Feel underwhelming as the Barbarian

[Shuruke]

So
I came into this campaign at level 3
Arctic storm herald and was absolutely loving the shield (especially since against non magical weapons it might as well be 4 temp HP)
I'm also enjoying positioning to give temp hp to entire group generally negating 20-40 damage a combat

But only having the one attack has felt pretty meh
Especially when even with advantage still missing

So hit level 4
Grabbed tavern brawler to round con up from being odd and to get proficiency with improvised weapons

We've had a few sessions at level 4 and soon ill happily hit 5 and get extra attack

So during the combats it typically goes like this

Bonus action aggressive
Throw javelin or insert misc flask of x here

This came in handy with the ropes we fought but only did that on first turn because some allies got grabbed and I figured I should grab agro

I take a good chunk of damage but other than that dont do much because a.c 20 of ropers (even swinging at advantage I needed 14 or higher on dice to hit.)
So by end of that combat I had missed 3 attacks and then kust gave up and used stick of dynamite I had to finish one off.

Combat ends and we go to take our long rest (12 hour travel day and combat with ropers)

Hour goes by and then some goblins are scurrying around wanting to loot the poor fools the ropes killed
My character intimidates them away and then they come back in force with their boss

Fight goes by probably 16 goblins (given increased hp) and we take them out pretty quick with a mix of aoe spells and some dynamite leaving like 5 goblins
I go to target one that has run up and get it netted so our gwm polearm master warlock can smack him.
(Dm lets me recklessly swing with weapons and etx that are thrown)
I get a 21 to hit and miss due to me not knowing the goblin was in special full plate and a shield.
Majority of combat from their was this guy wailing on us while most of us do nothing to him

Passing saves to hold person
Missed total of twice with net before giving up.
Dropped me down to like 5 hp in two turns (level 4 I have almost 50 hp.) Because he has an effect where all his weapona attack add x d6's

So finally he fails a save to a suggestion (which the dm allowed to be used like a multiple turn command with new save every turn)
And now
He is prone
Doesnt have his shield up
And instead of trying to beat 20 a.c. I say screw it have 10d6 worth of dynamite

He makes the save and survives
So I bonus action grapple him not expecting it to work because he has high str. It works and we finish fight rather quickly.

The optimizer of group then tells me I should have been grappling sooner (despite grappling not actually really doing anything in 5e except lower movement so he couldnt stand up from prone)

End of combat
Another player makes a pass at my barbarian (I put 10 in wis and put a high stat in int rather than having a +4 dex because with half plate I have 17 a.c. anyway)

So I sat for bit thinking over why I wasnt happy with session
In the end it boiled down to

- theirs only 2 non spellcaster. The casters always feel like they are doing something since most of time we long rest alot meaning they have spells galore

- the other character is a monk who (Idk how and didnt ask because didnt wanna sound rude) did 7d6 damage in a 15 ft cone. And sincen ruling was being done wrong was getting 4 attacks a turn (this got corrected but in short anytime he did flurry of blows he was still also making martial arts attack so 2 for flurry 1 for martial arts and 1 using a 2d4 bookend/dragon dart)

In short
I'm finding it hard to have fun with only one hit or miss action a turn .the grappling as bonus action helps but then I'm not doing storm herald thing. (Took tavern brawler for when I don't have rages because was under assumption rests were gonna be scarce.)

Does anyone have any tips for how I can feel more useful in combat other than a meat sponge that stands there missing attacks.
(Mostnof time I play rogue and it always feels like I have options)

[bid]

stick of dynamite
I go to target one that has run up and get it netted so our gwm polearm master warlock can smack him.
I get a 21 to hit and miss due to me not knowing the goblin was in special full plate and a shield.
Because he has an effect where all his weapona attack add x d6's
since most of time we long rest alot meaning they have spells galore
monk who did 7d6 damage in a 15 ft cone.
That pretty much sums up what was wrong.

[Lalliman]

I feel like your problem isn't with barbarian. If you don't like missing attacks, barbarian is really good for that. And getting one attack per round is normal at that level, you only seem like an exception because you happen to have a monk and a PAM dude in your party.

The problem seems to be that your DM A) doesn't understand the game very well, thus giving an advantage to ignorant players who favourably misinterpret their class features, and B) happens to be using some stupidly-powerful enemies for some reason.

I don't think we can give you any advice on how to do better in these circumstances. Attacking, shoving and grappling are the options barbarians have, and it's a good set of options, but no amount of playing around with them will remove the swinginess if the DM keeps throwing out high-AC high-Strength creatures. I suspect things will get better automatically when you face some different encounters, and of course when you reach level 5. If it doesn't, ask your DM if you can change your build. PAM and GWM are both much better than Tavern Brawler.

As for the monk, I would guess that dealing 7d6 damage in a 15 foot cone is a house rule and / or misunderstanding on the Sweeping Cinder Strike from Way of the Four Elements. A common (and in my opinion crappy) way to buff the underpowered four elements monk is to give him extra ki equal to his wisdom. If that rule is in place and the player conveniently overlooked the limit on how much ki you can spend on a spell, he could've spent 6 ki points to cast Burning Hands as a 5th level spell, dealing 7d6 damage.

I can't say for certain since I only have your perspective, but it sounds like your DM plays fast and loose with the rules and guidelines, which means you need to be careful about any biases he may have. It's entirely possible that he read an exaggerated post online claiming that barbarians are overpowered and monks are weak, and therefor designs his monsters to counter your barbarian while letting the monk get away with whatever exploits he wants. Probably not deliberately, mind you. Talk to him about it outside of the game if you think this might be true.

[Malifice]

So during the combats it typically goes like this

Bonus action rage
Throw javelin or insert misc flask of x here


You're doing barbarian wrong.

It goes:

Rage - move - clobber.

[Keravath]

There is a lot you seem to leave unsaid.

Just a couple of clarifications.
1) Barbarians are resistant to bludgeoning, slashing and piercing damage while raging. This is not limited to weapons and is unaffected by whether the attacks or weapons are magical or not.

2) Barbarians can choose to use reckless attack on any melee weapon attack you make that turn at the cost of opponents also attacking you with advantage.

3) "Another player makes a pass at my barbarian (I put 10 in wis and put a high stat in int rather than having a +4 dex because with half plate I have 17 a.c. anyway) " - this choice is up to you but if you have good rolled stats (that a +4 would imply) then you would have better AC with high con+dex and wearing no armor than you would in half-plate. It depends on your stats. High dex also makes you better with ranged weapons. Presumably your dex is at least 14 since you mention 17 AC in half plate. Presumably your con is higher than dex?

4) Are the others in your group already 5th level? There is a significant jump in power level from 4->5 for all classes. Taking out goblins with AoE for example is much easier for 5th level casters. If you are doing it with 2nd level spells it is probably things like shatter which aren't nearly as effective.

5) Plate armor +shield is AC20. I don't know what the "special" armor worn by this goblin might be that gives it an AC of 22.

6) Adding Xd6 to a damage roll can apply to rogues if they can land a sneak attack but it requires either attacking with advantage or having an enemy of their target adjacent to the target. Otherwise, it could be the effect of a magical weapon. However, if it was sneak attack then if the conditions for it aren't satisfied then the NPC doesn't get it.

7) Hitting with a net is difficult since it is at disadvantage at all ranges unless you have a feat. Reckless attack doesn't apply to nets since a net is a martial ranged weapon and not a melee weapon. Without a feat to cancel the disadvantage (either Xbow expert or sharpshooter), nets are pretty useless. [Ooops. I missed the part where your DM lets you use reckless with thrown weapons ... I still don't think it makes nets that good but it does help]

8) You are right, grappling doesn't do much except restrict movement. There are some good applications of grappling but they are pretty situational. However, you make it sound as if grappling made it easier to defeat this opponent with high AC so I am not sure what rules were being applied.

Also, Tavern Brawler only lets you bonus action grapple if you hit with an unarmed or improvised weapon attack on your turn. It doesn't work if you are using your regular weapon. However, note that the advantage on strength checks from raging would affect your grapple attempts.

