Multiple abilities on a magic item

[mehs]

For the life of me, I remember that adding on multiple similar abilities to the same magic item gives you a discount for the less valuable abilities, but now I am being told that that is only for items that dont take up body slots and that for body slot magic items, it comes at a 50% markup as if for multiple different abilities.

My current belief is that for body slot magic items, it is neither a discount (as they do take up body slots) nor a markup (as they are not different abilities).
Is this right?


Also, has it always been this way because this is a real surprise for something I had been using for a while.

[Psyren]

Not sure I totally follow you, but the "50% rule" works as follows:


If the item is one that occupies a specific place on a character’s body, the cost of adding any additional ability to that item increases by 50%. For example, if a character adds the power to confer invisibility to her ring of protection 2, the cost of adding this ability is the same as for creating a ring of invisibility multiplied by 1.5.

It doesn't care what kind of ability you're adding to the item and I don't see any mention of "similar abilities" or "less valuable abilities." All it cares about is: does the item you're trying to add an ability to occupy a specific slot? If so, adding any abilities to it is more expensive.

The reason for this is that slotted items are meant to have the drawback of occupying limited space on the body (thus causing tradeoffs), and if you were allowed to pile all the abilities you want onto a single slotted item for no extra cost then you would overcome that drawback/tradeoff.

[mehs]

Multiple Similar Abilities: For items with multiple similar abilities that don’t take up space on a character’s body, use the following formula: Calculate the price of the single most costly ability, then add 75% of the value of the next most costly ability, plus 1/2 the value of any other abilities.

Multiple Different Abilities: Abilities such as an attack roll bonus or saving throw bonus and a spell-like function are not similar, and their values are simply added together to determine the cost. For items that take up a space on a character’s body, each additional power not only has no discount but instead has a 50% increase in price.



Multiple different abilities Multiply lower item cost by 1.5 Helm of brilliance


It is listed in and below the chart thing

[Elysiume]

Not sure I totally follow you, but the "50% rule" works as follows:

It doesn't care what kind of ability you're adding to the item and I don't see any mention of "similar abilities" or "less valuable abilities." All it cares about is: does the item you're trying to add an ability to occupy a specific slot? If so, adding any abilities to it is more expensive.

The reason for this is that slotted items are meant to have the drawback of occupying limited space on the body (thus causing tradeoffs), and if you were allowed to pile all the abilities you want onto a single slotted item for no extra cost then you would overcome that drawback/tradeoff.I think they mean this (http://legacy.aonprd.com/coreRulebook/magicItems/magicItemCreation.html):

Multiple Similar Abilities: For items with multiple similar abilities that don't take up space on a character's body, use the following formula: Calculate the price of the single most costly ability, then add 75% of the value of the next most costly ability, plus 1/2 the value of any other abilities.This one does give a discount for more abilities for the less valuable (since I assume they mean less costly/expensive), but it only applies to slotless items. I can't find any real explanation of what qualifies as similar--does it need to be a bonus to the same stat (e.g. a luck and deflection bonus to AC)?

It's followed up with this:

Multiple Different Abilities: Abilities such as an attack roll bonus or saving throw bonus and a spell-like function are not similar, and their values are simply added together to determine the cost. For items that take up a space on a character's body, each additional power not only has no discount but instead has a 50% increase in price.So this one adds an extra cost for slotted items for different abilities and ignores slotless.

There's also a line in the table that reads:

Multiple different abilities | Multiply lower item cost by 1.5 | Helm of BrillianceI just read this as a duplicate of the full multiple different abilities text and assume it only applies to slotted items.

So:
Similar abilities, slotless: 1x modifier on most costly ability, .75x modifier on second most costly ability, .5x modifier on third and onward, overall 2x modifier for slotless.
Different abilities, slotless: Overall 2x modifier for slotless.
Similar abilities, slotted: No modifiers.
Different abilities, slotted: All abilities past the first cost 1.5x.


Then at the bottom of the page, you have:

The cost to add additional abilities to an item is the same as if the item was not magical, less the value of the original item. Thus, a +1 longsword can be made into a +2 vorpal longsword, with the cost to create it being equal to that of a +2 vorpal sword minus the cost of a +1 longsword.

If the item is one that occupies a specific place on a character's body, the cost of adding any additional ability to that item increases by 50%. For example, if a character adds the power to confer invisibility to her ring of protection +2, the cost of adding this ability is the same as for creating a ring of invisibility multiplied by 1.5.I'd almost read this as adding an ability always costs 1.5x regardless of similarity, if not for the first half which says that adding an affix costs as much as if you'd done it in the first place. So either similar abilities also cost 1.5x on slotted items or adding them is exempt to this rule.

