Blindness/Deafness. What does Blindness do to spellcasters?

[Lorddenorstrus]

So, im making a necromancer one of the 2nd level spells is blindness/deafness. Not a spell I've really looked at before since this is new territory for me play wise. I was looking in the books for RAW written penalties for blindness... and can only find a penalty to attack roll spells at best. And maybe an RAI construed conclusion that "target" is a visual requirement of a spell. But, wizards and like can still perfectly aim for min/max effectiveness their Fireballs and the like apparently? Or am I missing something?

[DrMotives]

Depends on the spell. Spells like rays that require attack rolls are pretty easy, then blindness affects them just as a it affects any other ranged attacker. Something that just lets you pick targets and hurt them, like magic missile, won't be affected at all. But a fireball is where it gets more complex. A blind spellcaster can still say they're targeting, say, 50 feet in front of them and put the spell exactly there. But is that where the target creature is? They need to use other senses, good guesses, or to be guided by another, sighted character. This is real DM adjudication territory, as it won't always be obvious. If the necromancer who casts blindness has a decent move silently check, they could move around and stay safe from the blind enemy. A heavy armor cleric with no skill investment in move silently might not get as much use out of blinding the enemy as other necromancers. You also might combine blindness with incorporeal undead minions; those things are naturally silent unless the description says otherwise. Blind an enemy and sic a wraith on them, it's like shooting fish in a barrel.

[Lorddenorstrus]

Depends on the spell. Spells like rays that require attack rolls are pretty easy, then blindness affects them just as a it affects any other ranged attacker. Something that just lets you pick targets and hurt them, like magic missile, won't be affected at all. But a fireball is where it gets more complex. A blind spellcaster can still say they're targeting, say, 50 feet in front of them and put the spell exactly there. But is that where the target creature is? They need to use other senses, good guesses, or to be guided by another, sighted character. This is real DM adjudication territory, as it won't always be obvious. If the necromancer who casts blindness has a decent move silently check, they could move around and stay safe from the blind enemy. A heavy armor cleric with no skill investment in move silently might not get as much use out of blinding the enemy as other necromancers. You also might combine blindness with incorporeal undead minions; those things are naturally silent unless the description says otherwise. Blind an enemy and sic a wraith on them, it's like shooting fish in a barrel.

I mean, I suppose, I was hoping for something more set in stone so I could.. know how effective the spell will be. It feels like an oversight to me that there aren't written rules for the targetting system of spells in relation to visual / sight. I'll just have to ask DM beforehand how he rules blindness so I know whether or not to waste an action on it in play.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Any spell that requires line of sight (any non-touch spell with a 'target' but not rays) can't be used if you're blind, except on yourself.

You could say he can't effectively target area effects either, unless they're targeted on himself. If he's blind he can't see where the opponents are or even what direction he's aiming it.

This leaves only spells that require an attack roll (rays and touch spells), which have a 50% miss chance, assuming he can pinpoint the target and aims at the right square.

[MesiDoomstalker]

If you are Blind, everything is functionally Invisible to you. You cannot target something that is invisible, so any targetable spell without an attack roll is a no-go (except on yourself). Area effects, especially ones that don't originate from your square, can still be used but there is no real mechanics for determining how a Blinded character could pick their origin.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

If you are Blind, everything is functionally Invisible to you. You cannot target something that is invisible, so any targetable spell without an attack roll is a no-go (except on yourself). Area effects, especially ones that don't originate from your square, can still be used but there is no real mechanics for determining how a Blinded character could pick their origin.There are certain Touch spells that sometimes don't require an attack roll, such as cure spells on allies. I imagine if your allies know you're blind and are willing, they would actively ensure that you know which spaces they're in and will ensure you can touch them properly to get the spell off.

...and that sounds surprisingly dirty.

Regardless, it'll probably be up to the DM to make the call on how that works, since I don't think it's covered in the rules.

[Zaq]

There’s also the standard effects of being blinded, like losing your DEX to AC and moving at half speed.

[KillianHawkeye]

There are rules for pinpointing the location of invisible creatures, which would apply just as well if you're blind or if the creatures are actually invisible. You have to be really good at listening, though.

If you can do that, or maybe get some help from your friends, you ought to be able to target an area spell well enough. A cone or something else that emanates from your own position would be easier than something like a fireball that has a range element to it, because then all you're really doing is choosing the direction.

[Ramza00]

Spells with Targets or Direction (such as targeting squares) can not be used without other forms of sensory information such as listen checks, scent, etc.

Yet with creative allies they can give you a direction on how to target a square for certain spells like fireball but there is still a chance you get it wrong. But spells where you are targeting a specific person or creature you can't do for they require line of sight. Thus you can't do things like Charm Person for Charm Person has a Target Descriptor and this is what it says about Target.



http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/spellDescriptions.htm#targetorTargets
Target or Targets
Some spells have a target or targets. You cast these spells on creatures or objects, as defined by the spell itself. You must be able to see or touch the target, and you must specifically choose that target. You do not have to select your target until you finish casting the spell.

If the target of a spell is yourself (the spell description has a line that reads Target: You), you do not receive a saving throw, and spell resistance does not apply. The Saving Throw and Spell Resistance lines are omitted from such spells.

Some spells restrict you to willing targets only. Declaring yourself as a willing target is something that can be done at any time (even if you’re flat-footed or it isn’t your turn). Unconscious creatures are automatically considered willing, but a character who is conscious but immobile or helpless (such as one who is bound, cowering, grappling, paralyzed, pinned, or stunned) is not automatically willing.

Some spells allow you to redirect the effect to new targets or areas after you cast the spell. Redirecting a spell is a move action that does not provoke attacks of opportunity.

So technically a blind person can still charm person if they are touching the person, but yeah pretty much being blind sucks for spellcasters.

[KillianHawkeye]

Being blind sucks for everyone. :smallwink:

[Elkad]

This is one thing that brings a VTT with vision blocking to the forefront over minis on the board.

You can just take that character's vision away, and make the player describe what he wants to do. "I cast a fireball, detonation point is 70' to my right-front. That should be northeast, unless that grapple spun me around" (spoiler: it did). He can also move around blindly with the arrow keys on his keyboard, and I'll tell him when he runs into a wall.

Though I have done it by making the player leave the room instead of using a VTT
I allow the other players to shout directions (a couple seconds worth). That does mean the monsters will overhear (comprehension may be lacking of course)