9) For monks, flurry of blows REPLACES the martial arts attack and flurry of blows uses KI. A level 4 monk has one attack and one martial arts attack each round. They can increase this by using a ki point for flurry of blows to get 2 attacks using flurry of blows as a bonus action. However, they only have 4 ki points at level 4. When these are gone they need a short rest to replenish them. The monk should only get 1 attack/round + 1 bonus action martial arts attack.

A four-elements monk could take Sweeping Cinder Strike to cast burning hands. This would do 3d6 fire damage in a 15' cone with dex save for 1/2. If they were level 5 they could up cast it with an additional ki point to cast as a level 3 spell. Each level increase however only adds 1d6 to the damage. There is no way a low level monk would be able to increase this to 7d6 unless they have some unusual house rules.

10) The PAM+GWM warlock should also have two attacks ... 1 attack action attack + 1 bonus action attack with the back end of their polearm. At your level, any use of GWM is likely hurting more than helping especially if the targets have a high AC.


Anyway, it sounds as if some of the others in your party have picked up feats and classes to get extra attacks which does help a lot at levels 1-4. Things even out a bit a level 5 when everyone picks up extra attack.

Short vs long rest resources are a different game balance issue that only the DM has any real control over.

[Shuruke]

Thanks
Guys in currently asking table about some things
And yeah my stats are

Str 18
Dex 14
Con 16
Int 17
Wis 10
Cha 13
I'm a full orc
So not sure if I mis typed but lot of time on first turn I have to use aggressive to be able to get into throwing range for javelin then move a little back so if they wanna come up they have to dash
Then on second turn I can rage and run up

(Combats have been starting between 70-80 feet since we've been fighting in weird areas)

I mainly made my character for rp and 3/4 of the table and the DM absolutely luv the half plate wearing barbarian who has a symbol of pholtus on his chest and reads books during travel.
The other two are very much in mindset of following typical themes of barbarian has no reason for int etc even tho I haven't failed a int religion, nature, or alchemy check because of bonus


Ill see how it plays out this was only time that big of an a.c has been a thing
Generally enemies have had 17+ sonce we've mainly been fighting armored and shield ppl.
Ropers have high AC and this one goblin did. I just didnt do much to the lesser goblins cuz they died before my second turn (through a 10 ft radius maltov and did 5 damage to four of them but they survived with some hp from being tougher goblins.)

It was fun from rp perspective just I'm having issues where combat is just a drag I guess

Ill see how it looks next session and try to not use net on anything with higher than 18 a.c
I'm also being bit careful with dynamite because we are in cave and dont wanna give dm a reason to cause a collapse

[strangebloke]

Basically, it doesn't seem like either you or your table has any clue about what they're doing. To be clear: that's fine. But its understandable that things aren't working well when things are set up like this. The monk shouldn't have that much ki, and shouldn't be able to spend that much ki at once, and shouldn't have four attacks. That Goblin boss fight was absolutely absurd and silly.

Moreover, your DM is clearly favoring a 5-minute long adventuring day, with 1 super-deadly combat between long rests. This style of play massively favors casters, so its not surprising that you're falling behind.

So yeah, talk to your DM, maybe?

Beyond that, though, it sounds to me as though you're being relatively effective. You took all the hits that the goblin boss dealt out for two rounds. Against anyone else in the party he would have killed them. You miss with your attacks sometimes, but everyone does.

Here's my play advice: Switch to using two shortswords. Don't use nets. Don't use dynamite. Don't use flasks. Other people are better with those. If you for some reason must use a net, have a shortsword in your off-hand to use as a bonus action. This will increase your consistency and your DPR. If you want to use Tavern Brawler, just drop one of the short swords mid-turn. IF you want to do the storm herald thing, cool! But you won't be doing that every single turn.

Don't really bother with grappling, either, unless there's a clear advantage to locking down the enemy's movement. If the enemy is running away or is a ranged fighter or something, go for it. Otherwise you're just wasting your bonus action.

If you're still struggling see if the DM will let you take Pole Arm Master in place of Tavern Brawler, and switch to Zealot Barbarian. Zealot tends to feel more fun and it doesn't sound like it would be off theme for your character. Pole Arm Master is just an incredibly strong feat.

[Shuruke]

Basically, it doesn't seem like either you or your table has any clue about what they're doing. To be clear: that's fine. But its understandable that things aren't working well when things are set up like this. The monk shouldn't have that much ki, and shouldn't be able to spend that much ki at once, and shouldn't have four attacks. That Goblin boss fight was absolutely absurd and silly.

Moreover, your DM is clearly favoring a 5-minute long adventuring day, with 1 super-deadly combat between long rests. This style of play massively favors casters, so its not surprising that you're falling behind.

So yeah, talk to your DM, maybe?

Beyond that, though, it sounds to me as though you're being relatively effective. You took all the hits that the goblin boss dealt out for two rounds. Against anyone else in the party he would have killed them. You miss with your attacks sometimes, but everyone does.

Here's my play advice: Switch to using two shortswords. Don't use nets. Don't use dynamite. Don't use flasks. Other people are better with those. If you for some reason must use a net, have a shortsword in your off-hand to use as a bonus action. This will increase your consistency and your DPR. If you want to use Tavern Brawler, just drop one of the short swords mid-turn. IF you want to do the storm herald thing, cool! But you won't be doing that every single turn.

Don't really bother with grappling, either, unless there's a clear advantage to locking down the enemy's movement. If the enemy is running away or is a ranged fighter or something, go for it. Otherwise you're just wasting your bonus action.

If you're still struggling see if the DM will let you take Pole Arm Master in place of Tavern Brawler, and switch to Zealot Barbarian. Zealot tends to feel more fun and it doesn't sound like it would be off theme for your character. Pole Arm Master is just an incredibly strong feat.

That's fair and I could do shortsword but currently net and etc has been in off hand
(Off hand only matters for twf. U can choose to make an attack with either one handed weapon your holding just can't effectively dual wield.)
My main hand is a improved torch doing 1d4+1 fire damage

Took tavern brawler for +prof to hit to have +6 on attacks

Generally I hit with oil and next turn smack with torch
When raging oil causes 11 extra damage (5+4+2. Dm is allowing rage damage on anything that makes a ranged attack roll from being thrown. And sage advice said you add modifier to damage.) from next attack using fire. Currently im only one with any fire until next level when warlock will be using green flame blade.

It hasn't all been bad
I had a real bad ass moment when only me and one other person werent downed in a fight and as the enemy was flying away with sanctuary on I kept lobbing javs at them. Killing blow was from 100feet away and a crit.

Its just the 3 most recent fights and that's probably because we've been well rested and the DM likes difficult encounters.

Also u cant use net and then short sword with bonus action with two weapon fighting
You'd need like war cleric or Berserker for that.


The idea for this character is to be an improvised thrower
Recklessly throwing alchemy from his bag/pouch.

I think it'll be better when I get extra attack and rage damage is +3. So far one if my favorite things was rolling almost max damage on acid flask while raging. Was 10+ bonuses

Just don't use acid much because despite us having gold galore theirs nowhere to spend it since most places are abandoned and have been pillaged by looters and dont wanna use it on enemies I only hit on 17+ on dice

Ill bring it to dm about the situation. I didn't want to cuz I've already talked to him about not really liking the passive agressive comments from 2 of the players having to do with my stat distribution. Not much really got settled there he just said I didn't beed to change my character cuz him and other players loved him. Which is good its just the non confrontational part of me wanted to swap stats so I didn't have to hear it.

[Malbrack]

22 AC is waaaaaaaaaaaayyyyy too high for a Goblin. You know what has 22 AC? A CR 21 Ancient Black Dragon. Seriously.

In the Monster Manual, Goblins have 15 AC. A Goblin Boss has 17 AC.

It sounds like your DM has tuned all the numbers up in order to make 1-fight-per-day challenging. The problem is that 5e uses bounded accuracy, so bumping up the AC of a Goblin Boss by 5 really throws things out of whack.

The upside is you get to be raging almost non-stop.

[JakOfAllTirades]

My advice is to find a more experienced group to learn from, preferably one that plays the game RAW and makes sure everyone is having fun. I'm not saying you should leave your current group; if you want to keep playing with them, that's fine. But it doesn't seem like they know what they're doing, and they're running roughshod over the rules and over your character.

[CTurbo]

Barbarians are tanks first and foremost, DPR secondary.

