The Old Republic vs The UNSC

[Executor]

If the Old Republic (Star Wars) from the mid-Clone Wars era, were to engage in a full-scale war with the United Nations Space Command of Halo, who would emerge victorious?

After seeing the enormous Charlie Foxtrot that befell the Twelve Colonies in my other versus thread, I sought out a worthy opponent for the UNSC. For a while I considered my favourite of Sci-fi civilizations, the Protoss, but they are being somewhat overused right now and I decided to change it up with the Clone Wars-era Old Republic.

So, what can the UNSC bring to this fight? Well their premium capital ship is the Marathon-class, a 1.5km long heavy cruiser armed with a single, bow-mounted MAC cannon, a magnetic-based weapon which fires large slugs of metal at some 40% lightspeed at their opponents, as well as numerous 50mm point-defence guns, missile pods, nukes and enough armour to withstand numerous "Plasma Torpedo" hits. Supporting the Marathons are UNSC Frigates, Carriers and some of the older Halcyon-class cruisers. For infantry, they have millions of Marines all around the stretch of space they lord over, as well as the elite ODSTs (Orbital Drop Shock Troopers) and SPARTANS.

And the Republic? The main ship of the Republic is the Venator-class Cruiser/Star Destroyer. The Venator is 1.1km in length, and armed with 8 DBY-827 dual heavy turbolaser batteries. along it's broadsides. Each cannon can cause explosions with yields in the gigaton range. Along with the heavy turbolasers, the Venator also has lighter point-defense lasers, tractor beam projectors, photon torpedo tubes and several medium turbolasers (Of course, this whole thing is pulled from Wookiepedia). The Grand Army of the Republic, as it is called, consists of some 3 million Clone Troopers, each bred and trained to serve in the army, yet still retaining independent initiative. They come in numerous variaties, ranging from standard soldiers to the elite ARC commandoes. They are officered partly by their own officers and partly by Jedi commanders.

So, leaving out all the political bullcrap that caused the fall of the Republic, and leaving out all the damage the Covenant has caused, if each force was at optimal levels, who would come out victorious, Republic or UNSC?

[Emperor Tippy]

The Republic by an outrageous margin.

[LordVader]

Republic wins by sheer numbers, as always.:smallbiggrin:

Unfortunately, the fact that each turbolaser hits with the power of a super-high-yield thermonuclear warhead spells certain doom for the UNSC ships, and Jedi can take on Spartans while clones can certainly handle Marines.
Once ARCs and V-Wings start establishing air superiority over the battlefield, the ground forces are doomed as well.


And by the end of the war, I believe there were vastly more than 3 million clones, although I could very well be mistaken.

[Talkkno]

IThe Grand Army of the Republic, as it is called, consists of some 3 million Clone Troopers, each bred and trained to serve in the army, yet still retaining independent initiative. They come in numerous variaties, ranging from standard soldiers to the elite ARC commandoes. They are officered partly by their own officers and partly by Jedi commanders.

S

....
3 million "Units" there no way 3 million troopers no matter how well trained or armed can hold off armies in the quadtrillions.

[LordVader]

There has to be more than 3 million clones, once you consider the fact that all snubfighters and capital ships are crewed by clones as well.

...
That's a lot of troopers.:smalleek:

((made bugbear! Thank you <sci-fi universe> vs <sci-fi universe> threads! ^^))

[Vespe Ratavo]

As much as it pains me to say it, the Old Republic. They've got freaking Jedis.

Admittedly, Master Chief could probably cause some major damage, but the Old Republic has too many Jedi. They'd slice him up in seconds.

However, were this hypothetical scenario to take place in a video game, the UNSC would win absolutely. They'd have hundreds of thousands of constantly respawning Elites and Spartans, and everyone knows they totally nerf Jedi in games. :smallbiggrin:

[Eita]

The Republic controlled a freaking galaxy. The UNSC felt the loss of 12 worlds to be enormous.

In short, it wouldn't even be a fight.

[SurlySeraph]

Before too many more SW fanboys beat me to it: Jedi beat everything. That's just how they are.

