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View Full Version : Putting Variants Together: The Faithful Thug



Fax Celestis
2007-10-02, 06:34 PM
Mixing together a few variants, one can come up with a rather decent representation of a hit-and-run tactictian who fights in the name of his deity. Surprisingly, this uses the Fighter as a base, and draws on fighter variants from UA, CCham, Dungeonscape, and the PHB-II.

{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special

1st|
+1|
+2|
+0|
+0|Hit-And-Run Tactics

2nd|
+2|
+3|
+0|
+0|Dungeon Crasher

3rd|
+3|
+3|
+1|
+1|

4th|
+4|
+4|
+1|
+1|Aligned Strike

5th|
+5|
+4|
+1|
+1|

6th|
+6/+1|
+5|
+2|
+2|

7th|
+7/+2|
+5|
+2|
+2|

8th|
+8/+3|
+6|
+2|
+2|Armor of God

9th|
+9/+4|
+6|
+3|
+3|

10th|
+10/+5|
+7|
+3|
+3|Resolute

11th|
+11/+6/+1|
+7|
+3|
+3|

12th|
+12/+7/+2|
+8|
+4|
+4|Counterattack

13th|
+13/+8/+3|
+8|
+4|
+4|

14th|
+14/+9/+4|
+9|
+4|
+4|Bonus Feat

15th|
+15/+10/+5|
+9|
+5|
+5|

16th|
+16/+11/+6/+1|
+10|
+5|
+5|Overpowering Attack

17th|
+17/+12/+7/+2|
+10|
+5|
+5|

18th|
+18/+13/+8/+3|
+11|
+6|
+6|Bonus Feat

19th|
+19/+14/+9/+4|
+11|
+6|
+6|

20th|
+20/+15/+10/+5|
+12|
+6|
+6|Bonus Feat

[/table]
Proficiencies: Simple amd martial weapons, light armor.
Skills: 4+Int, as fighter, plus Bluff, Gather Information, Knowledge (local), and Sleight of Hand.
Hit-And-Run Tactics: initiative boost and add Dex to damage against flat-footed foes. (Drow of the Underdark)
Dungeon Crasher: deal extra damage for pushing people into objects
(Dungeonscape)
Aligned Strike: swift action, treat weapon as morally aligned (CCham)
Armor of God: immediate action, sacrifice Will save for AC bonus. (CCham)
Resolute: immediate action, sacrifice 1/2 of BAB for Will bonus. (CCham)
Counterattack: Full round action, counterattack foes that attack you. (PHB-II)
Overpowering Attack: Full round action, attack once and deal double damage. (PHB-II)


...it's interesting to see what you can do with just a few alternative class features.

goat
2007-10-02, 07:15 PM
5-7 is a hefty chunk of dead level.

I did once notice that if you use the wizard-with-fighter-feats varient from UA, and then allow you to swap the Fighter bonus feats with sneak attack as though you were a Fighter, you can get a wizard who trades his bonus feats and free scribe scroll for full sneak attack progression. That could make for a hefty spellwarp sniper build if you could talk your DM into allowing it...

Jasdoif
2007-10-02, 07:46 PM
5-7 is a hefty chunk of dead level.

I did once notice that if you use the wizard-with-fighter-feats varient from UA, and then allow you to swap the Fighter bonus feats with sneak attack as though you were a Fighter, you can get a wizard who trades his bonus feats and free scribe scroll for full sneak attack progression. That could make for a hefty spellwarp sniper build if you could talk your DM into allowing it...The problem is that the wizard variant (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#wizard) doesn't get the fighter's bonus feat progression; it gets fighter bonus feats in place of the wizard ones. As in, you get a fighter bonus feat at 1st, 5th, 10th, 15th, and 20th.

That makes applying the fighter variant (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#fighter) a huge stretch....

Fax Celestis
2007-10-02, 07:49 PM
5-7 is a hefty chunk of dead level.

6 is a pseudodead level: Not only do your saves improve, you get an extra attack, and your Dungeon Crasher significantly augments.

Fax Celestis
2007-10-02, 07:51 PM
The problem is that the wizard variant (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#wizard) doesn't get the fighter's bonus feat progression; it gets fighter bonus feats in place of the wizard ones. As in, you get a fighter bonus feat at 1st, 5th, 10th, 15th, and 20th.

That makes applying the fighter variant (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#fighter) a huge stretch....

But he does make an interesting point regarding equivalencies. As exhibited by both that variant and the Feat Rogue variant, we know that a die of Sneak Attack is approximately equivalent to a Bonus Feat.

Jasdoif
2007-10-02, 08:01 PM
But he does make an interesting point regarding equivalencies. As exhibited by both that variant and the Feat Rogue variant, we know that a die of Sneak Attack is approximately equivalent to a Bonus Feat.I think you can consider it equivalent, since that variant also says it can be applied to the thug, who doesn't get the bonus feat at 1st. Only difference is that you get the bonus feats on even and the sneak attack on odd.. Hrmm. Speaking of a thug-with-sneak-attack...would Telling Blow help that one out?

All this assumes you're considering the variant to be balanced, of course.

SurlySeraph
2007-10-02, 08:12 PM
I like these "Stack o' Variant" classes quite a bit. Are you thinking of making one with the Ranger?

RTGoodman
2007-10-02, 09:03 PM
6 is a pseudodead level: Not only do your saves improve, you get an extra attack, and your Dungeon Crasher significantly augments.

I don't know much about all the different variants you've used, but wouldn't you still get 2 feats at 6th level (regular feat plus one bonus fighter feat)? So that makes it a decent level (2 feats, extra attack, improved saves, and better dungeon-crashing).

brian c
2007-10-02, 09:12 PM
I don't know much about all the different variants you've used, but wouldn't you still get 2 feats at 6th level (regular feat plus one bonus fighter feat)? So that makes it a decent level (2 feats, extra attack, improved saves, and better dungeon-crashing).

You still get the one regular feat, but you give up the bonus feat for Dungeon Crasher. The only times you get bonus feats are the ones listed in the table (14, 18, 20)

RTGoodman
2007-10-02, 09:17 PM
Oh, okay, thanks - I totally missed that bonus feats were specifically listed. So now I wonder, is this Dungeon Crasher variant worth giving up bonus feats for? I mean, a lot of people say that a Fighter getting bonus feats as his only class feature is weak, but it seems to me that they could be at least better than getting better at pushing people into stuff.

So, is this Dungeon Crasher variant good for anything besides being cool-sounding?

Dr. Weasel
2007-10-02, 09:34 PM
So, is this Dungeon Crasher variant good for anything besides being cool-sounding?

It's good for being the most *Manly* fighting style in the world:


You push badguys...


(You're following me?)


...into stuff.


Just try to say that is not, in fact, awesome.

Mechanically, you do a nice heap of damage, but it's the 'cool points' that really make this so worthwhile.

RTGoodman
2007-10-02, 09:38 PM
It's good for being the most *Manly* fighting style in the world:

You push badguys...


(You're following me?)


...into stuff.

Just try to say that is not, in fact, awesome.

Mechanically, you do a fair amount of damage, but it's the 'cool points' that really make this so worthwhile.


Yeah, that's kinda what I imagined. I should probably go check out Dungeonscape at some point, if only to support Rich. Also, apparently everyone likes the Factotum, and I feel like I'm the only one who doesn't know anything about it.