Level Adjustment and determining bonuses

[Armyguyclaude]

Hi!

I was looking into cave troll under Monster Manual 3 and it says it has a Level Adjustment of +6. I want to take it, but what bonuses do I get for things like saves, stats, skills, or HD? It's not in the Monster Manual. Just gives a level adjustment.

Thanks!

[CharonsHelper]

You want to be a cave troll? And your DM is okay with it?

I'm looking at it now. It's actually +6 LA, and has 9 HD.

So - you would count as a level 15 character before getting ANY class levels. Your saves are from getting 9 levels of giant and your stats. That's it.

Really - many races like this one technically HAVE Level Adjustments - but they aren't meant to be playable AT ALL. It would not take much of a build for a level 15 character to wipe the floor with a cave troll, even one with better stats and PC quality equipment.

Don't do it.

There are a few monsterous things which aren't bad value - and several of them have Savage Species progressions. The lycanthropes stand out as being very playable since they only have 2-3 LA, and their stat increases, decent HD, and bonus feats help make up for the taking levels in Beast instead of a PC class. But Cave Troll? No. Not viable for a PC - and not meant to be.

[Armyguyclaude]

You want to be a cave troll? And your DM is okay with it?

I'm looking at it now. It's actually +6 LA, and has 9 HD.

So - you would count as a level 15 character before getting ANY class levels. Your saves are from getting 9 levels of giant and your stats. That's it.

Really - many races like this one technically HAVE Level Adjustments - but they aren't meant to be playable AT ALL. It would not take much of a build for a level 15 character to wipe the floor with a cave troll, even one with better stats and PC quality equipment.

Don't do it.

We're doing a one shot and the only rules are

No infinite loops

No items with 9th level spells attached to them

We're doing a battle royale. I'm pretty sure they're going to be more broken than I am. I'm the noob of the group lol.

How do I determine Stat bonuses?

Thank you

[CharonsHelper]

We're doing a one shot and the only rules are

No infinite loops

No items with 9th level spells attached to them

We're doing a battle royale. I'm pretty sure they're going to be more broken than I am. I'm the noob of the group lol.

Are you going for a specific ECL (Effective Class Level)?

For a battle royale - I'd go for a one-trip pony of wackiness.

[Armyguyclaude]

Are you going for a specific ECL (Effective Class Level)?

For a battle royale - I'd go for a one-trip pony of wackiness.

I don't understand what that means specific ECL. I just know we get to make 15th level characters. So if I make a Cave troll I still get 9 levels to work with right?

I'm trying to make an uber zombie :)

How do I determine Stat bonuses?

[JNAProductions]

I don't understand what that means specific ECL. I just know we get to make 15th level characters. So if I make a Cave troll I still get 9 levels to work with right?

I'm trying to make an uber zombie :)

How do I determine Stat bonuses?

ECL is Effective Character Level.

You determine it by adding all Racial Hit Dice, Level Adjustment, and class levels together.

So, a Cave Troll (with 9 HD and +6 LA) you're already at ECL 15.

In other words... You don't get 9 levels. You don't even get one.

[Armyguyclaude]

ECL is Effective Character Level.

You determine it by adding all Racial Hit Dice, Level Adjustment, and class levels together.

So, a Cave Troll (with 9 HD and +6 LA) you're already at ECL 15.

In other words... You don't get 9 levels. You don't even get one.

I think we're just using the LA. I know our DM hasn't added HD from a race before in totally for a ECL I think. I can ask though.

[JNAProductions]

I think we're just using the LA. I know our DM hasn't added HD from a race before in totally for a ECL I think. I can ask though.

Well, there's a lot of races that DON'T have RHD but DO have LA.

Like Drow, for instance. Or most Templates.

Regardless, ask. Because if he's really using LA but not using RHD... Cheese will abound, I am sure.

[Armyguyclaude]

ECL is Effective Character Level.

You determine it by adding all Racial Hit Dice, Level Adjustment, and class levels together.

So, a Cave Troll (with 9 HD and +6 LA) you're already at ECL 15.

In other words... You don't get 9 levels. You don't even get one.

So it turns out you're right lol. I've been doing things wrong all this time. I need to rethink my life now xD

[JNAProductions]

So it turns out you're right lol. I've been doing things wrong all this time. I need to rethink my life now xD

Oh no, you played a game wrong! The horror, THE HORROR! :P

In all seriousness, 3.5 is so borked that screwing up RHD and LA ain't a huge deal. Play it right, unless directed otherwise by houserules, but honestly, the main point of the game is to have fun.

If you and everyone else at the table is having fun, who cares how many rules you miss or screw up?

[Armyguyclaude]

Oh no, you played a game wrong! The horror, THE HORROR! :P

In all seriousness, 3.5 is so borked that screwing up RHD and LA ain't a huge deal. Play it right, unless directed otherwise by houserules, but honestly, the main point of the game is to have fun.

If you and everyone else at the table is having fun, who cares how many rules you miss or screw up?

This x1000

[Remuko]

I don't understand what that means specific ECL. I just know we get to make 15th level characters. So if I make a Cave troll I still get 9 levels to work with right?

I'm trying to make an uber zombie :)

How do I determine Stat bonuses?

i know this answer isnt probably relevant anymore but, for every single creature in the monster manuals that doesnt tell you the racial ability modifiers, you just subtract 11 from any odd numbered ability scores they have, and 10 from the even ones. whatever is left is the racial modifiers. Cave Troll has Str 29, Dex 13, Con 27, Int 3, Wis 13, Cha 6 as its base stats so its modifiers are Str + 18, Dex +2, Con +16, Int -8, Wis +2, Cha -4.

[Armyguyclaude]

i know this answer isnt probably relevant anymore but, for every single creature in the monster manuals that doesnt tell you the racial ability modifiers, you just subtract 11 from any odd numbered ability scores they have, and 10 from the even ones. whatever is left is the racial modifiers. Cave Troll has Str 29, Dex 13, Con 27, Int 3, Wis 13, Cha 6 as its base stats so its modifiers are Str + 18, Dex +2, Con +16, Int -8, Wis +2, Cha -4.

Thank you so much

[ShurikVch]

Note: Petitioner template removes all HD but two first; thus, Petitioner Cave Troll is much more playable
Just choose the Plane which gives its Petitioners the No Planar Commitment SQ

[Falontani]

Also look into Inevitability's LA thread. They've been going through all the monsters one by one, usually lowering the la to what it should be. It's vetted by the community, and your dm might allow those changes to level adjustment.