The UNSC is on a plausible scale. In Star Wars, the creators think of reasonable, scientifically justified figures for everything, and then slap 4 or 5 zeroes onto the end. Star Wars is too ridiculous to ever lose.

[Talkkno]

Before too many more SW fanboys beat me to it: Jedi beat everything. That's just how they are.

The UNSC is on a plausible scale. In Star Wars, the creators think of reasonable, scientifically justified figures for everything, and then slap 4 or 5 zeroes onto the end. Star Wars is too ridiculous to ever lose.

Astrophycist *Cough*
http://www.theforce.net/swtc/index.html

[LordVader]

Before too many more SW fanboys beat me to it: Jedi beat everything. That's just how they are.

The UNSC is on a plausible scale. In Star Wars, the creators think of reasonable, scientifically justified figures for everything, and then slap 4 or 5 zeroes onto the end. Star Wars is too ridiculous to ever lose.

Trust me, 40k hands it it's rear end.:smallbiggrin:

[SurlySeraph]

Trust me, 40k hands it it's rear end.:smallbiggrin:

Well, yes, in parts. But 40K isn't even pretending to pretend to be halfway near something vaguely resembling plausibility.

[LordVader]

Actually, in some parts, yes, it is plausible. They use vast amounts of cannon/projectile weapons instead of superpowerful lasers in space combat, and the Imperial Guard is actually fairly believable, as it's basically your modern infantry with weak laser guns.

Now, once you get off the Imperial Guard, Space Marines and most notably the Orks, who are extremely "realistic", things start going downhill.:smallbiggrin:

[Thanatos 51-50]

Not to jump on the bandwagon, but the Republic would beat the UNSC into a bloody pulp.
Why?

Simple use of air and space superiortiy.
They have better, more varied fighters, and not just a whole bunch of cruisers and pelicans.

The one trump card that the UNSC holds is its SPARTAN-II units. We must take into account, here, that the SPARTAN-IIs are basically Jedi gunlsigners with neat armor.

The Jedi would obliterate MC. If he were on his own. A higher concentration of SPARTANs would lead to the Jedi bringing alot of supporting and surpressive fire with them. As soon as the Spartans are down and out, the Republic would sweep over the ground battle, just like the space battle.

Alternativly, the Republic could just not waste so many Jedi in a ground battle and blast the SPARTANs while they're being transported, and are therfore vulnerable.

[LordVader]

I have a feeling Thermal Detonators would also do wonders against Spartans, since they're basically uberpowerful plasma grenades, and we've seen how well MC holds up against grenades, or rather, doesn't.:smalltongue:

[Eita]

They don't even need the Jedi! They have an entire galaxy at their disposal! The Galactic Empire built two Death Stars, in secret, at what appears to be not a noticeably comparative cost. What we're comparing against is how much they spend elsewhere. If the Death Stars cost a ton comparatively, people would've noticed their construction. Now, if ANYONE tells me, "But that was the Empire!", I say this to them. What do you honestly think the Empire did to increase infrastructure?

The UNSC don't have anything like that kind of building capacity.

[Mr._Blinky]

Astrophycist *Cough*
http://www.theforce.net/swtc/index.html

I've seen that site, and fail to be impressed. Astrophysicist or no, he still fails to give me a plausible reason why guns that supposedly have yields in the gigaton range are still incapable of destroying anything bigger than an asteroid. And don't give me that "It's teh sh13ldses!!!!" crap, 'cause we've seen unshielded objects withstand the same amount of power. Also, astrophysics is specifically the study of celestial bodies, and while a lot of other physics is required to do that, it doesn't automatically make him an expert on, say, futuristic laser weapons. I should know, my brother's an astrophysicist.

As for the OP, yeah, Republic would dominate, mostly because Star Wars writers have absolutely no concept of real physics. Now in terms of which I'd like to win, it'd be UNSC, because at least they have some idea of the physics they're bandying around. Plus, they've got AIs.

