Simulacrum: let's talk about it

[Dmdork]

I'm 13th level. I take the time and gold to cast this spell, clearly a downtime kinda thing. Now there's another me, with a whole other evocation spell bank. The other me is also lucky, alert, etc. The other me can be dispelled.

Do I have this right?

[Sigreid]

Yes, but half hitpoints and cannot regain a spell slot.

[DrKerosene]

Yes, but half hitpoints and cannot regain a spell slot.

Also naked. You’ll need to provide gear. So, spare attunement items might be worth keeping for this.

It you can replace your Simulacrum with any predictable regularity, it’s a reasonably priced bank of spare spells.

[noob]

Or if you have the funds you can possibly pay someone of a high level to get the permission to make a simulacrum of that individual and then adventure with a higher level individual simulacrum that will not betray you while you are in a dungeon.
Or make a simulacrum of a team mate using a class that does not use spell slots since nothing says the simulacrum does not regains the other resources.
A simulacrum is never said to not regenerate hit points: they only provide an alternative way to repair them so as far as I know it could be just copy pasted text from previous editions where you could make simulacrums of mostly everything including creatures that did not heal naturally.

[Man_Over_Game]

Or if you have the funds you can possibly pay someone of a high level to get the permission to make a simulacrum of that individual and then adventure with a higher level individual simulacrum that will not betray you while you are in a dungeon.
Or make a simulacrum of a team mate using a class that does not use spell slots since nothing says the simulacrum does not regains the other resources.
A simulacrum is never said to not regenerate hit points: they only provide an alternative way to repair them so as far as I know it could be just copy pasted text from previous editions where you could make simulacrums of mostly everything including creatures that did not heal naturally.

There was a good RPG Stack Exchange question on this:

Can the creature created by a Simulacrum spell be affected by healing magic? (https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/59781/can-the-creature-created-by-a-simulacrum-spell-be-affected-by-healing-magic)
Answers:
3 Votes: No, you can only "Repair" the creature, because it states "If the simulacrum is damaged, you can repair it..."
6 Votes: A quote from the Lead Designer states that Simulacrum can only heal by the Repair method.
8 Votes: Simulacrum is a constructed illusion made of snow, it makes sense that it doesn't heal like a normal creature does.
4 Votes: It's a creature, so it should technically be able to heal, if only because healing isn't explicitly ruled out.

Most people are on the belief that Simulacrum cannot be healed, except by the alchemical repair method.

[Snowbluff]

Well, I would lean on the designer's view, consensus is no accuracy.

After, the creature is an illusion. The damage dealt to it would be similarly illusory. :smallconfused::smalltongue:

[Man_Over_Game]

Well, I would lean on the designer's view, consensus is no accuracy.

After, the creature is an illusion. The damage dealt to it would be similarly illusory. :smallconfused::smalltongue:

Illusions can be physical. Mirage Arcane, for instance, can create a building that you can jump off of, into a patch of ground where a lake used to be.

[Snowbluff]

Illusions can be physical. Mirage Arcane, for instance, can create a building that you can jump off of, into a patch of ground where a lake used to be.

Yes but if you patched an illusory bridge, wouldn't it get that patch? It stands to reason an illusion mimicking a real creature would respond to receiving healing by regaining HP.

Also, what happens if a simulacrum gets pregnant. Do you get a 1/2 simulacrum baby? Does a simulacrum have different dietary and circadian needs compared to a real person, or do they pretend to eat and just stay up all night like robots? Where does their food go if they don't need to eat it? :smallconfused:

[dragoeniex]

Yes but if you patched an illusory bridge, wouldn't it get that patch? It stands to reason an illusion mimicking a real creature would respond to receiving healing by regaining HP.

Also, what happens if a simulacrum gets pregnant. Do you get a 1/2 simulacrum baby? Does a simulacrum have different dietary and circadian needs compared to a real person, or do they pretend to eat and just stay up all night like robots? Where does their food go if they don't need to eat it? :smallconfused:

It's a fantasy realm with fantasy rules. You can make almost any ruling "stand to reason" by working backward from the desired outcome, so "it makes sense" shouldn't be an automatic debate-ender. It also stands to reason an animated snowman (now a construct- not illusion- as per errata) can't receive your magic life transfusions for living people. It also also stands to reason that you should heal your illusion-made friend by casting illusions of healing spells instead of real ones. wide shrug Doesn't mean I think that should fly. I'd rather reverse the approach here and figure out what's fair or acceptable by DM/group, then flavor the ruling from there.

