Pathfinder optimization contest interest check

[The Kool]

There are at least five different competitions for D&D 3.5 running on this forum, but none for Pathfinder. Do people want a Pathfinder optimization challenge? Is there a reason there isn't one? I might be willing to get the ball rolling as chairman.

[Gallowglass]

I would LOVE to see a villainous competition or themed character build competition for pathfinder. My lack of familiarity with 3.5 vs my access to pathfinder and knowledge of pathfinder is what keeps me from ever entering one of the 3.5 contests.

[upho]

Count me in!

[Swaoeaeieu]

i doubt my ability to participate to any significant degree, but i would love to see pathinder builds put on display.

[Florian]

General interest, yes, but not enough time right now, RL is pretty stressful lately. Couldn't even create a regular party of five for the Necromancer contest Quertus wanted to get started.

[Kurald Galain]

I'd love to read these. I can probably provide feedback where desired (especially where it relates to gishes); I probably don't have time to create complicated builds for this purpose myself.

[Serafina]

Pathfinder is very well suited for this because of the PFSRD/Archives of Nethys, so all the build components can be linked for all to see, and it's easier for people to participate.

Keep in mind that Pathfinder still has active 3rd-party creators, such as the Spheres of Power/Might system (http://spheresofpower.wikidot.com/). Making a competition that allows one of those systems would be a nice promotion which they quite deserve.

[The Kool]

Pathfinder is very well suited for this because of the PFSRD/Archives of Nethys, so all the build components can be linked for all to see, and it's easier for people to participate.

Keep in mind that Pathfinder still has active 3rd-party creators, such as the Spheres of Power/Might system (http://spheresofpower.wikidot.com/). Making a competition that allows one of those systems would be a nice promotion which they quite deserve.

Yeah this is part of why I'm surprised it hasn't been done yet. I'm waiting to get a bit more confidence of participation before I actually move forward with it, but I think the first incarnation would probably be the mirror of Iron Chef. Third party material, while glorious, is probably best not mixed into the same competition... but I'd still love to see it. I'd actually enjoy participating in that one myself.

[Felyndiira]

This sounds fun. If you start it, I'm definitely in.

[Kurald Galain]

Third party material, while glorious, is probably best not mixed into the same competition...
To increase participation, it strikes me as a good idea to have the first few rounds use material that most players are familiar with, i.e. first-party only.

[exelsisxax]

Yes. Surprised it hasn't happened earlier.

[The Kool]

What systems should be excluded, to keep a level playing field? I'm not wholly familiar with Pathfinder, so I don't know how the playing field has changed. I just know it has. Unchained stuff, for example... should that be excluded? Mythics I assume should.

[Kurald Galain]

What systems should be excluded, to keep a level playing field? I'm not wholly familiar with Pathfinder, so I don't know how the playing field has changed. I just know it has. Unchained stuff, for example... should that be excluded? Mythics I assume should.

Mythic is ridiculously imbalanced and almost nobody uses it, so that should probably be excluded.

Unchained should be fine, and unlikely to show up in any optimized build.

[Florian]

What systems should be excluded, to keep a level playing field? I'm not wholly familiar with Pathfinder, so I don't know how the playing field has changed. I just know it has. Unchained stuff, for example... should that be excluded? Mythics I assume should.

The easy answer would be to start with the original PRD, meaning hardcovers only, no further splats.
The expanded answer would be using the AONPRD, which includes everything from Paizo, but also has a PFS legal toggle.
Mythic, well...., it´s no big dealbreaker, a fun system and I don't think you'll find people all too interested in it.

Overall, you'll find that it is rather rare to create builds above the level range of 12 to 15, as they either work at the point most long campaigns end, or are not worthwhile discussing.

The only thing worth discussing as a game changer is using the retraining rules as they are. Allowing them also means allowing "builds in reverse", meaning that a character can have access to stuff like feats with way higher prerequisites than possible for an equal character who "just" has level straight up.

[upho]

Mythic is ridiculously imbalanced and almost nobody uses it, so that should probably be excluded.

Unchained should be fine, and unlikely to show up in any optimized build.This.

I also think allowing only 1PP - meaning material found on Archives of Nethys - is a good idea for the first few rounds. DSP's recreations/expansions of 3.5 subsystems would probably make for the most natural next step (psionics, Path of War and Akashic Mysteries), and then DDS's Spheres and perhaps some of the more popular other DSP stuff (such as Steelforge and Lords of the Wild).


The only thing worth discussing as a game changer is using the retraining rules as they are. Allowing them also means allowing "builds in reverse", meaning that a character can have access to stuff like feats with way higher prerequisites than possible for an equal character who "just" has level straight up.This and perhaps also Combat Stamina and Signature Skill. But these rules could also be decided on separately for each contest, just as with retraining. Otherwise, I believe the most common (and fun) solution here is to allow retraining and both Combat Stamina and Signature Skill via feats, and the fighter gets Combat Stamina for free.

[The Kool]

This.

I also think allowing only 1PP - meaning material found on Archives of Nethys - is a good idea for the first few rounds. DSP's recreations/expansions of 3.5 subsystems would probably make for the most natural next step (psionics, Path of War and Akashic Mysteries), and then DDS's Spheres and perhaps some of the more popular other DSP stuff (such as Steelforge and Lords of the Wild).

That sounds about like what I was thinking, except that the spheres change the game a bit too much to have in a standard competition. Easy to optimize and rack up flexible absolutes.

[CactusAir]

To increase participation, it strikes me as a good idea to have the first few rounds use material that most players are familiar with, i.e. first-party only.

Is that actually the most familiar? I heard that 3pp sales have exceeded paizo sales for written PF content.

[upho]

That sounds about like what I was thinking, except that the spheres change the game a bit too much to have in a standard competition. Easy to optimize and rack up flexible absolutes.Yeah, I also believe Spheres stuff would have to be in separate competitions, not standard. Sorry, I should've made that clear in my previous post.


Is that actually the most familiar? I heard that 3pp sales have exceeded paizo sales for written PF content.Overall or just last week? Overall seems highly dubious and contrary to the general impression I've gotten from forums on the interwebs. Where did you hear this?

[Kurald Galain]

Is that actually the most familiar? I heard that 3pp sales have exceeded paizo sales for written PF content.

Yes, because 3PP is not a single entity. Even if your unsourced statement were true, PFF-only would be smaller than the sum of PF+Rite, PF+Froggod, PF+spheres, and whatnot; but it would still be larger than each individual type of 3PP.