Spartan vs. Jedi really depends on numbers. 1 vs. 1? Jedi slaughters. But I'd say that the bigger the numbers get, the better the Spartans do. Since we have yet to see Jedi block reliable projectile weapons (even with super-human reflexes, I doubt they can block 10+ supersonic bullets in the space of a second), theoretically all the Spartans need to do is start concentrating their fire on one at a time, and overwhelming each Jedi's defenses before switching to the next. Of course, this only works at a good range, but it's the only chance I see them having.

[Talkkno]

I've seen that site, and fail to be impressed. Astrophysicist or no, he still fails to give me a plausible reason why guns that supposedly have yields in the gigaton range are still incapable of destroying anything bigger than an asteroid. And don't give me that "It's teh sh13ldses!!!!" crap, 'cause we've seen unshielded objects withstand the same amount of power. Also, astrophysics is specifically the study of celestial bodies, and while a lot of other physics is required to do that, it doesn't automatically make him an expert on, say, futuristic laser weapons. I should know, my brother's an astrophysicist.

There weapons can be powered down...
ROTJ novelization p.141

"We've added power to the forward shield, Admiral."

"Good. Double power on the main battery, and-"

[Winterwind]

As usual, Star Wars beats everything due to numbers, weapon power, numbers, armour/shield strength and numbers. Oh yeah, and also numbers.

What was that list of civilisations we arrived at that could beat Star Wars, LordVader? Warhammer 40k, the Culture, and what else? I seem to recall there were one or two more...

EDIT: Whoops, thought I had arrived at the end of the thread, and missed a whole bunch of posts somehow.

I wasn't that much impressed by that site either, primarily because I find it too unintelligible how he arrives at his numbers - often enough, he just states them, without direct and immediate references, as would be scientific.

[Emperor Tippy]

I still say the Protoss could do it but that is debatable.

The Ancients in stargate could do it, if commanded by a half way intelligent person (they have the tech but show a shocking lack of strategy or the proper application of tech to warfare).

The replicators from stargate might be able to as well.

The Time Lords from Dr. Who could.

[Eita]

I still say the Protoss could do it but that is debatable.

The Ancients in stargate could do it, if commanded by a half way intelligent person (they have the tech but show a shocking lack of strategy or the proper application of tech to warfare).

The replicators from stargate might be able to as well.

The Time Lords from Dr. Who could.

Especially if they pulled the stuff they did in Genesis of the Daleks.

"Okay Doctor, we want you to go way back in time and stop a galaxy wide republic from ever getting started."

[Winterwind]

Oh yeah, and I think the others were the Ancient Ones from Babylon 5, the Empire from Asimov's Foundation series, and some obscure sci-fi series I had never heard about.

[Mr._Blinky]

There weapons can be powered down...
ROTJ novelization p.141

"We've added power to the forward shield, Admiral."

"Good. Double power on the main battery, and-"

Yeah, and yet despite all of the times when they could have hit unshielded targets on full power, they didn't. Somehow, the Empire don't strike me as the kind of people who'd pull their punches just to give the other side a sporting chance. Besides, with each Star Destroyer mounting weapons that powerful, you wouldn't need the Death Star, since 4-5 of them together could pummel a planet into worthless rock in a matter of minutes. And yet it is stated in ANH that you'd need an insanely massive fleet of them to destroy a planet. Sorry, but the people who make Star Wars have absolutely no concept of scale.

[Talkkno]

Yeah, and yet despite all of the times when they could have hit unshielded targets on full power, they didn't. Somehow, the Empire don't strike me as the kind of people who'd pull their punches just to give the other side a sporting chance. Besides, with each Star Destroyer mounting weapons that powerful, you wouldn't need the Death Star, since 4-5 of them together could pummel a planet into worthless rock in a matter of minutes. And yet it is stated in ANH that you'd need an insanely massive fleet of them to destroy a planet. Sorry, but the people who make Star Wars have absolutely no concept of scale.
Plantary sheilds *Cough*

[Eita]

Yeah, and yet despite all of the times when they could have hit unshielded targets on full power, they didn't. Somehow, the Empire don't strike me as the kind of people who'd pull their punches just to give the other side a sporting chance. Besides, with each Star Destroyer mounting weapons that powerful, you wouldn't need the Death Star, since 4-5 of them together could pummel a planet into worthless rock in a matter of minutes. And yet it is stated in ANH that you'd need an insanely massive fleet of them to destroy a planet. Sorry, but the people who make Star Wars have absolutely no concept of scale.