[Florian]

IThis one does give a discount for more abilities for the less valuable (since I assume they mean less costly/expensive), but it only applies to slotless items. I can't find any real explanation of what qualifies as similar--does it need to be a bonus to the same stat (e.g. a luck and deflection bonus to AC)?

You can use staves as an example item for this.

[Jack_Simth]

I think they mean this (http://legacy.aonprd.com/coreRulebook/magicItems/magicItemCreation.html):
This one does give a discount for more abilities for the less valuable (since I assume they mean less costly/expensive), but it only applies to slotless items. I can't find any real explanation of what qualifies as similar--does it need to be a bonus to the same stat (e.g. a luck and deflection bonus to AC)?The rules for custom items are intentionally vague, mostly because they're oringally guidelines. Going by the things that are statted up, though, "similar" mostly means either "You won't be using them at the same time" or "they draw on the same limited pool" - so multiple spells on a staff are "similar", the various options of a Cube of Force are "similar", a theoretical widget that let you use take on three different specific forms at will (one as Alter Self to turn into a troglodyte, one via Beast Shape II to turn into a komodo dragon, and one via Dragon Shape I to turn into a Green Dragon) would have each form be "similar", and so on.

[Jay R]

The discount for Staves makes sense because they have one or two limitations:
1. They use the same charges (if they use charges at all), and
2. You can’t use them both at the same time, since each one is a standard action.

I would not allow a discount for abilities that are active together, like a plus to a saving throw and an AC bonus.

[Psyren]

I think they mean this (http://legacy.aonprd.com/coreRulebook/magicItems/magicItemCreation.html):

Oh that? The golden rule for custom items is that above all else, you should price based on the power level of the finished product - see the Sword of True Strike example.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Slotless items are automatically 2x cost.

So the 'multiple similar abilities' guideline means your most expensive ability is at 2x cost overall (1x2), your second most expensive ability is at 1.5x cost overall (0.75x2), and any other similar abilities on that same item are at normal cost (0.5x2), unless the item was already slotless.


For example, let's say a high level spellcaster wants to combine the following items with similar abilities (improving spellcasting):
Metamagic Rod of Chaining, Greater, 243,000 gp, slotless
Metamagic Rod of Quicken, Standard, 75,500 gp, slotless
Pearl of Power 6th, 36,000 gp, slotless
Orange Prism Ioun Stone, 30,000 gp, slotless
Ring of Arcane Might, 20,000 gp, ring
Circlet of Rapid Casting, 15,000 gp, head
Metamagic Rod of Extend, Standard, 11,000 gp, slotless
Ring of Enduring Arcana, 6,000 gp, ring
Hellcat Gauntlets, 3,200 gp, hands
Total for those items normally: 439,700 gp, ring, ring, head, hands slots.

The first thing you do is double the cost of the slotted items, because the end result will be a single slotless item.

Metamagic Rod of Chaining, Greater, 243,000 gp, x1 most expensive ability = 243,000 gp
Metamagic Rod of Quicken, Standard, 75,500 gp, x0.75 second most expensive ability = 56,625 gp
Ring of Arcane Might, 20,000 gp, x2 slotless, x0.5 = 20,000 gp
Pearl of Power 6th, 36,000 gp, x0.5 = 18,000 gp
Orange Prism Ioun Stone, 30,000 gp, x0.5 = 15,000 gp
Circlet of Rapid Casting, 15,000 gp, x2 slotless, x0.5 = 15,000 gp
Metamagic Rod of Extend, Standard, 11,000 gp, x0.5 = 5,500 gp
Ring of Enduring Arcana, 6,000 gp, x2 slotless, x0.5 = 6,000 gp
Hellcat Gauntlets, 3,200 gp, x2 slotless, x0.5 = 3,200 gp
Total for that single, slotless item: 382,325 gp

The only effects that are cheaper than normal are the items that were already slotless to begin with. The only reason there's an overall discount is because the two most expensive effects were already slotless to begin with. Technically this item must be held to be of any benefit.

A DM would have every right to say that this item has a single pool of daily uses limited to 3/day for the rods, pearl, circlet, and gauntlet effects, since none of those individually is usable more than 3/day, and that's how staffs work with their charges.

Every additional similar slotted item you add to it is at normal cost, provided twice its normal cost is less than or equal to the second most expensive effect, but that item no longer occupies an item slot.

Every additional similar slotless item you add to it is at half cost, provided its normal cost is less than or equal to the second most expensive effect.