Revised Beastmaster with Tiger or Dire Wolf

[CTurbo]

Would it be worth it? Too strong? Still too lacking?

[Theron_the_slim]

Depending on the level probably.

I had a Campain with a Revised Beastmaster from lvl 1 to lvl 12 with a Panther Companion

The Character worked very well, but spiked pretty strong at the early lvls since the revisited ranger in general is very frontloaded and since get an "extra turn" every round.
You and your Companion scale well enough, since it´s pretty much catch up for most martial classes till about mid T2 and I don´t see them outperforming you for anytime soon.
One thing that may concern you is that you Companion at lvl 11 will probably outperform your character in most fights (aoe attack and reaction attack) and you probably should be the last priority concering magic weapons as a martial character.

So yeah, a CR1 Beast would probably be really, really strong at the beginning and even later, since its only real weakness, not too much hp, (even if it has all the good saves and later advantage) would be somewhat negated. So yeah, probably too strong, especially at the early levels.

Also as a note, Xanathars Guide has some really nice spells for rangers in general, so yeah, with that and the revised changes, ranger is in a pretty fine spot

[CTurbo]

Guess I could have specified this, but it would he character level 5 before I actually got my companion because I will take first 2 levels in Barb if Str focused, or Monk if Dex focused.

[Theron_the_slim]

I think its still not necessary to buff the revised ranger, you should be strong enough. Reflavouring the companion if you want something for the flavor would work too.

That being said its all up to your group dynamic. Spikes of power exist in most classes. Lvl 2 Moon Druids are the best example.

If you have an very open group on balance matters, nobody will care.
If you have almost only casters, probably nobody will care.
If other martials are ranged characters, nobody will care.

Personally, I would be a little bit careful with Melee fighters, with a buffed direwolf, it is possible that they are playing second fiddle to your pet ... for, depending on their possibility to get magical items, quiet a while. Thats a point where I see some potential for frustration, but again, that really depends on the other players.

[CTurbo]

The reason for the buff in the first place is because we're all going to have crazy stats so I was afraid a regular panther/wolf would be even more underwhelming.

[Sahe]

Mmh, maybe not entirely helpful, but I talked with my GM about the concept of Revised Beastmaster Ranger with a stronger pet, the tradeoff however being that she is just a girl of 14 years and isn't all that combat proficient (terrible physical stats) and uses her pet to fight for her as a dynamic brains/muscle duo and best friends because she saved it when it was a pup caught in a trap.

[Shuruke]

Revised beast master can have cr 1/2

If your worried about its survivability ask if it can have
5+it's con per ranger level
Or
5+your wisdom per ranger level for its health

[Ventruenox]

Size may also be an issue. All Beastmaster companions are M or smaller. Dire Wolf and Tiger are large.

[NaughtyTiger]

Prior to Find Greater Steed, official WotC documentation granted a Brown bear as an Orc Paladin's Find Steed (consistent with the wording of the find steed spell)

Find Greater Steed didn't exclude it for Find Steed, just muddied the water.

[nickl_2000]

The reason for the buff in the first place is because we're all going to have crazy stats so I was afraid a regular panther/wolf would be even more underwhelming.

So, if you are starting it at level 5 and all the other PCs will have crazy stats, I say go for it and see what happens. Just talk with the player and tell him/her that if it ends up being to crazy then you will need to nerf it some.

[CTurbo]

I originally asked the DM if I could use the Tiger's stats in place of the Panther's and keeping it Medium, but he suggested just using the Tiger. I don't know about having a large beast. I do want the better stats at least. My other idea option was for him to give me some limited point buy to just buy more points for the Panther. The Tiger only improves on hit dice, Str, and Con.

Our characters will be starting with multiple 20s from level 1. By level 5 we will have a lot of HP. I need the companion to be able to keep up. A level 5 Ranger with 20 Con will have 59 hp. A Panther will have 13 Hp, a Tiger will have 37 hp.

[GlenSmash!]

Direwolf's knocking prone, and Pack tactics is quite strong at low levels. I even prefer it as Moon Druid over Brown Bear.

Tiger lacks pack tactics and at least has to move 20ft first which will limit it a bit.

[Rowan Wolf]

Size may also be an issue. All Beastmaster companions are M or smaller. Dire Wolf and Tiger are large.

I recall asking about the size limitations on ranger companion during a Mike Mearls Happy fun hour and it was mostly a worry about the area denial of a 4x4 square creature. Which is funny with the druid wild shape and find steed spells. Almost like th he ranger isn't allowed stuff because ranger.

[CTurbo]

I'm happy to keep a medium Panther/Wolf as long as the stats are boosted a bit.

[NaughtyTiger]

I'm happy to keep a medium Panther/Wolf as long as the stats are boosted a bit.

have you looked at the UA rules for pets/henchmen?

these pets have levels in fighter, so they get bumps in HP and abilities.