The Death Star was made to utterly destroy a planet so the only thing left was an asteroid field. It was a scare tactic on the galactic scale.

[Foeofthelance]

What do you honestly think the Empire did to increase infrastructure?

Slave labor? Construction costs suddenly go way down if you don't have pt pay the workers. The Deathstar itself was originally designed to be a public works project, used to mine dead planets, or so its creator thought. Seriously, when it came time to build something like a Deathstar, the Emperor felt no need to go public with the plans, and nastiness was used instead.

As for the list of 'Verses that could beat Star Wars and the reasons, here we go:

Warhammer 40k (Similiar build, with more available firepower on a greater scale.
Asimov's Foundation Series (Overwhelming numbers)
Andromeda (Superior technology)
Human Imperium from Mutineer's Moon (Each ship was essentially a Death Star, and those were only the picket ships.)
Honorverse (Ships with near impentretable shields, coupled with far greater engagement ranges)
Replicators (No way to stop them, and they continously rebuild from a single survivng unit if necessary)
Anything with the title of 'Ancient' (Simply for normally being a 'Verses God powers, which really isn't fair, but we count it anyway to get back at the Jedi)

Did I miss anything?

Now, for the OP: Old Republic. Their weapons are on the same scale of pwer, if not greater, as the weapons employed by the USNC, so the armor that was such a problem for the 12 Colonies wouldn't be such an issue. Coupled with the fact that their fighters use similiar power, in similiar numbers, and they mount many more guns than a single MAC, as well as spanning most of a galaxy, they win even without the Jedi.

[Winterwind]

Did I miss anything?The Culture - vastly more overpowered in every regard.
Mantrid from LEXX - like Replicators, but on a cosmic scale (converted entire mass of a universe larger than ours into robotic drones within a few months)

[Foeofthelance]

Duly noted. Next time it comes up I shall (try to) remember to include them as well.

[Winterwind]

Duly noted. Next time it comes up I shall (try to) remember to include them as well.You have my respect for remembering as many as you did anyway. I had forgotten half of them already.

[thorgrim29]

The flood would probably win against the empire, because they can only be defeated by intellligence, luck, and actual marksmanship..... Of course, if the empire managed to destroy it pre-gravemind it would become relatively easy.....

[Mr._Blinky]

Plantary sheilds *Cough*

Yeah, for all the times planetary shields were actually present. Seriously, once they'd landed, one shot from an AT-AT should have leveled that whole valley. And despite the yield on the TIE bombers' bombs, they were still incapable of doing much to one of those asteroids, which should have been easily vaporised in one shot. So unless the SW universe has mad scientists running around attaching shields to everything they can get their hands on, that argument doesn't pan out in the slightest. Same goes for the vast number of times when ships had their shields down, and yet still took fairly significant punishment before going down, despite taking multiple hits in the gigaton range.

Also, in terms of the Death Star, with the yields usable by Star Destroyers, a small squadron, say 3-4 Destroyers, could turn a planet into rubble easy within a matter of hours. Personally, I'd rather have a massive amount of those than any number of Deathstars.

[Helgraf]

Yeah, and yet despite all of the times when they could have hit unshielded targets on full power, they didn't. Somehow, the Empire don't strike me as the kind of people who'd pull their punches just to give the other side a sporting chance. Besides, with each Star Destroyer mounting weapons that powerful, you wouldn't need the Death Star, since 4-5 of them together could pummel a planet into worthless rock in a matter of minutes. And yet it is stated in ANH that you'd need an insanely massive fleet of them to destroy a planet. Sorry, but the people who make Star Wars have absolutely no concept of scale.

To utterly destroy a planet yes. TO make it pretty much worthless, well you might recall the fate of Tarsis (or whatever that first planet from the first KotOR was called). A fleet of Sith ships did a wonderful job on that baby, and this was, what, 5000 years pre-Death Star?

