In terms of what's in the book, how does each adventure book fair?

[Puh Laden]

I normally DM my own stuff but I am curious about the books and have been considering running one for some time. I'm particularly interested in Tomb of Annihilation, Dungeon of the Mad Mage, and Dragon Heist. I love the ideas of mega-dungeons and hex-crawls (I'm nostalgic for an era I wasn't old enough to take part in). I also enjoy the idea of having different factions the party can aid or pit against each other. In my own stuff, I try to build towards a balanced adventuring day. So how does each one fair in terms of

* Adventuring Day Balance (15-minute day vs full day)
* Encounter Variety (combat, social, exploration)
* Interesting Setpieces (for combats or exploration/puzzles/traps)
* Being a Scenario vs being a Linear Plot
* Useful Tools (Random encounter tables and mechanics, in-line monster stats, overall organization, NPC goal summary, etc.)

[Unoriginal]

I normally DM my own stuff but I am curious about the books and have been considering running one for some time. I'm particularly interested in Tomb of Annihilation, Dungeon of the Mad Mage, and Dragon Heist. I love the ideas of mega-dungeons and hex-crawls (I'm nostalgic for an era I wasn't old enough to take part in).

Dragon Heist is neither a mega-dungeon nor an hex-crawl.



In my own stuff, I try to build towards a balanced adventuring day.

Well, none of those modules are built around a balanced adventuring day. Rather, they're build around challenges appropriate for the situations.



* Adventuring Day Balance (15-minute day vs full day)

Well, all of them have the caveat "if you want to rest, there will be consequences". ToA's exploration phase is mostly "1 random encounter day+ whatever happens in the special locations", and being a megadungeon it's possible to find places to rest in DotMM, but overall when it comes the time to act the action is quick-paced enough that "we killed two ogres now we rest for the next 24h" is not seen as a good thing.


Encounter Variety (combat, social, exploration)[QUOTE]

Each of the modules has plenty of each, though Dragon Heist has more social than exploration and ToA and DotMM have a lot of exploration (and the social is in the book, but it depends on the PCs engaging with it).

[QUOTE=Puh Laden;23857757]Interesting Setpieces (for combats or exploration/puzzles/traps)

Each of those modules provide plenty of those. If I understand the question correctly.



Being a Scenario vs being a Linear Plot

I don't understand this question.

Those modules are only as linear as you wish them to be. Dragon Heist has had a lot of people complain because out of all the chapters, there is one where getting the McGuffin early *may* result in the McGuffin going "no no, continue this sequence of event", but again, it's just a possibility, and there is a justification for it.

DotMM is probably the less linear, for the good and simple reason that it's entirely reactive. It's basically all "PCs go to X place for Y reason, what do they do, and how do the people who are already there react to their presence and actions?"



* Useful Tools (Random encounter tables and mechanics, in-line monster stats, overall organization, NPC goal summary, etc.)

ToA has a lot of random encounter tables, DH and DotMM basically none (DH has faction quests, DotMM has sidequests and wandering monsters depending on the level). Thee NPC goals of each modules are clearly explained but rarely put in a summary. The monsters are pretty good. The organization of those modules is kinda eeeeeeeeh, since at some points they demand you to jump around through different pages, given the interconnected natures of situations, places and events.

[bid]

Some fare fairly well.:smallbiggrin:

BTW, you can edit the first post's title to fix the subject.

[Puh Laden]

Regarding scenario vs linear plot: I don't mind some plotting. I hear only Hoard of the Dragon Queen and maybe its sequel has "but thou must" levels of plotting. I think what I mean is how many (potentially mutually-exclusive) goals for the party does each have? To my understanding, Tomb of Annihilation is mostly about stopping the curse, Dragon Heist is about doing a heist of course but there are also factions. Is it possible to team up with multiple factions or none at all, is backstabbing them feasible? Dungeon of the Mad Mage is the one I'm least sure about. As far as I know it's just a good old-fashioned "loot the dungeon because you want treasure and there might be something evil inside that would be good to kill." Basically, how much of an impact can the party's actions have on the region, and how many different results could they have?

EDIT: regarding title, I'll leave it to make it so your comment isn't confusing (I had to read it like 5 times to see what you meant)

Also, regarding "adventuring day" when I played Curse of Strahd, it seemed that it was too often "one fight and then there's nothing else to fight nearby." Though that could have been the DM cutting stuff to fit into the semester. While I doubt that'd be a problem for Mad Mage, it is something that would probably keep me back. Just because I feel like if there's no fighting (or at least, dangerous monsters to be avoided or fight), it makes exploration less exciting to me. Random encounters work though.

My main concern for Mad Mage was how the setpieces were. If the rooms were mostly just filler, I'd drop it from the potential list. But if it has a good variety of interesting rooms, I might just go with that.

[Unoriginal]

Regarding scenario vs linear plot: I don't mind some plotting. I hear only Hoard of the Dragon Queen and maybe its sequel has "but thou must" levels of plotting. I think what I mean is how many (potentially mutually-exclusive) goals for the party does each have? To my understanding, Tomb of Annihilation is mostly about stopping the curse, Dragon Heist is about doing a heist of course

Just to be clear, while it's about an heist, it does not involve the PCs doing anything close to Ocean's 11 casino heist. Well, unless it's how they decide to go if they failed the second arc and the BBEG got the (main) McGuffin.



but there are also factions. Is it possible to team up with multiple factions or none at all, is backstabbing them feasible?

It's certainly possible to tea up with multiple factions or none. Backstabbing is possible, but the consequences would be pretty bad.



