Mythic Tristalt Build help(Pathfinder)

[Needhelpplz]

A brief summery for those who don't know, I'm in a mythic tristalt game... and my gm has been having problems with my characters combat abilities so I'm trying something different. I'm on my third character because of DM issues.

please don't turn this into a DM is an jerk thing, I don't really want to talk about that. I just want advice on the build and if it's functional, and also importantly not crazy OP in combat.


Was thinking of trying something more social, and while the character does have combat abilities it shouldn't be anything particularly absurd. Or? Is it... I don't think I'm going to be doing explosive damage. The DM said he was fine with the concept even if there was no spellcasting... but he'd have to see it in play. Essentially mostly a social fu character with a few combat traits. Also if anyone has any suggestions/what have you please give them to me. I am totally out of my element.

I know I'll have to pick skills and stuff.

Name: Samantha/ White Lily

Gender: Female

Alignment: NG/CG

Race: Human

Class: UC Rogue (Phantom Thief) 13/Vigalante(Splintered soul) 13/Paladin 13 (virtous bravo)

Mythic: 5


STR: base 11

DEX: base 16 + 2 mythic=18

CON: Base 14

INT: Base 16

WIS: base 12

CHA: base 18 +2 race +2 mythic +2 mythic path +2 +3 level= 27


Fortitude 8 +2 +8

Reflex 8 +4 +8

Will 8 +1 +8


init

Move

Race
Human
Focused study +2
1) Intimidate
8) Stealth
Skilled
+2 Charisma


Class skills
Vig
Splintered identity
seamless guise
Social talent
1) Renown
3) sudden change
5) Skill familiarity
sf1) Bluff
sf2) Intimidate
sf3) Stealth
sf4) Disquise
7) sudden change
9) Great renown
11) Incredible renown
13) Social grace
sg1) Intimidate
sg5) Disquise
sg10) diplomacy

Vigalante spec (Stalker)
Vigalante talent
vt2) Armor skin
vt4) Cunning feint
vt6) Harsh Judgement
vt8) expose weakness
vt10) twisting fear
vt12) Strike the unseen
Unshakable
Surpising change
startling appearance
Frightening appearance

Rogue(Phantom Thief)
Refined education +6
re3) Intimidation
re5) bluff
re7) Diplomacy
re9) Stealth
re11) sense motive
re13) Disquise
Broad education (Rogue Talents)
be2) surprise attack
be4) Stand Up
be6) weapon training rapier
be8) Mein of Despair
be10)Slippery mind
be12)skill master intimidation,stealth, bluff
Social sense
Finesse training
ft1) rapier
ft2) Dagger
Uncanny dodge
Improved Uncanny dodge

Paladin
Aura of good
detect evil
bravos evil 5/day
Divine grace
aura of courage
Nimble +3
Panache and deeds
Dodging panache
menacing swordplay
oppurtune parry and riposte
precise strike
swashbuckler initiative
bleeding wounds
evasive
subtle blade
superior feint
swashbucklers grace
targeted strike
Divine health
Channel positive energy
Angelic bond
Aura of resolve


Mythic 5
trickster
Surprise strike
1) Display of Charisma
2) Persuasive countenance
3) Menacing whisper
4) Ultimate Versatility
5) Enhanced ability (Charisma)

Feats
1) Persuasive
Human 1) Intimidate focus
3) Quick Draw
6) Improved critical
Human 8) stealth focus
9) Dazzling strike
12) Hellcat stealth

Mythic feats
Mythic Skill focus (Intimidate)
Mythic Dazzling strikee

[grarrrg]

A brief summery for those who don't know, I'm in a mythic tristalt game...
I just want advice on the build and if it's functional, and also importantly not crazy OP in combat

I think I'm beginning to see your problem.

MYTHIC TRIstalt
Character "too strong"

If this is a solo PC game, then I don't know how being good in combat can be a problem.
If there are other players, how are they NOT good in combat with MYTHIC TRISTALT???

[Needhelpplz]

I think I'm beginning to see your problem.

MYTHIC TRIstalt
Character "too strong"

If this is a solo PC game, then I don't know how being good in combat can be a problem.
If there are other players, how are they NOT good in combat with MYTHIC TRISTALT???

We have other players 3 actually, but they're all spell casters... and for some reason, my character dealing all the damage to single targets has been problematic twice. Mostly, I'm not going to lie, the rest of my party aren't at all optimizing and I think my DM has really bitten off far more than they can chew.

I love the group, we play together weekly. I admittedly hate this campaign though, but, you know we've been playing together for years. I think he got freaked out by absurd damage options, so, now I'm trying to go full skill monkey with some abilities to hit with stick.