[Talkkno]

Yeah, for all the times planetary shields were actually present. Seriously, once they'd landed, one shot from an AT-AT should have leveled that whole valley. And despite the yield on the TIE bombers' bombs, they were still incapable of doing much to one of those asteroids, which should have been easily vaporised in one shot. So unless the SW universe has mad scientists running around attaching shields to everything they can get their hands on, that argument doesn't pan out in the slightest. Same goes for the vast number of times when ships had their shields down, and yet still took fairly significant punishment before going down, despite taking multiple hits in the gigaton range.

Also, in terms of the Death Star, with the yields usable by Star Destroyers, a small squadron, say 3-4 Destroyers, could turn a planet into rubble easy within a matter of hours. Personally, I'd rather have a massive amount of those than any number of Deathstars.

First of all Durastell is onbiturum(Sp?) second of all that is a threate sheild not a plantary sheild is far different. You do not realise how much energy it would take the destroy a planet like that..it would be equivlent to the amount of energy the sun prodcues in 5 days...so yeah.

[Mr._Blinky]

First of all Durastell is onbiturum(Sp?) second of all that is a threate sheild not a plantary sheild is far different. You do not realise how much energy it would take the destroy a planet like that..it would be equivlent to the amount of energy the sun prodcues in 5 days...so yeah.

You do realize that in SW, freaking troop transports, small ones, are packing weapons with tonnage 4000 times as powerful as the most powerful nuke ever detonated, right? And I sincerely doubt that every last thing in the SW galaxy is made out of durasteel, which still doesn't account for the asteroids. Or the number of times when actual planets have been directly hit, and yet very little goes up but a puff of smoke and a bit of fire. The heat of the weapons present on Hoth should have easily melted the whole valley, and we know they do generate heat because of aforementioned fire. That valley should have been gone after the first shot from the AT-AT.

Also, while I will research it, I'm fairly sure the estimate of 5 days of sun power is inaccurate, considering that that would mean that if the Earth suddenly flew into the sun, it would take five days to break apart. Not sure how long it would be, but I doubt it would take that long, seeing as the sun's core puts out 9.5E10 megatons of power per second. In 5 days that'd be roughly...41,040,000,000,000,000 megatons (41.04 quadrillion). That's 41,040,000 Petatons, which is roughly 4,104,000,000 times more powerful than the smallest meteors believed to cause extinction events. I'm pretty sure you don't need that much energy to shatter an earth-sized planet. To completely obliterate it sure, but that'd go far beyond what the Deathstar is shown as doing. Besides, even if that is what the Deathstar does, it'd be stupidly pointless. And I don't mean "what was the Empire thinking?" stupid. I mean "whoever came up with that idea should have been shot to preserve what little dignity the stormtrooper gene pool has left" stupid. Considering that you could have the same essential effect for around a trillionth of the power, you'd have to have an I.Q. of about 5 to go for it.

So either Star Wars is stupid...or it's stupid. That's pretty much the only two ways of going about it.

[Eita]

Dude, you got to remember that with the Death Star, it's a small (relatively) beam firing into a planet. With the Sun, the Earth would be completely and utterly surrounded.

[Emperor Tippy]

Also, while I will research it, I'm fairly sure the estimate of 5 days of sun power is inaccurate, considering that that would mean that if the Earth suddenly flew into the sun, it would take five days to break apart. Not sure how long it would be, but I doubt it would take that long, seeing as the sun's core puts out 9.5E10 megatons of power per second. In 5 days that'd be roughly...41,040,000,000,000,000 megatons (41.04 quadrillion). That's 41,040,000 Petatons, which is roughly 4,104,000,000 times more powerful than the smallest meteors believed to cause extinction events. I'm pretty sure you don't need that much energy to shatter an earth-sized planet. To completely obliterate it sure, but that'd go far beyond what the Deathstar is shown as doing. Besides, even if that is what the Deathstar does, it'd be stupidly pointless. And I don't mean "what was the Empire thinking?" stupid. I mean "whoever came up with that idea should have been shot to preserve what little dignity the stormtrooper gene pool has left" stupid. Considering that you could have the same essential effect for around a trillionth of the power, you'd have to have an I.Q. of about 5 to go for it.
The total output of the sun for 5 days is the amount of energy it would take to death star a planet. Thats how much energy you need to overcome the gravitational binding energy and make every piece achieve escape velocity. It's an outrageous amount of power and it is used stupidly but thats what it takes.


