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View Full Version : Optimization Optimal Crafting Artificer Cohort



Endarire
2019-04-21, 06:14 PM
Intro
Greetings, all!

Next week, our group is scheduled to start a new campaign generally tailored to our tastes. I have a list of things I want to experience in tabletop D&D 3.5, and getting lots of cheap gear from an Artificer cohort is among them.

I've barely played Artificers, but my experience has been that they've required lots of time and money to make stuff for use in the field. (I'm aware of the various Artificer and cost reduction handbooks, which I've read.) I'd rather have this Artificer in the background crafting stuff since, as a cohort, he gains EXP when his master does.

Questions for Now
1: Since this is a gestalt character, what should his other side be? (He will likely be a Human Artificer // something, meaning only single-classed Artificer on one side.) Multiclassing on the other side is an option, though I want to preferably use no feats to support the other side while generating craft feats from that side.

2: What should his race be? I've debated between Warforged (for the level 4 Tools of War alternative class feature from Races of Eberron which makes his craft reserve's EXP count double toward making and modifying metaphysical arms & armor) and Human (for a bonus feat at level 1, which grants access to crafting discounts sooner, such as via Magic Artisan (Legendary Artisan).)


Character Creation
=This is planned as a high-power interplanar campaign. We start on the Plane of Ysgard/Asgard on one of the floating islands.

=All 3.5 sources are allowed, plus homebrew as the group wants it. (We're already using the Tome Monk (https://dnd-wiki.org/wiki/Monk,_Tome_(3.5e_Class)); Fun, Powerful Sorcerer (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Qtn0MDtFABUY9upKwTZlzd9SOeNPF7DHfzv4DsAmaNQ/edit?usp=sharing); and my revised Tome of Battle material (http://bit.ly/2XwckKs).)

=We start as ECL3 gestalt characters with 1 free LA per side. Level adjustments are split down the middle. Assume Fire-Souled's LA is reduced to +1 or +2. (Fire-Souled grants Leadership as a bonus feat, which grants a cohort per main character.) Assume casting base classes and manifesting base classes can choose their primary mental stat at clas level 1.

=Psionic and magic craft feats are interchangeable by default.

=Craft reserves accumulate between levels. They don't reset.

=No Eberronian action points unless we take feats or acquire them by some other means.

=All 3.5 sources are allowed, plus homebrew as the group wants it. (We're already using the Tome Monk; Fun, Powerful Sorcerer; and my revised Tome of Battle material.)

=Once a class skill, always a class skill. All skill ranks cap at 3 + HD unless exceeded by some other ability. We combine Hide & Move Silently into Stealth, Listen & Spot into Perception. Search is still a separate skill.

Planned Party
=We might have one extra main character with stats to be determined.

-TN or NG Human Fire-Souled Magic-Blooded Cloistered Cleric1/Hathran5/Manyfold SummonerX/Full Cleric CastingY // Fun, Powerful Sorcerer20. This character summons, buffs, and does offensive stuff. His other template is either White Dragonspawn or an adapted Mulhorandi Divine Minion of Thoth (adapted for our purposes).

Via Divine Metamagic (Heighten) and the Summon Elemental reserve feat, he starts being able to summon an Elemental 'pet.'

(I assume Cloistered Cleric on this character was CHA-based for casting instead of WIS-based.)

----NG or CG Silverbrow Human Magic-Blooded Bard9/Lyric Thaumaturge1/Sublime Chord2/Lyric Thaumaturge+X/Heartfire FannerY // Cloistered Cleric1 (Kobold Domain, Travel Devotion)/Sublime Way Marshal.X This character is largely about the Bard Song with spells and melee secondarily. He is very much support. His 1 free LA likely goes to some combination of White Dragonspawn, Dark, Quasilycanthrope and Divine Minion.

This assumes he can make Cloistered Cleric a CHA-based class. This class is there primarily for the Kobold domain for trapping, but if we bring along the Artificer mentioned below, this level is less necessary.

-NG or TN Human Divine Minion Fire-Souled Druid5/Planar Shepherd of Elysium10/Druid+5 // Swordsage2/Tome Monk1 or 2/Swordsage+X. This is a melee-focused character.

His animal companion starts as a Warbeast Riding Dog but, at level 4, becomes a Fleshraker who may later be trained to be a Warbeast.

----NG or TN Human OR Warforged Artficier20// Martial Wizard (Conjurer)3/Master Conjurer10/Full CastingX. In the field, he's there for the locks, traps, and crowd contro/buff spells. Mostly, he's there to get us items crafted super cheaply! Like the Bardic cohort, he is very much support. His 1 free LA likely goes to some combination of White Dragonspawn, Dark, Quasilycanthrope and Divine Minion.