You need to rage immediately and go around hitting things with either 1 big weapon(GWM) or 2 smaller weapons(TWF). Since you can attack with advantage every time, the Great Weapon Master feat is great for Barbarians. Your role is to draw in attacks from the enemies so they're not attacking your friends. Yes you will still be good at killing things, just not the best.

18 AC is actually really high for a low level Barbarian. Normally it'd be 15 or 16 at level 4.

Grappling is not THAT bad, but your best use of your action is to use weapons. Stop using Nets and other random things. Tavern Brawler probably was not a very good choice. Any chance the DM would let you switch since you haven't leveled up yet?

[strangebloke]

That's fair and I could do shortsword but currently net and etc has been in off hand
(Off hand only matters for twf. U can choose to make an attack with either one handed weapon your holding just can't effectively dual wield.)
My main hand is a improved torch doing 1d4+1 fire damage

Took tavern brawler for +prof to hit to have +6 on attacks

Generally I hit with oil and next turn smack with torch
When raging oil causes 11 extra damage (5+4+2. Dm is allowing rage damage on anything that makes a ranged attack roll from being thrown. And sage advice said you add modifier to damage.) from next attack using fire. Currently im only one with any fire until next level when warlock will be using green flame blade.

It hasn't all been bad
I had a real bad ass moment when only me and one other person werent downed in a fight and as the enemy was flying away with sanctuary on I kept lobbing javs at them. Killing blow was from 100feet away and a crit.

Its just the 3 most recent fights and that's probably because we've been well rested and the DM likes difficult encounters.

Also u cant use net and then short sword with bonus action with two weapon fighting
You'd need like war cleric or Berserker for that.


The idea for this character is to be an improvised thrower
Recklessly throwing alchemy from his bag/pouch.

I think it'll be better when I get extra attack and rage damage is +3. So far one if my favorite things was rolling almost max damage on acid flask while raging. Was 10+ bonuses

Just don't use acid much because despite us having gold galore theirs nowhere to spend it since most places are abandoned and have been pillaged by looters and dont wanna use it on enemies I only hit on 17+ on dice

Ill bring it to dm about the situation. I didn't want to cuz I've already talked to him about not really liking the passive agressive comments from 2 of the players having to do with my stat distribution. Not much really got settled there he just said I didn't beed to change my character cuz him and other players loved him. Which is good its just the non confrontational part of me wanted to swap stats so I didn't have to hear it.

Yeah, like I said, the whole table here comes across as sorta insane, with a very very tenuous grasp on the rules.

You're exploiting that to do some janky things for the RP value like throwing acid as an attack, and doing so recklessly, and then adding rage damage to the fire damage. This technique is seriously just not effective even with the homebrew support that the DM is giving you. 10+ damage really shouldn't be exciting for you as a barbarian. For example, if you just used a greatsword you'd be dealing 13+ damage on nearly every single hit and more like 18+ on a max damage roll. A Zealot with Great Weapon Master could hit for 30+ damage at your level! This silly combo attack with torches and acid and oil and everything can work, but its a lot better on a thief rogue.

Meanwhile, the other people at your table are exploiting the DM's tenuous grasp of the rules to break the game over their knee like a stiff piece of balsa.

Naturally, your DM replies by making blatantly overpowered encounters that are completely silly to deal with, when you're running a character that would be somewhat weak in a normal game.

[Shuruke]

Yeah, like I said, the whole table here comes across as sorta insane, with a very very tenuous grasp on the rules.

You're exploiting that to do some janky things for the RP value like throwing acid as an attack, and doing so recklessly, and then adding rage damage to the fire damage. This technique is seriously just not effective even with the homebrew support that the DM is giving you. 10+ damage really shouldn't be exciting for you as a barbarian. For example, if you just used a greatsword you'd be dealing 13+ damage on nearly every single hit and more like 18+ on a max damage roll. A Zealot with Great Weapon Master could hit for 30+ damage at your level! This silly combo attack with torches and acid and oil and everything can work, but its a lot better on a thief rogue.

Meanwhile, the other people at your table are exploiting the DM's tenuous grasp of the rules to break the game over their knee like a stiff piece of balsa.

Naturally, your DM replies by making blatantly overpowered encounters that are completely silly to deal with, when you're running a character that would be somewhat weak in a normal game.

Talked to dm and got it figured out

The monk things was just a misconception of the monk not realizing martial arts was a bonus action

The 7d6 is part of a magic items kinda like how I have dynamite.
Only difference is mine is consumable and he gets 7d6 a short rest from the magic book ends

So in the end was really just a mis understanding on monks side for rules.

A magic item .
And poor description of an enemy that he said hes trying to work on he just skipped over it.

And yes I know what u mean by a great weapon using barbarian dealing max more damage ish
2d6+6 for greatsword one attack each turn
(Average 26.) However range 16-36
Compared to
11 on hit for oil
1d4+7 for torch (9.5) for 20.5
Or damage range 19-22

Considering we are comparing 1 handed weapon to 2 handed weapon I'm ok with difference. A 1d8 (5 average) has same as oil (5) and only slightly higher than 1d4+1 (3.5)



On Acid damage is same but done from range. 2d6+6

Also it could be better on thief rogue but you wouldn't get sneak attack because they are improvised weapons

I'm just asking for changes to fit a fun concept is all and he enjoys the concept of a angry Alchemist / thrower of anything.


And the zealot with great weapon master wouldn't have been any better off because in order to hit I needed a 17+

If your taking the -5+10 itd only hit on a 20

I'm excited about my combo cuz I like it visually I'm not expecting it to keep up with anything having gwm or sharpshooter and I was just looking for feedback for how I could go about not missing as much

Which the zealot might deal more damage but isnt anymore accurate.

I might take a 3 level fighter dip for fighting style and martial dice


I appreciate your input though! And zealot could be fun I just like the idea of a religious character who doesn't have any power for being religious they just are because of ideals.


Id also like to point out that I'm not trying to exploit I cleared this all with DM in session 0 so that we could have the guidelines allow a angry thrower in 5e that would be able to survive the hard combats he likes.


It boiled down to me hitting the one target with insane a.c because I didnt realize he was better equipped than the others.

I didn't realize that the monk had a magic item (like Adamantine scale mail I had found and sold)

Not trying to argue or anything I'm just trying to make it a bit more clear for u.

I understand 5e rules rather well and have asked to bend them because well throwers don't get much love in 5e.

I'm also rather uncomfortable bringing up how things how intended to work in sessions because i don't wanna feel like a rules lawyer.

If I had just asked where 7d6 was from in session it woukdnt have bothered me as much, and if I pointed out the misuse of martial arts his first turn it wouldn't have gone on. I just couldn't get myself to say it because I don't wanna be that guy.

I'm feeling much better now and rather than dreading next Friday I'm looking forward to it

[CTurbo]

Talked to dm and got it figured out

The monk things was just a misconception of the monk not realizing martial arts was a bonus action

The 7d6 is part of a magic items kinda like how I have dynamite.
Only difference is mine is consumable and he gets 7d6 a short rest from the magic book ends

So in the end was really just a mis understanding on monks side for rules.

A magic item .
And poor description of an enemy that he said hes trying to work on he just skipped over it.

And yes I know what u mean by a great weapon using barbarian dealing max more damage ish
2d6+6 for greatsword one attack each turn
(Average 26.) However range 16-36
Compared to
11 on hit for oil
1d4+7 for torch (9.5) for 20.5
Or damage range 19-22

Considering we are comparing 1 handed weapon to 2 handed weapon I'm ok with difference. A 1d8 (5 average) has same as oil (5) and only slightly higher than 1d4+1 (3.5)



On Acid damage is same but done from range. 2d6+6

Also it could be better on thief rogue but you wouldn't get sneak attack because they are improvised weapons

I'm just asking for changes to fit a fun concept is all and he enjoys the concept of a angry Alchemist / thrower of anything.


And the zealot with great weapon master wouldn't have been any better off because in order to hit I needed a 17+

If your taking the -5+10 itd only hit on a 20

I'm excited about my combo cuz I like it visually I'm not expecting it to keep up with anything having gwm or sharpshooter and I was just looking for feedback for how I could go about not missing as much

Which the zealot might deal more damage but isnt anymore accurate.

