Balance Check: What happens if all feats no longer have ability score prereqs?

[Endarire]

Greetings, all!

Just as the title says. I don't expect things to change much, since melee types will have 13+ STR for Power Attack and Druids should simply have 13+ WIS for Natural Spell.

It also means Bards don't all need to have 15+ INT and CHA for Words of Creation, and Druids who didn't happen to have 19+ WIS can still take Dragon Wild Shape.

[Zaq]

I don’t think stats are an especially key part of balancing feats in this edition, especially considering how many different entirely reasonable ways there are to generate stat spreads. It’s not a guarantee that the player was able to CHOOSE the relevant stat, so why punish them for having a DM who engages in an unfavorable stat generation process?

Stat prereqs for feats do make a certain degree of sense (theoretically, at least, if not always in reality) in 4e, which leans pretty hard into using one very specific point-buy method. You have enough stat points to do what you want and do it well, but it does cost you to put in a 15 here or a bunch of 13s there into stats that aren’t your areas of focus, so that feels meaningful. Still under player control, but it does send you in a direction you might not otherwise go if you want something specific.

But yeah, I agree with you. Just axe the stat prereqs entirely. They don’t improve the game.

[Telonius]

It would make (un-)life a lot easier for Undead meldshapers.

[RhoTheWanderer]

The things that jump out at me are archery and Two-Weapon Fighting as those two feat-trees generally have high ability score prereqs. Being as a skilled archer is already most likely pumping out their Dex to hit their targets, I don't see this being a big deal for archers; however, TWF on the other hand...

Suddenly, you don't need a high Dex and a high Str to have a good chance to hit and deal a massive amount of damage with TWF. Albeit, normally, TWF (due to the penalties to hit) is best done when you can tack on a bunch of extra damage (Sneak Attack is the classic example. Typical TWF rogue build: Mediocre str [just enough to make sure you have an okay carry capacity], high Dex, take Weapon Finesse. High Dex to hit [making you mostly S.A.D.], Sneak Attack damage scales with level, making up for your low Str, and also making up for the times that your attack flat-out misses due to TWF penalties to hit).

Yes, normally you can use Weapon Finesse to get Dex to hit, and in Pathfinder you can use Slashing Grace to get Dex to damage, but the caveats there are that it (1) requires spending extra feats, and (2) Slashing Grace explicitly does not work when you have pretty much anything in your off-hand.

Especially if you use point-buy to generate stats, expect the possibility of a character in full plate, with a mediocre Dex, with Str pumped out the wazoo, using TWF, and possibly even combining it with Power Attack. I'm imagining the concept of a half-orc fighter using the old thug alternate class feature that gives fighter a rogue's sneak attack progression would get a lot nastier. I think 3.5e had a feat somewhere (Oversized Two-Weapon Fighting, I think?) that allowed TWF with two-handed weapons or two one-handed weapons or something (I forget which) as if wielding a one-handed and a light weapon. Furthermore, if your Str is already much higher than your Dex, there's no reason to take Weapon Finesse, but Power Attack starts to look more attractive.

TL;DR: Expect to see more high-Str characters taking TWF, and expect that they might possibly throw in Power Attack for extra damage. And also expect fewer high-Dex characters, unless they're trying to optimize their Dex-based skills instead of their damage.

Edit: To paraphrase ArqArturo: The Thug-ACF fighters of the world would make statues of you (with the chopped, diced, and finely minced corpses of a thousand kobolds) if this happened.

[Psyren]

A big one would be the Int 13 expectation for Combat Expertise, which a lot of martial feats require. This locks out a lot of martial builds and concepts, especially for brutish races (e.g. Orcs) in lower point-buy games. Knowing how to trip or wrestle someone in a bar fight should not require that much intelligence or agility for example.

Pathfinder actually did something like this by creating the Dirty Fighting feat, and the response appeared to be overwhelmingly positive.

[mabriss lethe]

While I can't speak to every feat, I agree with the others. It will streamline a lot of builds and probably won't break things.

[King of Nowhere]

A big one would be the Int 13 expectation for Combat Expertise, which a lot of martial feats require. This locks out a lot of martial builds and concepts, especially for brutish races (e.g. Orcs) in lower point-buy games. Knowing how to trip or wrestle someone in a bar fight should not require that much intelligence or agility for example.


+1

so go ahead and do it