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zinycor
2019-04-20, 06:49 PM
So, me and my group started long ago playing AD&D, in it you could have a fighter who threw 3 daggers a turn (Or 5 at high levels, or even 6 darts a turn) which we loved instantly.

Now, we all play 5e and love it, but sadly 5e doesn't support the crazy dagger/dart thrower as well.

Any ideas on a homebrew to make this crazy submachinegun of a character?

Composer99
2019-04-20, 07:21 PM
Daggers qualify for two weapon fighting, so far as I recall, so you can toss 2 from 1st level up to 5 at 20th.

As such, I would think that if you wanted a dagger-tossing specialist, all you'd need to do is give it an extra dagger toss somewhere in its subclass feature progression.

Great Dragon
2019-04-21, 11:00 AM
Daggers qualify for two weapon fighting, so far as I recall, so you can toss 2 from 1st level up to 5 at 20th.
Part of the problem is that daggers are not considered ammunition, which is why Vax from Critical Role needed Boots of Speed to get his Dagger-Dagger-Dagger move.


As such, I would think that if you wanted a dagger-tossing specialist, all you'd need to do is give it an extra dagger toss somewhere in its subclass feature progression.
I could see a feat that granted the ability to draw daggers as part of any attack action, with maybe a +1 Dex.

For that 4 attacks + bonus action + haste action.

A dagger-throwing subclass could add an attack as a reaction.

Zhorn
2019-04-21, 11:38 AM
I've a player who's been leaning towards dagger throwing also. Granted they are a rogue instead of you fighter situation, but the general set up would be the same. Some way to get dagger into the character's hands fast enough to enable rapid throwing.
You needn't copy the Vax setup for Critical Role exactly, but it's a good start for ideas mining.

Let's say an 11th level fighter for 3 attacks. Making up some items to fit the bill.

Gloves of Blurred Motion: Gain an object interaction for every one of your attacks rather than a single object interaction per turn (draw daggers faster).

Dagger of Doubling: A wielder with a free hand can split this dagger into two identical daggers as an object interaction. The doubled daggers canít be split again. If either dagger is thrown while doubled, the hurled dagger vanishes after resolving the attack and the remaining dagger can be split again. If the wielder drops a doubled dagger or it otherwise leaves their person, it vanishes. If both daggers leave the wielderís hands at the same time, determine randomly which dagger vanishes.
Spells or effects placed on a dagger donít duplicate when the dagger is split. Any active effects on a dagger end when it vanishes. Destroying one of the doubled daggers just causes the duplicate to disappear, but any damage to a single dagger of doubling remains on both daggers when it doubles. (tweaked pathfinder item)

Bloodcloud
2019-04-22, 12:55 PM
Iíd add a martial weapon called Quickquiver that grants the ammunition property to daggers and call it a day.

Kane0
2019-04-22, 10:54 PM
Base Rule:
Thrown weapons can be drawn freely like ammunition.

Throwing Weapons (Fighting Style):
You can roll one additional weapon damage die when determining the extra damage for a critical hit with a thrown weapon attack

Two-Weapon Fighting (Fighting Style):
As per the PHB

Dual Wielder (Feat):
- While wielding a different weapon in each hand, if you make an opportunity attack you can also make an attack using your off hand against the same creature
- While wielding a different weapon in each hand, you can make an additional attack using your off hand as part of the Attack action instead of as a Bonus Action. This extra attack can only be taken once per turn, and you cannot then use your Bonus Action to make a weapon attack on the same turn
- You can draw or stow two one-handed weapons when you would normally be able to draw or stow only one

Expert Tosser (Feat):
+1 Strength or Dexterity
- You can add your Strength and Dexterity bonuses to your ranged attack and damage rolls using thrown weapons
- You can throw any weapon with a range of 20í / 60í


Make a Champion fighter to get both fighting styles and both feats or just choose one style and go for something like battlemaster for trick throws or samurai for the eventual storm of daggers at level 15. Bonus style points for going Eldritch Knight and picking up Sword Burst, Cloud of Daggers, etc but that isn't 'optimal'

Zhorn
2019-04-23, 12:57 AM
Base Rule:
Thrown weapons can be drawn freely like ammunition.