Mato
2019-04-21, 10:39 PM
0. A useful meat shield, like a crusader, to defend and heal your main character. Specially since the other guy has like +4 LA and is playing a cleric and the bard can buff your cohort.

1. A better spellcasting class of course, like a wizard.

2. Warforged of course. With your wizard's spellcasting you can use alter self to become an animated object or various golems for all sorts of immunities. You can also access an exclusive list of items, double your reserve pool for certain creations, and you can access wand bonding. It seems like your DM won't have a problem with partially charged wands...

Endarire
2019-04-21, 11:35 PM
@Mato: Our character creation rules made level adjustments more appealing. Also, see Fun, Powerful Sorcerer (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Qtn0MDtFABUY9upKwTZlzd9SOeNPF7DHfzv4DsAmaNQ/edit?usp=sharing) for a Sor that rivals a Wizard. (Of course, Wizard is still INT-based and grants item creation feats every 5 levels.)

What is Wand Bonding and where is it described?

Mato
2019-04-22, 01:04 AM
What is Wand Bonding and where is it described?City of Stormreach, page 119.

It lets you use a spell or infusion slot instead of a charge from a wand and provides a slight increase to it's caster level. It's main benefit is with partially charged wands, you can buy a wand of endure elements with 1 charge for 15gp and just cast it whenever you want using an infusion (or that excel sheet of homebrew). It's the cheapest way to expand on your "list of spells known".

It requires warforged and can be taken as an artificer bonus feat.

Endarire
2019-04-22, 01:14 AM
@Mato: Thankee!

I thought I found it earlier, but didn't recognize some of the text.

Ramza00
2019-04-22, 01:44 AM
What is Wand Bonding and where is it described?




City of Stormreach, page 119.

It lets you use a spell or infusion slot instead of a charge from a wand and provides a slight increase to it's caster level. It's main benefit is with partially charged wands, you can buy a wand of endure elements with 1 charge for 15gp and just cast it whenever you want using an infusion (or that excel sheet of homebrew). It's the cheapest way to expand on your "list of spells known".

It requires warforged and can be taken as an artificer bonus feat.

If you are doing mixed settings, Lost Empires of Faerun has a similar but inferior feat with Channel Charge.

Channel Charge allows you to be any race, and it works with prepared spells (that already have a spell in the slot) or spontaneous spells. Requires a UMD check and the spot sacrifice is 1 level higher than the wand. This Feat can't be taken until HD 7 for it requires 4th level or higher spells.

Wand Bonding can be taken at HD1, requires Warforged, the slot sacrificed is equal or higher than the spell level of the wand, and lastly works with infusion or spontaneous spells but not prepared casters. Oh one more thing Wand Bonding gives you a small caster level boost.

But yeah both of these feats effectively turn wands into runestaffs if you want to use a wand in that way.

-----

Be willing to use Spell-Storing Infusion just as a wand for the cost of XP is not much more than the cost to craft a wand itself.

A normal wand crafting cost is

375*Spell Level*Caster Level / 50 =7.5 GP per charge * spell level * caster level (the artisan feats reduce this), plus XP cost of 3/5*Spell Level*Caster Level

But Spell Storing Infusion cost is 1 XP*Spell Level*Caster Level+1 of your 1st level infusions but you get any spell up to 4th level on the fly with the casting time of 1 minute. So you have to ask yourself is trading 1 XP*Spell Level*Caster Level vs 0.60XP*Spell Level*Caster Level+7.5 GP*Spell Level*Caster Level worth it? Sometimes it is and sometimes it isn't.

thethird
2019-04-22, 01:49 PM
Intro
Greetings, all!

Next week, our group is scheduled to start a new campaign generally tailored to our tastes. I have a list of things I want to experience in tabletop D&D 3.5, and getting lots of cheap gear from an Artificer cohort is among them.

I've barely played Artificers, but my experience has been that they've required lots of time and money to make stuff for use in the field. (I'm aware of the various Artificer and cost reduction handbooks, which I've read.) I'd rather have this Artificer in the background crafting stuff since, as a cohort, he gains EXP when his master does.

Questions for Now
1: Since this is a gestalt character, what should his other side be? (He will likely be a Human Artificer // something, meaning only single-classed Artificer on one side.) Multiclassing on the other side is an option, though I want to preferably use no feats to support the other side while generating craft feats from that side.

2: What should his race be? I've debated between Warforged (for the level 4 Tools of War alternative class feature from Races of Eberron which makes his craft reserve's EXP count double toward making and modifying metaphysical arms & armor) and Human (for a bonus feat at level 1, which grants access to crafting discounts sooner, such as via Magic Artisan (Legendary Artisan).)


Character Creation
=This is planned as a high-power interplanar campaign. We start on the Plane of Ysgard/Asgard on one of the floating islands.

