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View Full Version : Pathfinder Help converting a couple of things from my 3.5e setting over to PF



RhoTheWanderer
2019-04-18, 10:51 PM
Background: I have, slowly but surely, been fiddling around with building a 3.5e D&D setting for probably about 8 years now. I usually avoid the responsibility/headache of DMing for the most part, so I've only ran a few dozen actual sessions in it over the years. That said, the tabletop rpg group that I usually play with recently started a Pathfinder game; and when we were still initially discussing starting it, humblebundle coincidentally had a massive bargain for a bunch of Pathfinder PDFs, so I picked those up. I've yet to fully digest most of the material, but I've liked what I've seen and played so far. As a result, I'm looking at fully converting my old setting over to Pathfinder.

The problem: Due to my lack of familiarity with Pathfinder (and Pathfinder's number of options [classes, archetypes, feats, and so on] seeming to be almost as daunting at first glance as the number of options in 3e/3.5e), I could use some help finding some things to match up with certain PrCs or campaign ideas. The goal here is to stick with Pathfinder material as much as possible, and to only try to ham-fist things straight from 3.5e when much of the flavor or crunch can't be adequately recreated otherwise. That said, any suggested straight conversions/rewrites will be accepted for consideration.

1. Mage of the Arcane Order (Complete Arcane, page 48).
A nifty 3.5e PrC that piqued my interest enough that I thought, "If I ever roll Wizard in a 3.5 game, I'm using this. And regardless, I MUST work this into my campaign somehow!"

2. Graphomancy: Runesmith (Races of Stone, page 118) and Geometer (Complete Arcane, page 39).
Within my setting, early practitioners of magic inscribed (or in more permanent cases, engraved) various geometric designs on the ground around themselves to aid in gathering, focusing, and channeling magical energies; this almost ritualistic method of casting a spell was known as "graphomancy". "Modern magic" within the setting is less reliant on the use of graphomancy, but such a technique could still be used to enhance the power of a spell. Albeit, it was usually fluffed as taking a little longer, but...meh. /shrug Regardless, although I've never had it officially codified, I've generally toyed with using these two PrCs as a halfway decent way of injecting some of the general flavor. Runesmith is dwarf-flavored, which is an added bonus as one of the first races in my setting (besides dragons and elves) to experiment with magic was a race of dwarves.

3. Blood Magic?
For a very, very long time, I've had the idea in my head of a form of magic that mostly worked as follows: You use a small amount of blood as a material component in your spells, and it enhances the power of your spells. Good- or neutral-aligned users of blood magic would either cut themselves to use their own blood for this purpose, or they'd take blood from an animal or a willing subject. However, within my setting, legends persist of Eeevil spellcasters sacrificing hundreds of sentient beings at a time for unspeakably Eeeeeevil near-apocalyptic magic-spell-magibabble-stuff. And this is where I run into a slight problem: I have yet to find something quite like this in 3e or 3.5e. So, here's to hoping that PF has something vaguely representative of this, cheers!

4. Bonus round: Group Magic.
The story goes like this: Long ago (4000+ years ago), during the later years of the 2nd Age, when knowledge of magic was at its peak, a deep divisive disagreement occurred between the leader of the Dark Elves and the other Elf leaders. This resulted in a gigantic war in which some of the most powerful magic the world ever saw was utilized on the battlefield. This magic often involved several lesser spellcasters working together to cast spells of nearly god-like power. The world has never seen such magic used in battle ever since, partly because the elves outlawed its use (at least among themselves, and later as part of international agreements with anyone they traded or allied with) after finding that such powerful spells being used repeatedly in a given region over the course of 200+ years caused the area to become contaminated with residual magic energy (random spell effects just happening out of nowhere, spells not always behaving in their usual predictable manners, spells with the Living Spell template from the Ebberon campaign setting just running around, people and things from other planes or even other time periods randomly appearing, etc). To represent this ancient "group magic," probably the closest thing I've found is the Red Wizard (Dungeon Master's Guide, page 193). Again, I call group magic the "bonus round" because it might appear once (if ever) in the entire campaign.

Thanks for reading, and thanks in advance for any suggestions!

exelsisxax
2019-04-19, 08:24 AM
1. Port the PrC.

2-4 this is all fluff. You could do all of these by just insisting that magic can be done in those ways. Are there any actual mechanical considerations? If there aren't, then you don't need rules.

Hunter Noventa
2019-04-19, 08:30 AM
1. Mage of the Arcane Order (Complete Arcane, page 48).
A nifty 3.5e PrC that piqued my interest enough that I thought, "If I ever roll Wizard in a 3.5 game, I'm using this. And regardless, I MUST work this into my campaign somehow!"


This should be the easiest thing to do. You'd only need the following changes-

Port the Cooperative Spell feat to Pathfinder, or alternately, replace it as a requirement with one of the casting related Teamwork feats (Allied Spellcaster, Elemental Commixture, Spell Chain)
Change the class skill list, notably there is no more Concentration skill, while Speak Language and Decipher Script are folded into Linguistics.
Lower the rank requirement of Knowledge(Arcana) to 5 ranks, since that is the same as 3.5's 8 ranks
Optionally, replace the Bonus Languages with a choice of Skill focus feats for the PrC's class skills.


