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View Full Version : Building for Spear of Backbiting



Dalebert
2019-04-21, 06:03 PM
I have one on an AL character and can trade it. When I got it, I had an existing halfling monk in mind. Halfling is key here because the spear stabs you on a natural 1. Problem is that character is built on a higher wisdom and having shillelagh from a druid dip. So I ultimately decided it wasn't worth the attunement slot when it would mostly be inferior to my +3 staff and shillelagh.

So I'm making a new halfling. Multiple attacks is key. For my tastes, that narrows it down to EK or horizon walker ranger. Both get three attacks at lvl 11, with the ranger's being context-dependent, but the spear would help him with that. Not thinking too hard about lvl 20. May never get there.

The horizon walker seems really fun but rangers in general just seem poorly prepared to be gishes compared to EKs. EKs start with con save prof and get extra feats to get warcaster, which seems crucial for either. And needing that asap means being stuck at 16 str until lvl 12 while the EK gets there at 8. (stout nimbleness at 4 for both).

Pros and cons:
EK can start with Dancing Lights. Ranger gets Darkvision at 5th.
Ranger is a half caster vs. EK's third, but EK can maintain concentration way better so Ranger may blow a lot of spells just getting attacked.
Ranger gets Haste at 9th. EK at 14th (I think?). Ranger also gets Hunter's Mark to make his attacks do more dmg... while it lasts.

Anyone inclined to defend the horizon walker?

strangebloke
2019-04-21, 06:40 PM
Ranger has better out-of-combat utility, EK has higher AC.

that's honestly all I've got to say about this one.

Foxhound438
2019-04-21, 11:55 PM
I think the fighter is probably better suited to abuse the weapon than anything else since you can get more throws at a single creature, which is very nice since the spear comes back immediately and does extra damage when thrown

That said, on a pure fighter you're going to be throwing with strength, while a ranger with 1 level of monk tossed in somewhere can use dex. I'm not super sure on my AL item rules, but IIRC you have to trade items of the same rarity, which means you probably have time to fit that one level dip in somewhere before you're using the spear. Also, if you account for hunter's mark and the L3 damage feature that horizon walker gets you do keep up well enough on single targets if they last long enough to really worry about being +/- a few points of damage per turn despite having one less attack.

Keravath
2019-04-22, 12:49 PM
You mention AL. I am guessing that the spear came from Tales of the Yawning Portal? Anyway, I think your biggest problem may be trading it to the character you want to play with it.

According to TYP, the backbiting spear is very rare. The AL content catalog guidance put this on magic item table G in the DMG. To trade items in AL you have to match both rarity and table. I took a quick look and I can't seem to find any other very rares on table G which you could obtain on another character it order to trade the spear to them.

Man_Over_Game
2019-04-22, 12:53 PM
Ranger has better out-of-combat utility, EK has higher AC.

that's honestly all I've got to say about this one.

This is my opinion, too. EK's are better tanks (using Shield and high AC). A Horizon Walker would be a lot more mobile and provide more out of combat.

It's effectively the difference between +2 AC and Reach. Both are fine, but do different things.

Dalebert
2019-04-22, 02:48 PM
The AL content catalog guidance put this on magic item table G in the DMG.

There has to be an error, either on the items rarity or table. I'm looking into it.

EDIT: There are some very rare items on that table. There aren't many but some of them are certainly attainable and are static drops in AL adventures.

Zene
2019-04-23, 01:45 AM
EK can pick up haste at 13.

Horizon walker is cool for teleporting around the battlefield. Just a fun play style.

EK just has too many advantages, though. Besides the ones you listed; Eldritch Strike can be a lot of fun too. Plus those extra ASIs can open up Bountiful Luck, or PAM, or other fun feats.

Though honestly I think a halfling kensei monk would be the most fun way to do this.

Dalebert
2019-04-24, 09:17 AM
Though honestly I think a halfling kensei monk would be the most fun way to do this.

I seriously considered it. Many of the same problems as the ranger and even fewer attacks with the spear. I'd be MAD and have two fewer feats, and would really also kinda need mobile. It wouldn't be quite as bad if I could play a ghost wise but I can't. Shadow monk works a little better--can be ghost wise and doesn't really need mobile, but I have a level 20 one already.

Keravath
2019-04-24, 08:35 PM
There has to be an error, either on the items rarity or table. I'm looking into it.

EDIT: There are some very rare items on that table. There aren't many but some of them are certainly attainable and are static drops in AL adventures.

I'd be curious to know which items on table G are very rare. I was curious and spent a couple minutes going through the list of very rare items from the donjon website and none of them appear on table G. Of course another AL module could have introduced a magic item that isn't in the DMG (like the Backbiter spear) which could also be a very rare on table G but I'd be interested to know what that might be.

Dalebert
2019-04-24, 09:58 PM
I'd be curious to know which items on table G are very rare.

Sentient Shortsword (CoS), Headman's Axe, Devastation Orb, Bracelet of Rock Magic Amulet of the Black Skull, Ancient Relic Red Dragon's Thighbone, Heward's Hireling Armor, & the Spear of Backbiting.