This is a good point to cover.
RAW you can draw a weapon as part of the attack with it, but it does count as an object interaction which has the limit of one per turn.

Other Activity on Your Turn
You can also interact with one object or feature of the environment for free, during either your move or your action. For example, you could open a door during your move as you stride toward a foe, or you could draw your weapon as part of the same action you use to attack.

Wielding a light thrown weapon in each hand lets you use TWF to make a bonus action throw attack. This will vary slightly between DMs, whether they require you to have a weapon in each hand at the moment you want to use the Bonus Action attack, or be holding a weapon in each hand during or at the moment of taking your Attack Action to qualify. For most reasonable DM's this is much of a muchness, but it's always worth knowing how you want to play it out in case of stricter RAW interpretations.

Single attack for the Attack Action:
Start turn with a dagger in each hand
Attack Action: throw dagger
Object Interaction: draw dagger
Bonus Action: throw off-hand dagger
End turn wielding one dagger

Two attacks for the Attack Action (5th level martial):
Start turn with a dagger in each hand
Attack Action (attack 1): throw dagger
Object Interaction: draw dagger
(attack 2): throw dagger
Bonus Action: throw off-hand dagger

Dagger Dagger Dagger
End turn with no daggers in hand

Three attacks for the Attack Action (11th level fighter):
Start turn with a dagger in each hand
Attack Action (attack 1): throw dagger
Object Interaction: draw dagger
(attack 2): throw dagger
(attack 3): throw dagger
Bonus Action: no daggers in hand :(
End turn with no daggers in hand

Three attacks for the Attack Action (11th level fighter) plus the Dual Wielder feat:
Start turn with a dagger in each hand
Attack Action (attack 1): throw dagger
(attack 2): throw dagger
Object Interaction: draw two daggers
(attack 3): throw dagger
Bonus Action: throw off-hand dagger
End turn with no daggers in hand

Beyond that is where custom rules and items will need to come into play to get more dagger throws, such as Kane0's suggested base rule.

Breccia
2019-04-23, 11:22 AM
In 5E, the fighting style "Archery" says +2 to ranged attacks, not bows. Add a high Dex and you'll never miss.

Problem is, the dagger does significantly less damage than the bow and the ammunition weighs more. A 5th-level fighter in a 9-round fight could potentially throw 20 daggers. 20 arrows is one pound, 20 daggers is twenty pounds. And Str isn't your highest stat, probably, so at some point those pounds will be a problem. As cool as the idea is, you're sacrificing damage and utility for hit chance. But you can use a shield, so consider having a shield made with 12 dagger sheathes on the grip side. Hell, paint it like a timepiece and build your character around that. "At the sound of the chime," Renzigg yells as he leaps around the corner, "it will be Knife O'Clock!"

If you are stuck with the normal rules:
1) Go Battlemaster. The maneuvers don't say it has to be a melee attack, after all. Disarming someone with a thrown dagger sounds like fun.
2) Don't be ashamed to go medium or light armor. At 1st level, studded + shield +Dex 18 is probably better than anyone else at the table. Medium Armor Master might be worth taking.
3) Get a magic dagger that returns when thrown first chance you get.
4) Consider the Sharpshooter Feat. That +2 attack bonus for your fighting style will make it far easier to accept the -5 attack roll for +10 damage.

Granted none of that makes you objectively better than an archer. You will still have niche advantages -- such as, when the monster charges you, you don't need to swap weapons and your AC is better, and don't need to spend money on magic ammo. While most of the rules that favor tiny weapons (such as being swallowed whole) are gone, there are a few left.