As for the second part, that's going to be DM and story-dependent on whether it's even possible. My take on Simulacrums is they're essentially fantasy snow AIs, and the inability to learn anything new/lack of general free will is going to make a pregnancy thread rather squicky.

I'd say they stay up and stare quietly at their creator until said creator tells them to stop being creepy and at least lie down already, gosh darn it. Cut to the Simulacrum lying on top of a blanket, staring blank-faced at the ceiling for hours. Possibly just sentient enough to be vaguely bored.

Eating not required. It's made of snow, so at most maybe it just needs to drink some water to freeze and strengthen various parts.

Now, these are all my personal interpretations, and I love myself some AI character studies and/or background gags. You can also go "It stands in the broom closet and we all forget it exists until the next time I take it out to cast Teleportation." Or, heck, give it a subplot about making a deal with a devil to gain a soul instead of selling one. It's as important or irrelevant as your group makes it.

[Man_Over_Game]

Yes but if you patched an illusory bridge, wouldn't it get that patch? It stands to reason an illusion mimicking a real creature would respond to receiving healing by regaining HP.

Also, what happens if a simulacrum gets pregnant. Do you get a 1/2 simulacrum baby? Does a simulacrum have different dietary and circadian needs compared to a real person, or do they pretend to eat and just stay up all night like robots? Where does their food go if they don't need to eat it? :smallconfused:

What you're describing is akin to healing Undead, and there are *very* few ways of doing that. Using the undead example, Healing magic doesn't work, and neither does just trying to superglue on some limbs.

On top of that, the Simulacrum is both alive and not, being MORE complicated than healing an undead. I completely understand why something that is complex enough to require a high level spell, is capable of acting on its own, has its own magic, and isn't fully alive would require a special method for maintenance.

[Clistenes]

I would say natural healing doesn't work, but magical healing works fine...

I find the limits of the Simulacrum spell frustrating... Why does it not work on non-humanoids? If they being too powerful is an issue, they could put some kind of CR cap when duplicating non-humanoids...

Also, there should be a way to duplicate several less powerful beings rather than a single very powerful creature. That way you could keep a handful of low level spies and servants.

Or they could make it so that you could create more expensive, less powerful Simulacrums but who won't disappear when you create a new one...

[Sigreid]

I would say natural healing doesn't work, but magical healing works fine...

I find the limits of the Simulacrum spell frustrating... Why does it not work on non-humanoids? If they being too powerful is an issue, they could put some kind of CR cap when duplicating non-humanoids...

Also, there should be a way to duplicate several less powerful beings rather than a single very powerful creature. That way you could keep a handful of low level spies and servants.

Or they could make it so that you could create more expensive, less powerful Simulacrums but who won't disappear when you create a new one...

If I recall correctly, there's a 9th level spell in Storm King's Thunder that let's you make multiple copies of an individual.

[Clistenes]

If I recall correctly, there's a 9th level spell in Storm King's Thunder that let's you make multiple copies of an individual.

I doubt many DMs would allow Sansuri's Simulacrum... it allows to create a small army of of PC duplicates... I mean, with enough money, you could create 100 copies of yourself and curbstomp anything (the text of the spell doesn't mention any limit to the number of new duplicates, so long as they are all copies of the same creature...).

I was thinking of a less combat oriented and more utility-oriented version... like, a Wizard creates a web of spies and informants by replacing weak but well-positioned people with Simulacra, or he could staff his lab and mansion with (weak) servants and assistants created by himself... Or he could keep Simulacra of strange (but weak) monsters as pets and companions (a Quadrone butler, a Dryad mistress, a Griffon mount, a Blink Dog pet dog...etc.).

You see, something that gives flavor and shows how he has lots of magic, rather than something that allows him to crush Great Wyrms...