I might take a 3 level fighter dip for fighting style and martial dice


I appreciate your input though! And zealot could be fun I just like the idea of a religious character who doesn't have any power for being religious they just are because of ideals.


Id also like to point out that I'm not trying to exploit I cleared this all with DM in session 0 so that we could have the guidelines allow a angry thrower in 5e that would be able to survive the hard combats he likes.


It boiled down to me hitting the one target with insane a.c because I didnt realize he was better equipped than the others.

I didn't realize that the monk had a magic item (like Adamantine scale mail I had found and sold)

Not trying to argue or anything I'm just trying to make it a bit more clear for u.

I understand 5e rules rather well and have asked to bend them because well throwers don't get much love in 5e.

I'm also rather uncomfortable bringing up how things how intended to work in sessions because i don't wanna feel like a rules lawyer.

If I had just asked where 7d6 was from in session it woukdnt have bothered me as much, and if I pointed out the misuse of martial arts his first turn it wouldn't have gone on. I just couldn't get myself to say it because I don't wanna be that guy.

I'm feeling much better now and rather than dreading next Friday I'm looking forward to it


But attacking with a weapon via strength, you can attack with advantage on every attack doubling your chances for a crit which would net you a bonus action attack with the GWM feat. Even if you pull that off once every 4 or 5 rounds, it would way outdamage the other acid/torch approach which you shouldn't be getting your rage bonus on.

[Shuruke]

But attacking with a weapon via strength, you can attack with advantage on every attack doubling your chances for a crit which would net you a bonus action attack with the GWM feat. Even if you pull that off once every 4 or 5 rounds, it would way outdamage the other acid/torch approach which you shouldn't be getting your rage bonus on.

Since its thrown and not finesse its strength
Least that's how the dm ruled it

He's also allowing reckless to work on thrown weapons that use strength.

By RAW no it wouldn't work
But the phb is a guideline
We tweaked it a little for the sake of fun

Would just playing a normal two handed weapon barb with gwm be better

Sure
But we already have a gwm user so he can do that
And ill do this ranged throwing fluff stuff

Even if I was doing greatsword I would just use a reach weapon because reach weapons deal 1d12 or 2d6 in this campaign meaning there no reason to use the normal two handed weapons

Me missing as much as I was. Was with advantage

Sure the 2 net attacks were just normal rolls because it cancelled out

But the unarmed strike I made against him and the torch attack were misses even with advantage
Again I needed a 17 on dice or higher or higher
Or 4/20. 20% to hit in each roll
Advantage if I remember right increased it to 30% hit

I see where you are coming from but comparing what I wanna do to the most possibly optimized choice doesn't make sense because that isnt what I'm going for

If u wanna compare compare
Longsword and shield master against
Tavern brawler and throwing weapons/bonus action grapple


So in short
I have been attacking with advantage
And my first attack against the guy was a 21 total

But since I didnt have the description of him in very well made full plate and a shield till the DM described my attack as just flopping against his armor it didn't help.
Could the 2 attacks I made with net hit if I had normal advantage
Yeah. But its not like I always throw a net. I threw it the first time thinking it was a a.c 16 enemy so I only needed 10 or higher to restrain

Second time it was because
Hey that did **** ton of damage
If I can lend this net he'll have disadvantage and have to waste an attack on net to get rid of it.


I see where your coming from for gwm

But also sometimes its nice to take a step away from the gwm and sharpshooter hit as hard as possible builds

[CTurbo]

Since its thrown and not finesse its strength
Least that's how the dm ruled it

He's also allowing reckless to work on thrown weapons that use strength.

By RAW no it wouldn't work
But the phb is a guideline
We tweaked it a little for the sake of fun

Would just playing a normal two handed weapon barb with gwm be better

Sure
But we already have a gwm user so he can do that
And ill do this ranged throwing fluff stuff

Even if I was doing greatsword I would just use a reach weapon because reach weapons deal 1d12 or 2d6 in this campaign meaning there no reason to use the normal two handed weapons

Me missing as much as I was. Was with advantage

Sure the 2 net attacks were just normal rolls because it cancelled out

But the unarmed strike I made against him and the torch attack were misses even with advantage
Again I needed a 17 on dice or higher or higher
Or 4/20. 20% to hit in each roll
Advantage if I remember right increased it to 30% hit

I see where you are coming from but comparing what I wanna do to the most possibly optimized choice doesn't make sense because that isnt what I'm going for

If u wanna compare compare
Longsword and shield master against
Tavern brawler and throwing weapons/bonus action grapple


So in short
I have been attacking with advantage
And my first attack against the guy was a 21 total

But since I didnt have the description of him in very well made full plate and a shield till the DM described my attack as just flopping against his armor it didn't help.
Could the 2 attacks I made with net hit if I had normal advantage
Yeah. But its not like I always throw a net. I threw it the first time thinking it was a a.c 16 enemy so I only needed 10 or higher to restrain

Second time it was because
Hey that did **** ton of damage
If I can lend this net he'll have disadvantage and have to waste an attack on net to get rid of it.


I see where your coming from for gwm

But also sometimes its nice to take a step away from the gwm and sharpshooter hit as hard as possible builds



Yeah but you're literally telling us that you've felt underwhelmed with your Barbarian. To us, the reason is obvious.

[Shuruke]

Yeah but you're literally telling us that you've felt underwhelmed with your Barbarian. To us, the reason is obvious.

Okay so not trying to be rude here or anything

But let's get this straight (don't really play barbarian mainly play rogue or sorc.)

What I'm getting from this other than the few people who pointed out issues I talked to others about and got fixed.

So in short. The main reason I'm not enjoying barbarian is because I'm not doing one specefic weapon type (two handed and heavy)

An entire class is only enjoyable if u play two handed and heavy

I don't agree with that. Especially since the first 5 combats I was extremely happy and didn't feel underwhelming at all.

Tbh my biggest issue with barbarian is exactly this

Every single session

Why are you wearing armor your a barbarian. This one gets me the most because I hear it every session. I am NOT a monk I lose nothing wearing medium armor. I can still rage, still get unarmored movement. All this saves me is half plate 17 a.c. with +2 dex is equivalent of a +2 dex +5 con in a.c. even with rolling stats I didn't have 3 18's and even if I did I didn't want to just be the stereotypical big dumb murderhobo.

"Why are you using one handed weapons your a barbarian"
Oddly enough they have proficiency in more than heavy two handed weapons. Its not like I'm playing a bow using barbarian or a dex barbarian. im still using str and i am still using reckless and rage damage. He'll I was thinking people were gonna recemend getting a shield or just using an oil covered sword.

Why aren't you running into melee your a barbarian. Oddly enough if I can't run up and melee I'm instead gonna run up throw and back up so they have to come to me and then I rage and I go into melee. Because in this campaign if I'm in melee and don't have rage up im going to 0 hp fast even with 17 a.c. . (I have 47 hp at lvl 4 because we roll and if lower than average rounded up you take that)


So am I getting this right This entire class will not keep up with others unless u use a two handed heavy weapon.
Have 3 high physical stats
All needing to be at least 16+ so u can not wear armor
And your expected to dash into melee even tho you have options to instead throw a javelin

That sounds like an absolutely ridiculous design flaw.


I understand that gwm is good

I understand that two handed weapons have high average damage d12(6.5) 2d6(7) compared to one handed weapons 1d6-1d8 (3.5-4.5)

Alot of information I got so far was helpful

But just saying
Use one of the (5?) Two handed weapons or play a different class isnt helpful a d trying to act like "its a simple solution just do this and ignore the fun character you had in mind" (almost like playing an MMO and being locked into only being one weapon type one armor type one role type specefic stats on gear that don't change) at that point all that makes your character unique is race and color/glamour

Before level 5 it makes sense that it is gonna feel underwhelming when I have 2 allies both making 2+ attacks a turn.

It makes sense that as one of the 2 only full martial characters and I only have 1 attack. That against an enemy with 22 a.c. at level 4 I feel a bit underwhelming .