So either Star Wars is stupid...or it's stupid. That's pretty much the only two ways of going about it.
We have a winner. Star Wars is stupid. It has an order of magnitude more stupidity than any other Sci-Fi universe except (maybe) stargate. Star Trek is filled with stupid as well (anyone remember when a kilogram of antimatter could blow up a solar system? :smallbiggrin: )

[LordVader]

I don't know, I think that race, the "Culture", or whatever it's called, is the most stupid I've ever heard of. They can track targets at beyond the speed of light, and hide in suns. Really realistic. :P

[Emperor Tippy]

I don't know, I think that race, the "Culture", or whatever it's called, is the most stupid I've ever heard of. They can track targets at beyond the speed of light, and hide in suns. Really realistic. :P

They make sense in their own universe and are consistent. Same with the Imperium of man.

The universes I mentioned are stupid because they aren't internally consistent and are filled with plot devices and deus ex machina.

[Mr._Blinky]

Dude, you got to remember that with the Death Star, it's a small (relatively) beam firing into a planet. With the Sun, the Earth would be completely and utterly surrounded.

...by the exact same amount of energy. And considering that it's actually worse the more focused it is, then getting hit by the Death Star would take less energy to accomplish the same task. It's like the difference between hitting a guy in the face with a warhammer and slamming a steel door on him. The hammer is going to hurt a lot worse, because it's spread out over a smaller surface area.


The total output of the sun for 5 days is the amount of energy it would take to death star a planet. Thats how much energy you need to overcome the gravitational binding energy and make every piece achieve escape velocity. It's an outrageous amount of power and it is used stupidly but thats what it takes.
*whistles* Damn. That's a lot of energy. Still, my point stands that only a complete moron would go through that much effort to accomplish a task that could be easily done with about a billionth the power. Honestly, it'd work as a terror weapon for about ten seconds, when a Rebel engineer would go, "Huh, you know, this is actually good for us! While that whacky ol' Emperor is off making his useless superweapon, we can just spend all our money on useful weaponry!" So yeah, if the Empire planned on making the ultimate terror weapon, it was really a catastrophic failure. Hell, at several points even the SW characters themselves admit that the Empire were morons for constructing anything on the scale of the Death Star.

But yeah, they still don't understand physics. Because there are still dozens of screw-ups left, such as the fact that not everything has shields on it, and yet still aren't merely taken out by one stray shot from one of their fighters. Considering that in Episode 1 we see hangared fighters firing inside with minimal damage to stonework, it's pretty clear that they don't actually have anywhere near the power they're supposed to. Plus, Star Wars has vehicles powered by black holes, and that's just wrong on too many levels to count.

[Winterwind]

anyone remember when a kilogram of antimatter could blow up a solar system? :smallbiggrin: It what?! :smallconfused:
How moronic is that? The only formula involved in that is probably the most well-known one there is (E=mc²), and a kilogram antimatter would produce a 40 megaton TNT explosion! Even we in our boring reality can do better than that (and have, too)!

I mean, I don't blame them for not knowing that, but it wouldn't have taken long to find out what they were writing there! What are they getting paid for?

[doliest]

Star Trek was made in the 70s, the average writer wouldn't know that I'm willing to bet, since you know Star trek's tech is all techno-babble.

[Winterwind]

Star Trek was made in the 70s, the average writer wouldn't know that I'm willing to bet, since you know Star trek's tech is all techno-babble.Sure, but that's really not difficult to find out. And if they are writers for a science fiction series, and are getting paid for that, they could at least do their homework.
Although, if it was the old series, they may have something like an excuse. Back then, stuff like this was normal.

[Emperor Tippy]

Star Wars has everything in the universe outrageously powerful (to the point where certain force users can move moons with their minds) but fails to use any of this tech in anything approaching a competent manner.