=All 3.5 sources are allowed, plus homebrew as the group wants it. (We're already using the Tome Monk (https://dnd-wiki.org/wiki/Monk,_Tome_(3.5e_Class)); Fun, Powerful Sorcerer (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Qtn0MDtFABUY9upKwTZlzd9SOeNPF7DHfzv4DsAmaNQ/edit?usp=sharing); and my revised Tome of Battle material (http://bit.ly/2XwckKs).)

=We start as ECL3 gestalt characters with 1 free LA per side. Level adjustments are split down the middle. Assume Fire-Souled's LA is reduced to +1 or +2. (Fire-Souled grants Leadership as a bonus feat, which grants a cohort per main character.) Assume casting base classes and manifesting base classes can choose their primary mental stat at clas level 1.

=Psionic and magic craft feats are interchangeable by default.

=Craft reserves accumulate between levels. They don't reset.

=No Eberronian action points unless we take feats or acquire them by some other means.

=All 3.5 sources are allowed, plus homebrew as the group wants it. (We're already using the Tome Monk; Fun, Powerful Sorcerer; and my revised Tome of Battle material.)

=Once a class skill, always a class skill. All skill ranks cap at 3 + HD unless exceeded by some other ability. We combine Hide & Move Silently into Stealth, Listen & Spot into Perception. Search is still a separate skill.

Planned Party
=We might have one extra main character with stats to be determined.

-TN or NG Human Fire-Souled Magic-Blooded Cloistered Cleric1/Hathran5/Manyfold SummonerX/Full Cleric CastingY // Fun, Powerful Sorcerer20. This character summons, buffs, and does offensive stuff. His other template is either White Dragonspawn or an adapted Mulhorandi Divine Minion of Thoth (adapted for our purposes).

Via Divine Metamagic (Heighten) and the Summon Elemental reserve feat, he starts being able to summon an Elemental 'pet.'

(I assume Cloistered Cleric on this character was CHA-based for casting instead of WIS-based.)

----NG or CG Silverbrow Human Magic-Blooded Bard9/Lyric Thaumaturge1/Sublime Chord2/Lyric Thaumaturge+X/Heartfire FannerY // Cloistered Cleric1 (Kobold Domain, Travel Devotion)/Sublime Way Marshal.X This character is largely about the Bard Song with spells and melee secondarily. He is very much support. His 1 free LA likely goes to some combination of White Dragonspawn, Dark, Quasilycanthrope and Divine Minion.

This assumes he can make Cloistered Cleric a CHA-based class. This class is there primarily for the Kobold domain for trapping, but if we bring along the Artificer mentioned below, this level is less necessary.

-NG or TN Human Divine Minion Fire-Souled Druid5/Planar Shepherd of Elysium10/Druid+5 // Swordsage2/Tome Monk1 or 2/Swordsage+X. This is a melee-focused character.

His animal companion starts as a Warbeast Riding Dog but, at level 4, becomes a Fleshraker who may later be trained to be a Warbeast.

----NG or TN Human OR Warforged Artficier20// Martial Wizard (Conjurer)3/Master Conjurer10/Full CastingX. In the field, he's there for the locks, traps, and crowd contro/buff spells. Mostly, he's there to get us items crafted super cheaply! Like the Bardic cohort, he is very much support. His 1 free LA likely goes to some combination of White Dragonspawn, Dark, Quasilycanthrope and Divine Minion.

If your party is familiar with spheres a technician (http://spheresofpower.wikidot.com/technician) is good on the other side of the gestalt. It is what I gestalt the most with artificer these days, but it would be probably be a bad idea to introduce an entirely new subsystem even if spheres of might aren't too out of the wazo. You can get this guy to be almost feat free while also strongly complementing your artificer crafting.

With that out of the way specially given your choose mental stat for casting, and the fact that you want this guy for out of combat stuff, as well as the starting level I would go with warlock for the gestalt. It gives early access to take 10 for UMD. If you are going with psionic and magic crafting feats being interchangably all the more reason, for getting the good things out of both psionic and normal artificer.

It is unclear to me if this:


----NG or TN Human OR Warforged Artficier20// Martial Wizard (Conjurer)3/Master Conjurer10/Full CastingX. In the field, he's there for the locks, traps, and crowd contro/buff spells. Mostly, he's there to get us items crafted super cheaply! Like the Bardic cohort, he is very much support. His 1 free LA likely goes to some combination of White Dragonspawn, Dark, Quasilycanthrope and Divine Minion.

Is the cohort. And in such case is this the guy you are building? If so go definitively human to get a mark of making, at this level summon marked homunculus is the bestest spell.

With 1 free LA I am partial to make my artificers karsites. They are far from the bestest race ever, but I like how their inability to become actual magic wielders fluffs them into artificery.