It is a weird group. I'm very new to the group and became a part of it only like 6 sessions ago. At end of level 2. They had 3 at level one and had been a gaming group/friends before that. So although I know monks at level 4 shouldnt have 4 attacks, but I didn't wanna say anything because Idk if its homebrew or an item or whatever so for an entire combat I don't say anything till the end of 2nd one. (And only said it because I was actually frustrated at how little I was doing) I didn't ask about the 7d6 burning hands because the dm and co dm said it was that much. I didn't want to say "huh? What's that from" cuz that just sounds odd I guess.

Its getting sorted out and DM is happy I brought up my confusions

I'm used to low magic very minute items so this is completely new. Hell the fact that at level 4 I can use an action for 10d6 damage in a 20 foot radius is weird (only had 2 and have used both on bosses that frustrate me as a go away button)

The reason I posted this is because I wanted people to point out what they thought problems were. And alot of them are helpful. But I don't understand the one saying plain and simple
Use a 2 handed heavy weapon. My issue wasn't damage I felt great when I actually got to do something other than roll a d20 and describe how my characters blow smashes against the armor doing nothing. The end of the combat felt completely satisfying
Didn't even roll the 10d6 damage it was brought down to if he passes save he lives and I was ok with that because when he lived the dm let me make a bonus action grapple saying dynamite was improvised weapon. And succeesing that grapple as my character went full out Kane from WWE as I held him by neck with one hand tired of his ****. And the pam gwm warlock killed him with a upswing it felt good I had done something.
So maybe thats on me. I don't like spending 70% time doing nothing. Other than granting temp HP in aoe



But

But just use two handed weapon ?

[bid]

So in short. The main reason I'm not enjoying barbarian is because I'm not doing one specefic weapon type (two handed and heavy)

Why are you wearing armor your a barbarian.
Yeah, unarmored defense is a trap option. Those who ask you to remove your armor are pretty clueless.

And while reckless attack is the best way to cancel out GWM penalty, it's not the only way to play. Your damage will improve once you get extra attack.


As for the rest, you can't do a thing unless your GM spread the difficulty over multiple encounters instead of the 5-minute day.

[Nidgit]

It sounds to me like you're playing your Barbarian about how it should be, but the wonkiness of the table is throwing off the powerscaling. If you're constantly starting combat over one turn of movement away from your enemies, there's nothing wrong with playing a little defensively. Likewise, using half plate is less traditional but generally a superior choice until you've had the time to invest more in Dex or Con at high levels. And having a smart Barbarian is refreshing and a nice break from the stereotype at the cost of a little optimization. You'll feel a lot better once you start attacking twice each round.

Regarding using one handed weapons, at higher levels Brutal Critical does tend to push you towards using heavier weapons for massive crits, but particularly at low level there's nothing at all wrong with one handed weapons. The use of a net is a hit unorthodox since it typically doesn't benefit from rage bonuses the way a grapple does, particularly since grapples get advantage of Strength checks. Since your DM has made a number of house rulings to more broadly apply rage bonuses it sounds like a net is more viable, though probably not quite effective as a shield or a second weapon. Two-handing isn't great for the already-subpar Storm Herald Barb due to bonus action economy, but a shield is a strong choice.

Like a couple other people have noted, it sounds like you're doing your job pretty well given the circumstances and that it's weird rulings around you putting thing out of scale. 22 AC is absurdly high for a 4th level fight (did he have partial cover or something?) and the aoe effects some of your party are putting out are well above the intended curve as well. There's not a lot you as a character can do about that outside of willfully misinterpreting your abilities (the temp HP from your Tundra ability doesn't stack, for instance, but if you're mitigating that much damage through it it sounds like it might be ruled that way), but you as a player can be more vocal about unorthodox rulings you're not sure about and can talk to your DM about potential rule fixes. It sounds like some of those fixes have already taken place.

[jdolch]

Everything important has already been said, i just want to add that I think it is a very bad Idea for a new, green-behind-the-ears DM to make up Houserules and Custom/Magic Items, when he has no real grasp of the rules yet, let alone an intuitive understanding for balancing (that only comes with lots of experience).

[sophontteks]

Storm Herald is a terrible subclass. The only barbarian subclasses are totem and zealot. If you want to grapple ask to go totem and play with the eagle stuff. The movement buffs will vastly improve the potential of you grappling and it really feels good to move 80 feet per round right through the enemy just to grapple the leader and toss him off a cliff.

[Keravath]

Yeah, unarmored defense is a trap option. Those who ask you to remove your armor are pretty clueless.

And while reckless attack is the best way to cancel out GWM penalty, it's not the only way to play. Your damage will improve once you get extra attack.


As for the rest, you can't do a thing unless your GM spread the difficulty over multiple encounters instead of the 5-minute day.

To the OP: I think the character sounds interesting to RP and the DM has changed a lot of rules to allow your barbarian/alchemist/thrower to actually work .. it would be pretty hopeless otherwise.

In general, the unarmored defence is a bit of a trap with point buy since it takes a large investment to even match medium armor. It is mostly thematic.

However, in the case of the OP and his die rolls he could have STARTED with 18 15 17 14 10 13 due to the very lucky rolled stats. A level 4 ASI boosting con and dex would give 18 16 18 14 10 13 which would have given a 17 AC matching medium armor at level 4 without the stealth disadvantage as well as more hit points and a good ranged option with a bow. He is still a smart barbarian with a 14 in int, just not as good as a 17 but the modifier difference is only 1. (In a lot of games level 4 characters won't even have enough gold to consider buying half plate even assuming there is some place that the character could actually purchase it).

Either character build would be fun to role play just different and the OP has a character concept he wants to try out .. time will tell how well it works and whether it will scale as he levels up.

[Shuruke]

(snip) You'll feel a lot better once you start attacking twice each round.

Regarding using one handed weapons, at higher levels Brutal Critical does tend to push you towards using heavier weapons for massive crits, but particularly at low level there's nothing at all wrong with one handed weapons. The use of a net is a hit unorthodox since it typically doesn't benefit from rage bonuses the way a grapple does, particularly since grapples get advantage of Strength checks. Since your DM has made a number of house rulings to more broadly apply rage bonuses it sounds like a net is more viable, though probably not quite effective as a shield or a second weapon. Two-handing isn't great for the already-subpar Storm Herald Barb due to bonus action economy, but a shield is a strong choice.

Like a couple other people have noted, it sounds like you're doing your job pretty well given the circumstances and that it's weird rulings around you putting thing out of scale. 22 AC is absurdly high for a 4th level fight (did he have partial cover or something?) and the aoe effects some of your party are putting out are well above the intended curve as well. There's not a lot you as a character can do about that outside of willfully misinterpreting your abilities (the temp HP from your Tundra ability doesn't stack, for instance, but if you're mitigating that much damage through it it sounds like it might be ruled that way), but you as a player can be more vocal about unorthodox rulings you're not sure about and can talk to your DM about potential rule fixes. It sounds like some of those fixes have already taken place.

A.C was 22 due to +2. Full plate and a shield

None of us can utilize full plate so we are just carrying It till we can find a smith to mold its size for some pieces to use in place of some of my half plate

And temp hp doesn't stack but since it's a 10 foot around me I've been hitting 5+ allies with it a turn. Most turns 3 if us get hit so generally its negating 8 damage a turn if it's b,p,s on me and 2 others get hit

Generally combat has been 5-8 rounds
Which is how I averaged numbers (I generally keep track each session because it feels nice at end of fight to know I mitigated x damage. I actually saved druid from going down 4 times because she kept dropping to 1 or 2 then getting healed.

Thanks for your feed back!!

I think at level 9 when I get brutal crit ill look into an oil covered great maul for sake of the fire theatrics I want

[Shuruke]

To the OP: I think the character sounds interesting to RP and the DM has changed a lot of rules to allow your barbarian/alchemist/thrower to actually work .. it would be pretty hopeless otherwise.

In general, the unarmored defence is a bit of a trap with point buy since it takes a large investment to even match medium armor. It is mostly thematic.

However, in the case of the OP and his die rolls he could have STARTED with 18 15 17 14 10 13 due to the very lucky rolled stats. A level 4 ASI boosting con and dex would give 18 16 18 14 10 13 which would have given a 17 AC matching medium armor at level 4 without the stealth disadvantage as well as more hit points and a good ranged option with a bow. He is still a smart barbarian with a 14 in int, just not as good as a 17 but the modifier difference is only 1. (In a lot of games level 4 characters won't even have enough gold to consider buying half plate even assuming there is some place that the character could actually purchase it).