Star Trek has outrageously weak weapons and shields, at least if you go by the numbers yet uses this weak tech to do things that are orders of magnitude beyond those numbers (the most powerful figures for phasers come out with a yield of about 300 kilotons per second and an Isoton is 2.6 megatons yet 1000 of them can supposedly death star a moon). Star Trek also makes outrageous use of technobabble to accomplish anything.

Stargate has the same problems as both of the above (incompetent use of tech, and it is both simultaneously to strong and to weak for what it is shown to do) but also makes even greater use of deus ex machina.

That's one thing I like about the Halo universe, their tech is believable and is used competently.

The first 2 seasons of Andromeda are the same way, the universe is internally consistent and the tech is used competently.

[doliest]

Where do we get the figures for these weapons? I mean, if its from some fan site, that makes no sense-Also just pointing out, star trek TOS has some smart stuff that could wipe out empire if used you know as a weapon. Like say........The genesis device, oh what you use gigantic destroyable space stations, we use a single torpedo we can replicate easily, I wonder who can destroy more planets faster?:smallwink:

[Mr._Blinky]

Star Wars has everything in the universe outrageously powerful (to the point where certain force users can move moons with their minds) but fails to use any of this tech in anything approaching a competent manner.

Star Trek has outrageously weak weapons and shields, at least if you go by the numbers yet uses this weak tech to do things that are orders of magnitude beyond those numbers (the most powerful figures for phasers come out with a yield of about 300 kilotons per second and an Isoton is 2.6 megatons yet 1000 of them can supposedly death star a moon). Star Trek also makes outrageous use of technobabble to accomplish anything.

Stargate has the same problems as both of the above (incompetent use of tech, and it is both simultaneously to strong and to weak for what it is shown to do) but also makes even greater use of deus ex machina.

That's one thing I like about the Halo universe, their tech is believable and is used competently.

The first 2 seasons of Andromeda are the same way, the universe is internally consistent and the tech is used competently.
But I can forgive Stargate and OST, because both are tongue-in-cheek about it and very upfront with the "yeah, we know these are fake, just roll with it." And when asked about it they never pretend differently. SW on the other hand refuses to admit its numbers are ridiculous, and its fans will consistently try and defend it as actually making sense. Sorry, it doesn't, and the sooner they admit that the sooner the healing can begin.

And yeah, I agree that I like the Haloverse a lot because they're actually smart with how they use their physics. Kilometre long railguns FTW!

[Winterwind]

Where do we get the figures for these weapons? I mean, if its from some fan site, that makes no sense-Also just pointing out, star trek TOS has some smart stuff that could wipe out empire if used you know as a weapon. Like say........The genesis device, oh what you use gigantic destroyable space stations, we use a single torpedo we can replicate easily, I wonder who can destroy more planets faster?:smallwink:That's an easy one. Still Star Wars. For the simple reason that their ships are a few thousand times faster. You cannot blow something up which you cannot reach. The Voyager needs 70 years to cross one fourth of the galaxy. Star Wars vessels accomplish the same feat within days.

Also, excellent analysis, Emperor Tippy.

[Executor]

Mr Blinky: Yes, that is why I always divide every given Star Wars power output by a factor of at least 5. That way it's less obviously ridiculous. Moral of the Story: Never take Star Wars seriously, I know I don't.

But on topic, could the UNSC beat a more realistically-treated Old Republic? I'm in favour of the Old Republic for victory due to several factors.

1. Air superiority. So far no UNSC fighter or transport has shown the same effectiveness as the Republic's techno-Huey, the LAAT/i. I also daresay that ARC-170s and V-wings prove more than a match for Longswords

2. The Clone Troopers are most definetely superior to standard UNSC Marines. SPARTANS aside, the Clones are stronger, smarter, more loyal, better trained and probably braver than Marines.

3. Jedi as officers of the army, 'nuff said

[Mr._Blinky]

Mr Blinky: Yes, that is why I always divide every given Star Wars power output by a factor of at least 5. That way it's less obviously ridiculous. Moral of the Story: Never take Star Wars seriously, I know I don't.

But on topic, could the UNSC beat a more realistically-treated Old Republic? I'm in favour of the Old Republic for victory due to several factors.