[Lupine]

Honestly, I've been looking into this, and I think changing the rules from CR 1/4 to 1/4 (or 1/6) of your ranger level would entirely fix the issue (you'd probably need to drop multi-attack until 11th level. With that system, your beast is about half as powerful as you in most cases (In xanathars, the matchups are 1:2 for all levels except for level 4, which is 1:1)

So, you could have a tiger/dire wolf, but not at first level.

Alternatively, you could create an animal companion stat-block, and have it scale up with level, allowing modifications similar to eldritch invocations for your animal companion. You could create a system for stats where you can choose certain abilities for your creature, and then choose the beast based on that.

[NaughtyTiger]

Alternatively, you could create an animal companion stat-block, and have it scale up with level, allowing modifications similar to eldritch invocations for your animal companion. You could create a system for stats where you can choose certain abilities for your creature, and then choose the beast based on that.

This is how they should have done it from day 1...

buy properties like: burrow speed, climb speed, fly speed, poison, medium size, large size,... it would let the flavor of the beast be more important that the mechanics
well, my guy is a desert dweller, so giant lizard or snake makes more sense, but a wolf has pack tactics, so....

[Wildarm]

This is how they should have done it from day 1...

buy properties like: burrow speed, climb speed, fly speed, poison, medium size, large size,... it would let the flavor of the beast be more important that the mechanics
well, my guy is a desert dweller, so giant lizard or snake makes more sense, but a wolf has pack tactics, so....

I'd be OK with a build a bear type mechanic for companions and mounts. Looking at CR1/2 beasts a base companion would be:

Medium Size
AC 13(Natural Armor), Base HP 13 (2D8)
Stat Array(Player can choose): 14, 14, 12, 10, 6, 2(Must be Int)
Pick One Skill
Natural Weapon Attack 1d6+Dex or Str

Pick 3 Bonuses:

+1 to a stat
+1 AC
Upgrade weapon attack die
Upgrade HP die
Fly/Swim/Burrow Speed
Extra skill proficiency
Pack Tactics
Keen Senses
Pounce
Constrict
Etc...

Can fluff the type of creature to whatever you like for a theme.

[NaughtyTiger]

I'd be OK with a build a bear type mechanic for companions and mounts. Looking at CR1/2 beasts a base companion would be:


fly should cost "2" bonuses or such
but yeah, something like this.

[Rukelnikov]

This is how they should have done it from day 1...

buy properties like: burrow speed, climb speed, fly speed, poison, medium size, large size,... it would let the flavor of the beast be more important that the mechanics
well, my guy is a desert dweller, so giant lizard or snake makes more sense, but a wolf has pack tactics, so....


I'd be OK with a build a bear type mechanic for companions and mounts. Looking at CR1/2 beasts a base companion would be:

Medium Size
AC 13(Natural Armor), Base HP 13 (2D8)
Stat Array(Player can choose): 14, 14, 12, 10, 6, 2(Must be Int)
Pick One Skill
Natural Weapon Attack 1d6+Dex or Str

Pick 3 Bonuses:

+1 to a stat
+1 AC
Upgrade weapon attack die
Upgrade HP die
Fly/Swim/Burrow Speed
Extra skill proficiency
Pack Tactics
Keen Senses
Pounce
Constrict
Etc...

Can fluff the type of creature to whatever you like for a theme.

I'd be ok with this for a Summoner type character, but not for a Beastmaster. I'm making a bond with an existing creature, I'm not creating one from scratch, adding stuff on top of the base stat block is the way to go IMO, cause it also makes companions different. If a tiger, a dire wolf, and a boar are exactly the same creature with different skin then it doesn't feel like a real creature, its a summon or construct or something.

[NaughtyTiger]

I'd be ok with this for a Summoner type character, but not for a Beastmaster. I'm making a bond with an existing creature, I'm not creating one from scratch, adding stuff on top of the base stat block is the way to go IMO, cause it also makes companions different. If a tiger, a dire wolf, and a boar are exactly the same creature with different skin then it doesn't feel like a real creature, its a summon or construct or something.

i get that, but then you are going to choose the optimal creature:

wolf is clearly better than badger
flying poisonous snake is clearly better than pony.
pteradon is better than falcon.

less about the kind of beast a happy go lucky gnome would bond with more about how to get the most bang for your buck.

[Rukelnikov]

i get that, but then you are going to choose the optimal creature:

wolf is clearly better than badger
flying poisonous snake is clearly better than pony.
pteradon is better than falcon.

less about the kind of beast a happy go lucky gnome would bond with more about how to get the most bang for your buck.

Yeah, but optimization will always be there as long as there is diversity, and if I have to choose between those I'd go for diversity.