Either character build would be fun to role play just different and the OP has a character concept he wants to try out .. time will tell how well it works and whether it will scale as he levels up.

Since I'm an orc the 17 int is a 18

So it'd be
18 str
15 dex
18 con
14 int
10 wis
13 cha

Giving 16 a.c level one bumping to 17 at 4

Instead I did it way I did because I had 16 a.c level one anyway and now 17 a.c because I got half plate after selling my magic scale mail I found

My hp would be higher by 2 a level going down to 1 at level 4 unless I bumped con to 20

My choice very much was less optimal but meh

[Man_Over_Game]

You're doing barbarian wrong.

It goes:

Rage - move - clobber.

I think you missed the part where the OP said that his DM lets him throw weapons and gain the Rage bonus. As for the OP in particular, it's honestly the DM's fault. It's the DM's job to ensure that everyone is balanced and having a good time, and making homebrew features and monsters basically puts the entirety of the responsibility on him. It sounds like he wanted things to be a challenge, but doesn't know how to provide that challenge except through high numbers and beefy monsters.

You have to ask yourself: How are your features going to matter if the enemy always scales past them? How can you ever truly improve when the DM allows constant modification to class features to jack up the power level? A Barbarian, more than anyone else, is a class that doesn't rely on cheap tricks or gimmicks. His numbers are set in stone and rely on a consistent, balanced system for it to work properly.

Don't get me wrong, I think it's fine to change things around, but only as long as the DM recognizes that he has to break things in order to fix others. Many DM's don't know what they're fixing in the first place, and it ends up breaking things unnecessarily.

[strangebloke]

I think you missed the part where the OP said that his DM lets him throw weapons and gain the Rage bonus. As for the OP in particular, it's honestly the DM's fault. It's the DM's job to ensure that everyone is balanced and having a good time, and making homebrew features and monsters basically puts the entirety of the responsibility on him. It sounds like he wanted things to be a challenge, but doesn't know how to provide that challenge except through high numbers and beefy monsters.

You have to ask yourself: How are your features going to matter if the enemy always scales past them? How can you ever truly improve when the DM allows constant modification to class features to jack up the power level? A Barbarian, more than anyone else, is a class that doesn't rely on cheap tricks or gimmicks. His numbers are set in stone and rely on a consistent, balanced system for it to work properly.

Don't get me wrong, I think it's fine to change things around, but only as long as the DM recognizes that he has to break things in order to fix others. Many DM's don't know what they're fixing in the first place, and it ends up breaking things unnecessarily.

Well, yeah, I'd blame the DM here as well. He's allowing a lot of free-styling modification to class features and monsters without enough systems knowledge to realize the implications.

Another problem here is the players. People shouldn't be ragging on other players for their stat allocations, unless you made a wizard with negative CON and DEX or something. People shouldn't be giving their friends crap for their strategic choices, unless that player is constantly needing to be rescued or something.

Everyone else is abusing that free-styling to massively overpower their character. A monk having a short-rest fireball is insane. The monk conveniently forgetting that martial arts and flurry both take seperate bonus actions is a another sign of the DM's lack of systems knowledge getting abused, even if only temporarily. Shuruke is abusing the system to make a very strange character that's less effective than a featless barbarian in a game where the rules are actually followed.

And his character is a lot weaker than it should be. Even with acid-throwing being a decent strat due to the homebrew....

You shouldn't have an expendable resource as your 'free super-awesome powerup.' Eventually you will run out and then you will be sad.
Throwing a net is a total waste of an action. At best it gives one other guy advantage, which is strictly worse than just... attacking yourself. Getting rage and ability damage to a net throw makes it better, but not by much, and certainly not for you.
Tavern Brawler to be able to swing a torch and light people on fire is very gimicky and doesn't deal very much damage for the huge investment. The grappling part of the feat doesn't synergize with Storm Herald, which is also a not-so-great subclass.
He did choose to play as an orc, which is a terrible race and only offers more bonus action options as competition.


So yeah, if the question is "How do I suck less" I think there is stuff that can be said on that front.

[Man_Over_Game]

That's a valid point. The DM should be more focused on the unoptimized Barbarian (Storm Herald is weak, Orc is weak, Storm Herald requires Bonus Action, Tavern Brawler requires Bonus Action). A simple fix I'd ask your DM about is if you can turn on your Aura as a Bonus Action, and it stays on until your Rage ends or until you end the Aura as a Bonus Action. Maybe add a clause so that you can turn on your Aura with the same bonus action you used to Rage.

That alone should be enough to make your build work a bit better, as well as making the Storm Herald a bit more competitive of a choice.

[jdolch]

You have to ask yourself: How are your features going to matter if the enemy always scales past them? How can you ever truly improve when the DM allows constant modification to class features to jack up the power level?

Oh how much i hate that. "Oh the Paladin just got his +5 Saving Throw Aura. Lets just give all Enemies a +5 Bonus to balance it" What exactly was the point of getting that Aura again?

Sadly there are always DMs out there who think their objective is to WIN the game.

For me that's really what separates a good DM from a bad DM: A good DM knows that it's his job to let the Players feel Epic. Not to squash them.

[Man_Over_Game]

To put things in perspective, the AC a level 4 character should be having to deal with is about 18 on boss-level monsters. For most players, that's about a 45% chance to hit.

Having too low of a hit chance causes things to be "swingy" and less consistent. Swinginess is good to create chaos and to disrupt plans, but too swingy ends up causing plans to be rendered completely moot (See: Wild Mage). Too high consistency allows a plan to work too seamlessly, and puts too much emphasis on player metagaming (See: Knowledge Wizard UA).

There needs to be a good balance, and that balance is about a 50% hit rate. On a level 4 character, you're talking about an average AC of 14-16 on your enemies, with the occasional hard-to-kill boss monster. The high AC on the monsters that you guys are fighting is effectively reducing your party's general chance to hit from about 55% to roughly 25%. When you used to be able to hit twice, you're now only hitting once.

Or, in other words, your DM's poor AC balancing is doubling the survivability of his monsters while also making player rounds very inconsistent, which is probably why you're feeling fairly useless. Things will get better when you hit level 5 (when you can get Advantage on 2 attacks rather than your Warlock spamming his 3 with no Advantage), but the best fix is just having your DM put more thought into balance.

[Sigreid]

IMO, part of the problem may be that while barbarians are a great class at what they do, they are often over sold on their combat performance.

[GlenSmash!]

I think the problem may not be with playstyle, but with Magic item overshadowing class abilities.

[Man_Over_Game]

IMO, part of the problem may be that while barbarians are a great class at what they do, they are often over sold on their combat performance.

Fighters are better against swarms. Barbarians are good against bosses. Monks are good against non-melee combatants. But overall, they can all fill the same roles just fine, if only because of how well balanced 5e is.

My biggest gripe is that the Barbarian loses out on a lot for its combat abilities, only for its combat level to be roughly on par with the Monk (who can do more out of combat).

[Shuruke]

I think the problem may not be with playstyle, but with Magic item overshadowing class abilities.

Yeah the monk is planning on talking to dm because he is wanting to play a risk reward character and having dartsnthat are 2d4 damage on hit and +2 to hit along with a once per rest 7d6 cone makes him feel like he is walking around on easy mode.
He just hasn't mentioned it yet because its only been 3rd session with them


Only otger magical item I can think of is the 2d6 Halberd, but I think.the dm is just allowing Halberd to be 2d6 so Idk if that os a magical item

( I did have adamantine armor but sold it for half plate since I'd rather have the a.c bump than immunity to crits.)

[Shuruke]

Fighters are better against swarms. Barbarians are good against bosses. Monks are good against non-melee combatants. But overall, they can all fill the same roles just fine, if only because of how well balanced 5e is.

My biggest gripe is that the Barbarian loses out on a lot for its combat abilities, only for its combat level to be roughly on par with the Monk (who can do more out of combat).

This is my first time playing barbarian and only really chose it because I liked the idea of rping like a book learned pally (religion and nature prof) while being a barbarian
Then just went with fire themes cuz Pholtus so he uses torch anx otger unconventional combat stuff. Had been really fun other than like last 3 combats
(One against a hard to pin down caster and weretiger , one against ropers, one against the goblins.)