Everyone else seems to be having a blast playing big kabloom kaplow types... so, ya know? And I'm trying to play well with my DM.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

If the rest of your party is all spellcasters and using their spells to deal damage, then why don't you build something that doesn't deal damage? Let them do their thing, don't make a character whose primary role is dealing damage because you're just going to one-up them and make them feel useless. That's the problem, and that's why you need to rethink what you're playing so everyone else can continue enjoying the game.

Go with some kind of Sorcerer/Oracle/Paladin and use your spells to crowd control the opponents, buff your party, and solve non-combat problems. Or maybe go with a Sorcerer (Accursed)/Antipaladin (Tyrant)/Dread (or skip Antipaladin and cast Draconic Malice when needed). Go with a build that's good at something besides dealing damage, but can still deal damage comparable to the rest of the party in case it's needed.

[Calthropstu]

Take a spellcaster and show them how their characters SHOULD be played.

Summoner/Oracle/Sorcerer with the dual path abilities getting archmage and hierophant. Take both summoning related path powers (Speedy summons and mighty summons)

Add the feats augment summoning, superior summons and any other summoning feats you might like. Now spam summon monster using your spells to get monsters from the next lower tier to get 1d3+2 monsters. Expend a mythic point to do it twice in a round.
Your tristalt means you never run out of spell slots.
You will overwhelm any encounter with sheer numbers.

[exelsisxax]

We have other players 3 actually, but they're all spell casters... and for some reason, my character dealing all the damage to single targets has been problematic twice. Mostly, I'm not going to lie, the rest of my party aren't at all optimizing and I think my DM has really bitten off far more than they can chew.

I love the group, we play together weekly. I admittedly hate this campaign though, but, you know we've been playing together for years. I think he got freaked out by absurd damage options, so, now I'm trying to go full skill monkey with some abilities to hit with stick.

Everyone else seems to be having a blast playing big kabloom kaplow types... so, ya know? And I'm trying to play well with my DM.

I saw your reddit post and this isn't going to solve the real problem.

Your DM is fundamentally incapable of managing this game. It doesn't matter what you build, you could break his campaign in half with an expert//adept//warrior, because it is an infinitely brittle sheet. From your descriptions, you are the only person in the group that actually understands how the game works. You cannot fix this by building to the table, because the table isn't actually playing with the chargen rules properly. They're playing pathfinder with triple spell slots and 45 point buy(vomits on lap). Looking at your builds, you seem to get the game and actually understand how to build characters. I don't think you can play to their level. I think that if I gave you a list of 3 random classes with a random attribute array, you'd still blow them out of the water on accident - because you're actually taking advantage of MYTHIC GODDAMN TRISTALT.

Stop playing. Your DM cannot be played with under these circumstances, and it's not your fault. No gaming is better than bad gaming.

[Needhelpplz]

Take a spellcaster and show them how their characters SHOULD be played.

Summoner/Oracle/Sorcerer with the dual path abilities getting archmage and hierophant. Take both summoning related path powers (Speedy summons and mighty summons)

Add the feats augment summoning, superior summons and any other summoning feats you might like. Now spam summon monster using your spells to get monsters from the next lower tier to get 1d3+2 monsters. Expend a mythic point to do it twice in a round.
Your tristalt means you never run out of spell slots.
You will overwhelm any encounter with sheer numbers.

You see, that's where things get sticky. I dislike spellcasters, I find them... well boring. I know when it comes down to it, they are the end all be all of character progression. Yet, in reality... I despise playing them. The more numbers, the more management, the more just complications the more I start to tune out.

Truth be told I'm a barbarian player first and foremost, and well, I'm trying to work with an DM to make something that wasn't disrupstive to his ideas.

[Calthropstu]

You see, that's where things get sticky. I dislike spellcasters, I find them... well boring. I know when it comes down to it, they are the end all be all of character progression. Yet, in reality... I despise playing them. The more numbers, the more management, the more just complications the more I start to tune out.

Truth be told I'm a barbarian player first and foremost, and well, I'm trying to work with an DM to make something that wasn't disrupstive to his ideas.

In that case, ask the gm if DSP material is allowable. Go fighter/soulknife/aegis. You make your own armor and weapon, changing it on the fly, get the fighter chasis and pretty much tank anything and everything. You hold the enemy back while your party members blast them to smithereens over your head.

[Needhelpplz]

I saw your reddit post and this isn't going to solve the real problem.

