Silly Spell Research Question

[Kalkra]

So, I know that the rules for researching spells are meant for DMs, and therefore have a lot of handwaving and "figure it out, use your judgement" stuff, rather than hard-and-fast rules, but is there any RAW reason that you can't research spells higher than 9th level? (I know about Mystra's Ban, I'm ignoring that).

[Kaleph]

Not sure if it's what you're asking for, but it seems that a spell's level ranges only between 0 and 9: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/spellDescriptions.htm#level

A spell > level 9 is an epic spell (I'm quite sure you may find some RAW about it, but I haven't the paragraph at hand right now).

Also, I cannot figure out how you'd cast it, since classes haven't normally 10th (or higher) level slots - but that's not exactly what you're asking.

Edit: probably you are actually playing epics, and you have 10th level slots through feats...

Edit: ninja'd

[Zanos]

Epic characters can have slots above 9th level with the improved spell capacity feat.

[Kalkra]

Not sure if it's what you're asking for, but it seems that a spell's level ranges only between 0 and 9: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/spellDescriptions.htm#level

That doesn't say they can't be more than level 9, just that you won't find any that are.

[Kaleph]

That doesn't say they can't be more than level 9, just that you won't find any that are.

No, it doesn't say that. It says that the spell level is comprised between 0 and 9.

Also, a spell will be bound to a class (or several classes), say wizard. And I'd argue that you cannot have a level 10 wizard spell, as the class lists no level 10 spellcasting.

[MrSandman]

So, I know that the rules for researching spells are meant for DMs, and therefore have a lot of handwaving and "figure it out, use your judgement" stuff, rather than hard-and-fast rules, but is there any RAW reason that you can't research spells higher than 9th level? (I know about Mystra's Ban, I'm ignoring that).

If I recall correctly, the Epic Handbook stated that spell slots above 9th-level were only there to be used with metamagic feats, because spells more powerful than level 9 were, by definition, epic.

So, technically any spell higher than 9th level you could research would be an epic spell and would follow the rules for researching epic spells.

[Vaern]

So, technically any spell higher than 9th level you could research would be an epic spell and would follow the rules for researching epic spells.
That's not exactly true.

A spellcaster who can cast epic spells has a number of open epic spell slots per day equal to one-tenth his or her ranks in the Knowledge skill appropriate to the spell and the caster’s class.
Spells above 9th-level are "epic" in the sense that they aren't generally achievable by characters pre-epic levels, but they aren't "epic" in the sense that they can be used to cast epic spells from. Epic spells use their own spell slots that are completely independent of your class's normal spell slots.
Spell slots of 10th-level or above can be spent to cast non-epic spells of lower level, or to apply metamagic feat to spells which would increase their level above 9th level.

That said, the tables involved with the creation of new spells in the DMG caps out at 9th-level spells. The guidelines for creating new spells say to use existing spells as a guideline for balancing your new creations, and there are no existing spells of 10th-level or higher to balance your new spells against. The Epic Level Handbook says that spellcasters who exceed 9th-level spells have achieved a transcendent level of power at which classification of spell power by level loses all meaning.

I'd personally say that you could use spell research to recreate an existing spell that is augmented by a metamagic feat. If a sorcerer wants to create a version of a 9th level spell that is inherently extended or widened so that casting it doesn't increase casting time as using metamagic normally does, for example, I'd say go for it. As for creating unique new spell effects beyond 9th level, though, I'd personally vote against it.

[MrSandman]

That's not exactly true.

Spells above 9th-level are "epic" in the sense that they aren't generally achievable by characters pre-epic levels, but they aren't "epic" in the sense that they can be used to cast epic spells from. Epic spells use their own spell slots that are completely independent of your class's normal spell slots.
Spell slots of 10th-level or above can be spent to cast non-epic spells of lower level, or to apply metamagic feat to spells which would increase their level above 9th level.

That said, the tables involved with the creation of new spells in the DMG caps out at 9th-level spells. The guidelines for creating new spells say to use existing spells as a guideline for balancing your new creations, and there are no existing spells of 10th-level or higher to balance your new spells against. The Epic Level Handbook says that spellcasters who exceed 9th-level spells have achieved a transcendent level of power at which classification of spell power by level loses all meaning.


Mmmh... yes? That's what I had already said.
Spell slots above level 9 are to be used on non-epic spells modified by metamagic feats, spells more powerful than level 9 follow their own rules.