Dungeon of the Mad Mage is the one I'm least sure about. As far as I know it's just a good old-fashioned "loot the dungeon because you want treasure and there might be something evil inside that would be good to kill." Basically, how much of an impact can the party's actions have on the region, and how many different results could they have?

Well, in DotMM, there is a *lot* of competing factions among the dungeon's inhabitants, so the PCs' actions are going to affect each levels in different ways, but always in many (if they bother to engage with the NPCs in any way, including combat, at least).

ToA has some minor quests that can have a wide impact on what's happening after the campaign, but the main one is pretty much do you succeed/fail and what's the cost. Not much variations for the main quest, then.

DH can have plenty of different results depending on what the PCs did and who was the BBEG. Ultimately, though, it's up to the DM to work how their actions will affect a city as living as Waterdeep in the long term.



Also, regarding "adventuring day" when I played Curse of Strahd, it seemed that it was too often "one fight and then there's nothing else to fight nearby." Though that could have been the DM cutting stuff to fit into the semester. While I doubt that'd be a problem for Mad Mage, it is something that would probably keep me back. Just because I feel like if there's no fighting (or at least, dangerous monsters to be avoided or fight), it makes exploration less exciting to me. Random encounters work though.

ToA has a bit of "one fight then rest" issue during the hexcrawling, at least when there the PCs don't discover a special location, but that can be mitigated.

With Dragon Heist, combat doesn't happen that often, but when it does it's usually several encounters/enemy groups back to back.

DotMM doesn't risk it unless you as a DM let the PCs rest for free without consequences and don't treat the dungeon like the dynamic environment with living people that it is.



My main concern for Mad Mage was how the setpieces were. If the rooms were mostly just filler, I'd drop it from the potential list. But if it has a good variety of interesting rooms, I might just go with that.

There's defintively plenty of interesting rooms and battle sites.

[Puh Laden]

...
Well, in DotMM, there is a *lot* of competing factions among the dungeon's inhabitants, so the PCs' actions are going to affect each levels in different ways, but always in many (if they bother to engage with the NPCs in any way, including combat, at least).
...
DotMM doesn't risk it unless you as a DM let the PCs rest for free without consequences and don't treat the dungeon like the dynamic environment with living people that it is.
...
There's defintively plenty of interesting rooms and battle sites.

With these descriptions, DotMM sounds the most appealing to me. Thanks for the help.

[Unoriginal]

Just one point of precision:

It's *possible* that at some points there would be moments of "1 fight then nothing stop the PCs from resting". A big dungeon means that there are quite a bit of rooms where no one is, or the people are busy doing their own things rather than patrolling. And as I said, the encounters are more reactive than not, so it's often assumed the PCs walk on them while they're doing something.

I haven't read the whole module, either.

Doesn't mean the 5 mins workday is an issue, but it's not a constant pressure at all time either.

Basically, exercise your own caution when handling it.

[Great Dragon]

I have done ToA, and it's like the others have said: the Players must choose to interact with the NPCs; Lots of wandering around at low level, and not a lot of variety for the main plot.

I have not done CoS, SKT, OotA, or PotA.
I own - but have not read - HotDQ/RoT
----
I like combining DH with DotMM.
Especially if the Players tried to find the treasure - and even more if they were successful.

While the PCs only deal with one of the BBEGs during their Hiest, the others are still around, and can start being more interested and involved with the party over time.

The Cassalanter Noble house will continue to do everything to get both power and freedom.

"Manshoon" is a powerful Mage and has control over Zentarum in Waterdeep.

Jarlaxle and crew remains a Wild Card, sometimes helpful, and sometimes deadly.

Plus, the various goals of the Factions in Waterdeep: Harpers, Lord's Alliance, Zentarum, Xanathar's Guild, Emerald Enclave, Force Grey.

Xanathar is obsessive about "knowing everything" and controlling as many people as possible. The Beholder is also a major player in Skullport, so has influence throughout Dungeon levels 1-3.

Combined with the various Factions (and thier goals) in the Dungeon, the things the PCs (both as a Party and Individuals) did before (even at First Level) can affect what is happening the deeper they go.

There are some things that I recall as being underwhelming.

The "Vampires" on D-1 seems more like an encounter for a 1st level party, then for 5th. I intend to add a Vampire Spawn as the leader.

I was hoping for more than a few people of interest in Skullport, but I suppose it makes sense that Xanathar has almost fully taken over. Personally, I'm going to use lots of things from older editions to make things more complicated and difficult for the Beholder - and give the Players more options.

The entire set up and situation for D-6.
The "outside" encounter is rather sad, and with no real solution other than killing the Giants.
The castle was disappointing, although running the 12 foot long Faerie Dragon was fun.


And, what the Party brings back up from the Dungeon can change how they are noticed and treated by the various Villains and Factions.

Of course, lots of reading and cross referencing is required.

The big thing to remember with the Dungeon, is that Halaster takes note of who is where, and what they are doing; from the first time they enter, to the lowest level. (Not constantly, but randomly). A lot of the time, he doesn't care if those he's watching know about it - hence the large magical eyes that appear, look around for a few rounds/minutes, and then vanish. But, he has scrying abilities that don't need the eyes, and are less noticed. (An Amulet of Proof Against Detection and Location can stop most of these, but eventually Halaster will figure it out, and just physically show up to investigate in person - usually using Greater Invisibility) He also tends to influence the people and monsters within the Dungeon, as well as using Gates to bring in new creatures to add challenge, or just flavor.

Halaster should never be surprised by anyone entering the 23rd level of his Dungeon. He's the BBEG of the mega-dungeon for a reason.🤣

Plus, if you need more encounters and areas to explore, while still being 'official', you can look up older editions of Undermountain.