gold to buy your fellow humanoids each a thneed.
...

[Unoriginal]

Well, the Gold Incentive is rather simple.

You want enough gold to buy yourself a thneed.
Then you want enough gold to buy your family each a thneed.
Then you want enough gold to buy your friends each a thneed.
Then you want enough gold to buy your peers each a thneed.
Then you want enough gold to buy your neighbors each a thneed.
Then you want enough gold to buy your countrymen each a thneed.
Then you want enough gold to buy your fellow humanoids each a thneed.
...

Then the Lorax shows up, and speak for the trees?

[OldTrees1]

Then the Lorax shows up, and speak for the trees?

If the Lorax says the trees have needs,
well then all the Sneetches without stars
should switch from thneeds
to stars upon thar's.

You want enough gold to buy yourself a star upon thar's.
Then you want enough gold to buy your family each a star upon thar's.
Then you want enough gold to buy your friends each a star upon thar's.
Then you want enough gold to buy your peers each a star upon thar's.
Then you want enough gold to buy your neighbors each a star upon thar's.
Then you want enough gold to buy your countrymen each a star upon thar's.
Then you want enough gold to buy your fellow humanoids each a star upon thar's.
...

But if a belly of stars
is a bit too far,
then perhaps buy each
a roof and a peach

[DeTess]

Mercenaries don't have to be all that expensive (http://www.d20monkey.com/comic/lead-from-the-rear/). 50k could go a very long way.

We once calculated what it took to fully equip a roman legion for our game, and ended somewhere around a 100k or so. That's a pretty sizable army though.

[Chronos]

And then you pay again to take everyone's stars off.

[Mad_Saulot]

My group recently wiped out a pirate island and stole a pirate ship, they ended up with a large ship (caravel) and over 40,000gold and treasure.

First thing they did was service the ship and replace the crew which cost over a grand, then they modified the ship to replace the cargo hold with crew/utility compartments which cost a few grand.

I use the sane magic item prices list so they spent a few grand buying a few magic items and potions/scrolls, they spent about ten grand on magik.

They spent several grand on research for the main questline, each research attempt cost between 100-600 gold, there were over a dozen research subjects.

They have less than half of the cash they won. They could buy cannons for the ship but that would wipe them out finacially. (in my game firearms are very expensive)

50 grand is not much money in the grand scheme of things, it would buy you a small keep or fort and a shabby garrison for a 5 year contract, but its enough to get you started on a bid scheme.

My players use the ship as a mobile HQ, but they could do what normal folk do and actually haul trade, become pirates, join a naval group whatever..

50 grand is chump change when you look at things from the position of national rulers and kings, you couldnt prosecute a decent sized war with a mere 50 grand, thats just enough for one warship with crew and weapons, so think about it, a fleet of say 60 warships would cost well over 3 million gold.

[No brains]

What Challenge rating is a Lorax?:smallamused:

Also, in a world of gods, dryads, treants, and shambling mounds, having the Lorax show up for nature is a polite warning shot.

[Mad_Saulot]

50,000 gold would weigh half a ton, how are you carrying it?

[Unoriginal]

50,000 gold would weigh half a ton, how are you carrying it?

I think the card gives piecies of jewelry that are worth that much, not coins

[Kurt Kurageous]

My first impression is "game over."

The deck of many things is a campaign ender more times than anything. Any DM who puts it in front of you before you are ready to quit the characters doesn't understand this.

And many of the posts in this thread seem to hint the same thing.