The weretiger one was kind of on me. I walked into a con save AOE to walk through and get into melee rather than having to run all the way around. Failed the con save (needed to roll 4 or higher to pass and rolled a 3) so roll20 just hated me that session. Then tge way the weretiger was described seemed as if it was just a Tabaxi with a shield. So when I went into melee with it and went to knock prone for the gwm character even though I got a 19 total it beat me in check.

Ropers were just annoying cuz ropers but that was at least a little fun because I slammed dynamite into ones mouth with a held action for when it was gonna bite. Tanked 4 bites I think from one so that was 4 turns of it hitting Me and I still had 18 hp and 2 temp hp with rage (so probably another 2 or 3 hits) but outside of dynamite and landing a javelin hit for 8 damage (2+ bonuses) I didn't do much

Goblin fight I was just a meat shield. Tanked total of 10 hits before healing. Lots were only 5 or 6 damage after being halved and getting through temp hp. Boss was real damage dealer dealing around 12 damage after being halved and temp hp.


For most part im enjoying it but barbarian just feels like it doesn't do whole lot at low levels

[Man_Over_Game]

This is my first time playing barbarian and only really chose it because I liked the idea of rping like a book learned pally (religion and nature prof) while being a barbarian
Then just went with fire themes cuz Pholtus so he uses torch anx otger unconventional combat stuff. Had been really fun other than like last 3 combats
(One against a hard to pin down caster and weretiger , one against ropers, one against the goblins.)

The weretiger one was kind of on me. I walked into a con save AOE to walk through and get into melee rather than having to run all the way around. Failed the con save (needed to roll 4 or higher to pass and rolled a 3) so roll20 just hated me that session. Then tge way the weretiger was described seemed as if it was just a Tabaxi with a shield. So when I went into melee with it and went to knock prone for the gwm character even though I got a 19 total it beat me in check.

Ropers were just annoying cuz ropers but that was at least a little fun because I slammed dynamite into ones mouth with a held action for when it was gonna bite. Tanked 4 bites I think from one so that was 4 turns of it hitting Me and I still had 18 hp and 2 temp hp with rage (so probably another 2 or 3 hits) but outside of dynamite and landing a javelin hit for 8 damage (2+ bonuses) I didn't do much

Goblin fight I was just a meat shield. Tanked total of 10 hits before healing. Lots were only 5 or 6 damage after being halved and getting through temp hp. Boss was real damage dealer dealing around 12 damage after being halved and temp hp.


For most part im enjoying it but barbarian just feels like it doesn't do whole lot at low levels

On the contrary, early game is where the Barbarian shines the most. The reason I say that Barbarians do well against bosses is because bosses:


Have high hit bonuses.
Have high AC.


If a Boss has a +13 hit bonus, it won't matter if you have 15 AC or 20. More than likely, he's going to hit you. Where a heavily armored Fighter might have a 30% higher chance to deflect the damage, the Barbarian has a guaranteed 50% resistance to the attack. Barbarians do well against accurate foes.
If a Boss has some ludicrously high AC, a Fighter making 3 attacks will land fewer hits than a Barbarian making 2 attacks with Advantage. The Barbarian now allows Advantage to attack him back, sure, but do keep in mind the previous line.

I think your DM is just fudging the stats of his creatures to create an unbalanced challenge. Talk to your party members and see how they feel about things, or just talk to the DM at your next session. There is no instance where a creature with 20 AC should be fought before level 6 or so.

[Shuruke]

Fighters are better against swarms. Barbarians are good against bosses. Monks are good against non-melee combatants. But overall, they can all fill the same roles just fine, if only because of how well balanced 5e is.

My biggest gripe is that the Barbarian loses out on a lot for its combat abilities, only for its combat level to be roughly on par with the Monk (who can do more out of combat).

That's my thought but I compare them to fighter, just feels like where fighter archetypes feel unique all of the barbarian things are raged focus, would've been cool for Berserker to get features for reckless attack

Or for some of totems to effect the danger sense etc

Just feels like other than totem that has bunch of options everything else only gives combat stuff

Compare this to archetypes of other classes and it just feels meh.

Don't get me wrong I'm enjoying barb for most part, but the feel is very different than rogues or casters

[Shuruke]

On the contrary, early game is where the Barbarian shines the most. The reason I say that Barbarians do well against bosses is because bosses:


Have high hit bonuses.
Have high AC.


If a Boss has a +13 hit bonus, it won't matter if you have 15 AC or 20. More than likely, he's going to hit you. Where a heavily armored Fighter might have a 30% higher chance to deflect the damage, the Barbarian has a guaranteed 50% resistance to the attack. Barbarians do well against accurate foes.
If a Boss has some ludicrously high AC, a Fighter making 3 attacks will land fewer hits than a Barbarian making 2 attacks with Advantage. The Barbarian now allows Advantage to attack him back, sure, but do keep in mind the previous line.

I think your DM is just fudging the stats of his creatures to create an unbalanced challenge. Talk to your party members and see how they feel about things, or just talk to the DM at your next session. There is no instance where a creature with 20 AC should be fought before level 6 or so.

The 2 attack to 3 attack statement doesn't come in till 5+ levels

I was meaning low levels as in tier 1
Levels 1-4


Edit: also I hope nothing this early has +13 hit or else theirs no reason on even rolling to hit on level 4 pcs ^.^´´
I have 17 a.c. and that's high for group because we don't have heavy armor or shield user
Monk has 18 but put an asi toward wis at 4.

So second highest a.c
Highest hp by like 11 points
And I feel really tanky and good about that. I take more hits than others but I the end
1 attack a turn even at advantage doesn't feel nice
Especially since alot of time I dont need to use reckless for advantage due to other advantage causing things
Faerie fire
Guiding bolt
Prone
Hold person

So in the end I'm having 1 attack at advantage compared to 2+

(Even funnier I havent hit a single thing that's been paralyzed because one was roper 20 a.c and other was the 22 a.c boss)

[sophontteks]

That's my thought but I compare them to fighter, just feels like where fighter archetypes feel unique all of the barbarian things are raged focus, would've been cool for Berserker to get features for reckless attack

Or for some of totems to effect the danger sense etc

Just feels like other than totem that has bunch of options everything else only gives combat stuff

Compare this to archetypes of other classes and it just feels meh.

Don't get me wrong I'm enjoying barb for most part, but the feel is very different than rogues or casters
Yeah, its really best to just pretend the only archetypes are totem and zealot.

Fighters have the same problem really. They do have more options, but many of their archtypes are one-dimensional and boring.

Barbarians are more fun then fighters to me. Its all about strengthmancy. I make my barbarians fast, and tough. I hope one day I can play a totem barb all the way to 14 when they can fly.

[Man_Over_Game]

The 2 attack to 3 attack statement doesn't come in till 5+ levels

I was meaning low levels as in tier 1
Levels 1-4

At low levels, the Barbarian's shear amount of HP really shines, especially with Rage.

A level 3 Barbarian, with a +3 Constitution, will have about 34 HP. Assuming all the attacks they take are weapons, that's 68 damage.
A level 3 Fighter, with a +3 Constitution, will have about 30 HP. Assuming all of the attacks they take are weapons, that's still only 30 damage.

At this point in the game, most creatures won't have more than 2 spell casts, and will deal very little magical damage to ignore your Rage bonus with. Even if you're attacking a little bit less than someone else with a Bonus Action attack, you're still taking half as much damage as them.

[GlenSmash!]

Yeah, its really best to just pretend the only archetypes are totem and zealot.

Fighters have the same problem really. They do have more options, but many of their archtypes are one-dimensional and boring.

Barbarians are more fun then fighters to me. Its all about strengthmancy. I make my barbarians fast, and tough. I hope one day I can play a totem barb all the way to 14 when they can fly.

I like Ancestral guardians Barb. At least it plays a little differently than others.

I'd also love to play a Barb to 14, but I'd want a Zealot. Rolling death saves and then laughing at the numbers while I still swing my axe.

[GlenSmash!]

At low levels, the Barbarian's shear amount of HP really shines, especially with Rage.