The other features are perfectly fine as-is.

Palanan
2019-04-19, 08:55 AM
Originally Posted by RhoTheWanderer
However, within my setting, legends persist of Eeevil spellcasters sacrificing hundreds of sentient beings at a time for unspeakably Eeeeeevil near-apocalyptic magic-spell-magibabble-stuff….

So, here's to hoping that PF has something vaguely representative of this, cheers!

You might look at some of the rituals in Pathfinder, which might be adapted to what you’re thinking.


Originally Posted by RhoTheWanderer
Group magic…often involved several lesser spellcasters working together to cast spells of nearly god-like power.

This sounds a lot like circle magic, which is detailed on p. 59 of the Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting. If you found a parallel in the Red Wizard from the DMG, that’s because this is a setting-neutral version of the Red Wizards of Thay, who are one of the primary groups that use circle magic. (The other is the Hathrans of Rashemen.) You should be able to import circle magic into Pathfinder without too much trouble.

RhoTheWanderer
2019-04-19, 01:42 PM
Thanks for all the help so far guys! And special thanks Noventa for the help on the Mage of the Arcane Order!

Also, I just saw today in the core rulebook that Paizo has a PDF on their website that goes over converting characters, PrCs, and so on from 3.5 to PF. So I have that now, and it'll make converting a lot of other stuff much simpler. So far, it's looking like Mage of the Arcane Order and Red Wizard will get a pretty straight-forward conversion. I may still make some additional alterations to Runesmith & Geometer if I convert them though.


You might look at some of the rituals in Pathfinder, which might be adapted to what you’re thinking.

Oooo! Still probably not quite what I'm looking for with blood magic (with the possible exception of the massive human-sacrifice examples), but glancing at occult rituals from Occult Adventures...it's not far off from how I've handled graphomancy in the past. I'm still strongly open to additional suggestions (particularly for the lesser versions of blood magic. I might just adapt a few metamagic feats to represent it and call it a day as that'd sum up what it'd do [though, making a special archetype or 5-level PrC replicating such things and tossing in a few extra goodies might not be bad]), but I'll likely use a mixture of occult rituals, Runesmith, and Geometer to cover graphomancy (and the Red Wizard and circle magic as the crunch for group magic if it ever comes up).

If I were to use metamagic feats to represent blood magic, I'd probably have them either cut themselves or someone else (dealing some arbitrary amount of damage, like 1d4 per unit of blood taken). For application of the feat, a unit or two of blood could be used as a material component to lower the metamagic cost of a spell by an equivelent amount (one unit per +1 spell level of metamagic). Alternatively, I could make specific blood metamagic feats that just throw on additional specific effects. E.g. You could use the Blood Magic (Empower Spell) feat to cast an empowered fireball using some blood as an additional material component.

Come to think of it, I forget where it was (probably Complete Arcane, Complete Mage, or Unearthed Arcana), but I think 3.5e had rules for "metamagic components," rare material components that could be used to apply metamagic feats to spells. I could probably use that as well, having something like the blood of a white dragon be usable to cast a Rimed spell without increasing its level.

If I were to have mundane, normal, pc/npc blood be usable as a material component, I'd likely have to add the restriction that it "must be relatively fresh" (i.e. gathered within the last 5 rounds or some other relatively short amount of time) to avoid having the party wizard carting around 100 one-gallon jugs of his or someone else's blood...or simply gathering a large amount of blood, and then having the cleric, bard, etc using a wand of CLW to heal the damage right away.

What I should probably do is as follows: 1. If typical pc/npc-race blood is used, it'll require a feat, have some minor hp or con damage attatched to it that is acquired via cutting oneself as a swift action, and allow the spontaneous use of a metamagic feat without increasing casting time or the spell level. Applying this to the magus or something and throwing in another feat might allow the character to use the residual blood on his/her weapon from a previous successful attack as the blood material component for these feats; thereby bypassing the need to cut himself/herself as swift action.

1a. If a blood metamagic feat only applies to one particular metamagic feat, and if it has that particular metamagic feat as a prerequisite, I can probably relax the damage attatched to it. If it just effectively replicates a specific metamagic feat, effectively giving it for free and making it cost nothing to use, then either it would need tighter prerequisites or the damage should probably be increased and maybe even have some other backlash effects thrown in. Likewise, if it were a single feat that could be applied spontaneously to any metamagic feat that you possess on any spell that you can cast, that might require throwing in a number of prerequisites or backlash effects.

2. Fancy magical blood from [insert rare and powerful monster/creature here] would be able to function as a metamagic component, applying a specific metamagic effect based on the creature at no cost when used as a material component for a spell. And such components could be preserved and stored for semi-indefinite periods of time.

3. If the blood of 666 players of Sin'dorei beastmastery-specc'd hunters (*nervous gulp*) is required for something, it'll use the occult ritual rules as a rough guideline.

4. Another option I could possibly do, is just roll the vague idea of blood metamagic into an archetype compatible with a few spellcasting classes or roll it along with some blood-themed abilities into a 5-level PrC.