1. Air superiority. So far no UNSC fighter or transport has shown the same effectiveness as the Republic's techno-Huey, the LAAT/i. I also daresay that ARC-170s and V-wings prove more than a match for Longswords

2. The Clone Troopers are most definetely superior to standard UNSC Marines. SPARTANS aside, the Clones are stronger, smarter, more loyal, better trained and probably braver than Marines.

3. Jedi as officers of the army, 'nuff said
Problem with that is that when working with numbers on that scale, even dividing by five isn't going to make it much better. Maybe a thousand or so would be better.

As for the UNSC, the Spartans are pretty much their only advantage, and that's all but canceled out by the Jedi. The only reason that the Jedi don't cancel them out completely is that even the best Jedi can't match the tactical brilliance of a Spartan, and while they may win in a straight up fight, the Spartan may win if he could pick the time and terrain. I sincerely doubt that even a Jedi could survive thirty or so Lotus mines blowing up in his face, even with the Force helping him evade. Also, Spartans are willing to be assassins, and are very effective at it, whereas the Jedi are probably too "honorable" to use a "dark method". Plus, I doubt a Jedi's ability to block or dodge a sniper round from behind.

[Talkkno]

As for the UNSC, the Spartans are pretty much their only advantage, and that's all but canceled out by the Jedi. The only reason that the Jedi don't cancel them out completely is that even the best Jedi can't match the tactical brilliance of a Spartan, and while they may win in a straight up fight, the Spartan may win if he could pick the time and terrain. I sincerely doubt that even a Jedi could survive thirty or so Lotus mines blowing up in his face, even with the Force helping him evade. Also, Spartans are willing to be assassins, and are very effective at it, whereas the Jedi are probably too "honorable" to use a "dark method". Plus, I doubt a Jedi's ability to block or dodge a sniper round from behind.

A Jedi could actully block the sniper shot because he is not merely usign his relfexes, he knows where the bullet will be before said Sparten can lossen a shot. Besides, did you forget in the Clone Wars cartoon where Mace Windu took that entire battle droid army by himself?
Don't forget about Battle Mediation, in Heir of the Empire, Peallon remarked that Jorrus's battle meditation made his forces 30% more efficent then any other previous performance recorded by his Star Destroyer, while commicating crystal clear with his other forces a couple light years away.

[Mr._Blinky]

A Jedi could actully block the sniper shot because he is not merely usign his relfexes, he knows where the bullet will be before said Sparten can lossen a shot. Besides, did you forget in the Clone Wars cartoon where Mace Windu took that entire battle droid army by himself?
Don't forget about Battle Mediation, in Heir of the Empire, Peallon remarked that Jorrus's battle meditation made his forces 30% more efficent then any other previous performance recorded by his Star Destroyer, while commicating crystal clear with his other forces a couple light years away.

Yeah, I figured as much, but if I were a Spartan I'd probably be able to figure out a way. Distract him with the Lotus mines and then snipe him when he jumps, for instance.

As for the Clone Wars cartoon, I've unfortunately been unable to find a copy, so I haven't had a chance to see it. Which is disappointing, since I've heard it's great.

[SmartAlec]

If the Death Stars cost a ton comparatively, people would've noticed their construction. Now, if ANYONE tells me, "But that was the Empire!", I say this to them. What do you honestly think the Empire did to increase infrastructure?

The Emperor ordered a complete galaxy-wide standardisation of military components for all branches of the military, offering lucrative contracts to those companies who did so,like Seinar Fleet Systems (the guys who brought you the TIE-Fighter), and cutting companies that didn't out of the loop.

Combined with a new efficient inventory system and transport system, this means that shipyards that struggled to produce one Victory-class Star Destroyer on a tight schedule (one of the small ones) were now able to produce two of the much larger Imperial-class Star Destroyers in the same time.

This also made the construction of the Death Star considerably easier - because every shipyard and construction unit across the galaxy was able to produce components for it; the Death Star used the same components as any other military unit.

- taken from the Rebellion Era Sourcebook

Edit: Hardly think it's 'your bad' for not knowing this obscure, pointless stuff. :)

[Eita]

Ah. My bad. Thanks.