A level 3 Barbarian, with a +3 Constitution, will have about 34 HP. Assuming all the attacks they take are weapons, that's 68 damage.
A level 3 Fighter, with a +3 Constitution, will have about 30 HP. Assuming all of the attacks they take are weapons, that's still only 30 damage.

At this point in the game, most creatures won't have more than 2 spell casts, and will deal very little magical damage to ignore your Rage bonus with. Even if you're attacking a little bit less than someone else with a Bonus Action attack, you're still taking half as much damage as them.

This is something I noticed on my current Barb who has 14 Con. By fifth level I don't really care, but early on I definitely dropped to 0 more often. Especially when I only had 2 rages between long rests.

[Shuruke]

At low levels, the Barbarian's shear amount of HP really shines, especially with Rage.

A level 3 Barbarian, with a +3 Constitution, will have about 34 HP. Assuming all the attacks they take are weapons, that's 68 damage.
A level 3 Fighter, with a +3 Constitution, will have about 30 HP. Assuming all of the attacks they take are weapons, that's still only 30 damage.

At this point in the game, most creatures won't have more than 2 spell casts, and will deal very little magical damage to ignore your Rage bonus with. Even if you're attacking a little bit less than someone else with a Bonus Action attack, you're still taking half as much damage as them.

This!!
This is so true and I guess I was just taking it for granted how tanky I am

Im really enjoying it but its often kinda pushed put of mind when I just feel like a punching bag

I'm actually really liling storm herald (arctic) because of how tanky I feel

Having 47 hp
Raging is 94
And every turn I don't have 2 temp or allies don't I use BA for 2 temp hp

Which is nice cuz over 4 turns I practically gave myself 16 shielding while also shielding allies

I think by end of 7 round combat I had shielded myself every turn and 2 allies (dream druid, warlock)
So 28 for myself and probably 10-20 combined between the two allies

Which makes sense.. Loolong back now I've never actually dropped to 0. Gotten close 5 hp+2 temp butpst of time I kust outlast everything.


Ill have to look at it with that mindset more!

[Man_Over_Game]

This!!
This is so true and I guess I was just taking it for granted how tanky I am

Im really enjoying it but its often kinda pushed put of mind when I just feel like a punching bag

I'm actually really liling storm herald (arctic) because of how tanky I feel

Having 47 hp
Raging is 94
And every turn I don't have 2 temp or allies don't I use BA for 2 temp hp

Which is nice cuz over 4 turns I practically gave myself 16 shielding while also shielding allies

I think by end of 7 round combat I had shielded myself every turn and 2 allies (dream druid, warlock)
So 28 for myself and probably 10-20 combined between the two allies

Which makes sense.. Loolong back now I've never actually dropped to 0. Gotten close 5 hp+2 temp butpst of time I kust outlast everything.


Ill have to look at it with that mindset more!

I would really talk to your DM about allowing you to change out your Tavern Brawler feat, as it really just competes with your Bonus Action aura. A good option for Storm Heralds is Sentinel, as this prevents enemies from running out of your aura, or protects allies while they're in it. Either you force enemies to always stay adjacent to you, or you get in extra damage to punish enemies that are attacking your friends. A Win/Win.

Ritual Caster and Tough are also great options, although I wouldn't take Tough until your Constitution was maxed out.

[Shuruke]

I would really talk to your DM about allowing you to change out your Tavern Brawler feat, as it really just competes with your Bonus Action aura. A good option for Storm Heralds is Sentinel, as this prevents enemies from running out of your aura, or protects allies while they're in it. Either you force enemies to always stay adjacent to you, or you get in extra damage to punish enemies that are attacking your friends. A Win/Win.

Ritual Caster and Tough are also great options, although I wouldn't take Tough until your Constitution was maxed out.

The bonus action grapple is just kinda their
Have only used it twice. Main reason for tavern brawler was for proficiency with improvised weapons. Wanted the +6 to hit instead of +4.
Next level it'll be +7.

Been coming across alot of high ish a.c enemies so the +2 is helpful
(With +4 I wouldve needed 19 or higher to hit rather than 17. Meeting doesnt beat at this table so u gotta roll higher than a.c )

When it comes to another feat at 8 ill probably grab martial adept (least that was plan) to add fun to acid and other thrown things
Probably distracting and precision

[Yuroch Kern]

Since its thrown and not finesse its strength
Least that's how the dm ruled it

He's also allowing reckless to work on thrown weapons that use strength.

By RAW no it wouldn't work
But the phb is a guideline
We tweaked it a little for the sake of fun

Would just playing a normal two handed weapon barb with gwm be better

Sure
But we already have a gwm user so he can do that
And ill do this ranged throwing fluff stuff

Even if I was doing greatsword I would just use a reach weapon because reach weapons deal 1d12 or 2d6 in this campaign meaning there no reason to use the normal two handed weapons

Me missing as much as I was. Was with advantage

Sure the 2 net attacks were just normal rolls because it cancelled out

But the unarmed strike I made against him and the torch attack were misses even with advantage
Again I needed a 17 on dice or higher or higher
Or 4/20. 20% to hit in each roll
Advantage if I remember right increased it to 30% hit

I see where you are coming from but comparing what I wanna do to the most possibly optimized choice doesn't make sense because that isnt what I'm going for

If u wanna compare compare
Longsword and shield master against
Tavern brawler and throwing weapons/bonus action grapple


So in short
I have been attacking with advantage
And my first attack against the guy was a 21 total

But since I didnt have the description of him in very well made full plate and a shield till the DM described my attack as just flopping against his armor it didn't help.
Could the 2 attacks I made with net hit if I had normal advantage
Yeah. But its not like I always throw a net. I threw it the first time thinking it was a a.c 16 enemy so I only needed 10 or higher to restrain

Second time it was because
Hey that did **** ton of damage
If I can lend this net he'll have disadvantage and have to waste an attack on net to get rid of it.


I see where your coming from for gwm

But also sometimes its nice to take a step away from the gwm and sharpshooter hit as hard as possible builds

I like throwing grappled enemies off high places. Your Strength is sufficient to drag proned enemies 15' every round. Drag them up a cliff and use them as the dropped rock. Improvise them as the thrown chair. Hold them up and Improvise them as a shield. I think your choice of Tavern Brawler is awesome. I haven't read the whole thread yet, so I hope I'm not ninja'd.

[Yuroch Kern]

This is my first time playing barbarian and only really chose it because I liked the idea of rping like a book learned pally (religion and nature prof) while being a barbarian
Then just went with fire themes cuz Pholtus so he uses torch anx otger unconventional combat stuff. Had been really fun other than like last 3 combats
(One against a hard to pin down caster and weretiger , one against ropers, one against the goblins.)

The weretiger one was kind of on me. I walked into a con save AOE to walk through and get into melee rather than having to run all the way around. Failed the con save (needed to roll 4 or higher to pass and rolled a 3) so roll20 just hated me that session. Then tge way the weretiger was described seemed as if it was just a Tabaxi with a shield. So when I went into melee with it and went to knock prone for the gwm character even though I got a 19 total it beat me in check.

Ropers were just annoying cuz ropers but that was at least a little fun because I slammed dynamite into ones mouth with a held action for when it was gonna bite. Tanked 4 bites I think from one so that was 4 turns of it hitting Me and I still had 18 hp and 2 temp hp with rage (so probably another 2 or 3 hits) but outside of dynamite and landing a javelin hit for 8 damage (2+ bonuses) I didn't do much

Goblin fight I was just a meat shield. Tanked total of 10 hits before healing. Lots were only 5 or 6 damage after being halved and getting through temp hp. Boss was real damage dealer dealing around 12 damage after being halved and temp hp.


For most part im enjoying it but barbarian just feels like it doesn't do whole lot at low levels

Barbarians have been specialized as tanks in 5e, even without the Bear Totem. While it's possible to vary them, 5th level is when the options get better, as there is a lot you can do with Extra Attack and Fast Movement as far as position goes. I have never had a bad time with Tavern Brawler, heck, my DM decided it was a sleeper OP feat after really getting into the bare mechanics. Don't forget also to use Improvised Weapons to gain the Rage bonus damage with the shovel/ladder/enemy/cauldron attack. Then BA Grapple. Then Extra Attack prone.