But you asked about homebrew. These are the simplest ideas I could come up with:
1) Ask the DM if you can modify Crossbow Expert and/or Polearm Master to use thrown daggers instead. The first will let you draw daggers for free, but also get a bonus thrown dagger as long as you use one-handed weapons...like thrown daggers. The second will let you throw daggers as reactions when people get too close. Either potentially gives you an extra attack per round.
2) Ask the DM if you can make a Monk, but replace "unarmed" with "thrown daggers".
3) Ask the DM if you can take the Duellist fighting style for thrown and melee daggers, at the expense of any other weapons.

The other ideas on this thread are probably better. Just wanted to add a few options.

MagneticKitty
2019-04-23, 12:08 PM
Other than the proposed ideas, you could try:

Sunsoul monk, but your beams are manifested daggers

Eldritch blast warlock, but your ebs are manifested force daggers. You could be the sharpshooter with crazy range. You could flavor them as playing cards and be gambit

DracoDei
2019-04-27, 11:12 PM
Okay, it seems I am blessed with the existance of this thread.

I just made an ability for a homebrew character I am playing that involves throwing daggers. Let me see if I can take a stab at adapting it to what you have here. Going to lowball it, with the hopes you can fit it into whatever archetype or feat you end up making.

I may include higher power versions if asked, or just if I feel like it.

First draft, please critique:

Intercepting Daggers
You may use a reaction to enter "interception mode" provided: You took the Attack action on your turn to only throw daggers and/or darts or do nothing at all and ended your turn with each of your hand either empty or holding a dagger or dart.
This mode lasts until you complete your next action.
If you are in interception mode you gain a number of special reactions equal to the maximum number of thrown daggers/dart attacks you COULD have made, but DIDN'T plus one.
Any time you see a projectile pass within 20' of you you may use one of these special reactions to try to intercept it. You throw a dagger or dart at it. If your attack roll beats that of the original attack with that projectile then the attack strikes your dagger/dart at a point of your choosing along its intended path of travel within 20' of you. If the attack did not originally involve an attack roll (a magic missile or one of the orbs of a Meteor Swarm) then the attacker rolls one for this purpose. Note that in the case of the Meteor Swarm this doesn't keep the orb from exploding, only causes it to explode higher up that it normally would (as it plummets down and strikes your counter-shot, rather than its intended point of explosion). You may only attack a given projectile once with this ability. You may, however react to generate these special reactions at the same instant you then spend one of them to attack a projectile.
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Higher powered version would replace the number of attacks you forwent with your dexterity modifier (meaning you don't have to hold back on your offense, and don't need to have used the Attack action on your turn) and/or increase the range you cover. To nerf it even further, give your interception attack rolls a -2 or more to reflect the extreme difficulty of such shots.

Zhorn
2019-04-28, 12:20 AM
In 5E, the fighting style "Archery" says +2 to ranged attacks, not bows. Add a high Dex and you'll never miss.
...
...Consider the Sharpshooter Feat...

I hate to nitpick over this one, but unfortunately Archer Fighting Style is worded as "with ranged weapons" not "with ranged attacks". While thrown weapons can make ranged attacks, they are still classed as melee weapons :smallfrown:

https://www.sageadvice.eu/2015/06/20/ranged-and-thrown-weapon/

The wording on Sharpshooter can make decoding it a little messy, depending on if the DM reads ranged weapon attack as [ranged weapon] attack or ranged [weapon attack].
By Sage Advices ruling, points one and two of Sharpshooter can be used with thrown weapons.

https://www.sageadvice.eu/2016/05/12/does-sharpshooter-feat-work-with-daggers/

So Archery Fighting Style will need a homebrew/houserule to use at all,
and Sharpshooter will need a homebrew/houserule to use the -5/+10 benefit.
Being this is in the homebrew forum, that shouldn't be an issue, but it's always a good idea to understand the rules around what your intending to do before adding in your own custom rules to the table.

Darts on the other hand do qualify for both Archery Fighting Style and Sharpshooter in full, as they are classed as Simple Ranged Weapons.