Your DM is fundamentally incapable of managing this game. It doesn't matter what you build, you could break his campaign in half with an expert//adept//warrior, because it is an infinitely brittle sheet. From your descriptions, you are the only person in the group that actually understands how the game works. You cannot fix this by building to the table, because the table isn't actually playing with the chargen rules properly. They're playing pathfinder with triple spell slots and 45 point buy(vomits on lap). Looking at your builds, you seem to get the game and actually understand how to build characters. I don't think you can play to their level. I think that if I gave you a list of 3 random classes with a random attribute array, you'd still blow them out of the water on accident - because you're actually taking advantage of MYTHIC GODDAMN TRISTALT.

Stop playing. Your DM cannot be played with under these circumstances, and it's not your fault. No gaming is better than bad gaming.

It's not just gaming though, it's the group... and I've never had problems with this DM before and it's been years. He can't handle this though, and I'm the one that seems to suffer because of it. This is actually depressing me, because it's something I look forward too. But, it almost feels like I'll just have to end up making a new character every week now. I almost want to tell him just throw me together a class combination and choose all the things...

because I get kind of inspired when I see cool things, and start working a character around that... but, I'm kind of afraid that whatever I do now is going to be a garbage fire that messes with him.

I gotta admit, I love this character build. It seems like such a fun weird bombastic thing to play. I'm not even talking about abilities so much as like just the roleplaying potential seems heavenly.

[Coventry]

Play a character that is not mythic tristalt. Give up one or the other (or both).

I was also going to suggest playing a support character, like a Medium/Skald gestalt, but I wonder if you will still overshadow the others with that configuration.

[Jack_Simth]

They're all playing blaster casters?

OK. Get Arcane Concordance on your spell list. Cast it a lot. Also get Blessings of Fervor. Both boost other casters. Pick up some battlefield control (Synthesist Summoner with a reach, trip weapon and Combat Reflexes), then have some at will shapeshifting so you can easily squeeze into normal spaces (kitsune race, say). Oh yes, and those weapon storing gloves, so you have your weapon of choice for whatever size you are.

Your turn is up? Cast a caster buff.
Enemy tries to close? Trip.

[Selion]

I'm not suggesting you to leave the group, your DM may have trouble in balancing this game, but may otherwise be good on storytelling, it's really up to you, if you want a rule heavy game focused in technical battles then you should probably drop it, if conversely you are fine with rules bending on the spot take from this game the positive sides.
BTW, i simply don't understand why your DM dived into this tristalt mythic thing, why not just gestalt, which is already prone to break the game. Mythic and gestalt game should be tuned down with restricted selections and home rules anyway IMHO, seriously, a wizard with mythic magic missile is enough to trivialize almost every encounter if built properly, that's why i don't like full bans on entire classes.
I think you should just talk, show your character design and build it together with your DM. Some options would be banned, some would be retrained, some would be nerfed, but in the end you'll have a character which won't rollstomp the game the DM has designed, keeping the flavor of your build, if done properly.
I'm still baffled about the builds of your comrades, with a tristalt mythic spellcaster it is extremely easy to become overpowered even accidentally.

[Needhelpplz]

I'm not suggesting you to leave the group, your DM may have trouble in balancing this game, but may otherwise be good on storytelling, it's really up to you, if you want a rule heavy game focused in technical battles then you should probably drop it, if conversely you are fine with rules bending on the spot take from this game the positive sides.
BTW, i simply don't understand why your DM dived into this tristalt mythic thing, why not just gestalt, which is already prone to break the game. Mythic and gestalt game should be tuned down with restricted selections and home rules anyway IMHO, seriously, a wizard with mythic magic missile is enough to trivialize almost every encounter if built properly, that's why i don't like full bans on entire classes.
I think you should just talk, show your character design and build it together with your DM. Some options would be banned, some would be retrained, some would be nerfed, but in the end you'll have a character which won't rollstomp the game the DM has designed, keeping the flavor of your build, if done properly.
I'm still baffled about the builds of your comrades, with a tristalt mythic spellcaster it is extremely easy to become overpowered even accidentally.

I think I may just be sitting this campaign out, sent the DM the build and he was all EH.... this might not work so well. This is getting just stupidly frustrating... about my only hope now is make some sort of caster, which just bothers me. I'm starting to just feel signalled out... it's like the play style I've been using for forever has become a big fat NO. I'm feeling kind of defeated and feel like I'm doing something terribly wrong... kind of depressed because this is going to be a big cut off on my interaction with a few of my friends. This has turned into more of a frustration though than anything else, DM will likely get aggrivated with me... but, I think I'm just going to have to say "I hate this rule set, I hate that I can't play the characters I like, so... I think I just have to give up."

[geekintheground]

I think I may just be sitting this campaign out, sent the DM the build and he was all EH.... this might not work so well. This is getting just stupidly frustrating... about my only hope now is make some sort of caster, which just bothers me. I'm starting to just feel signalled out... it's like the play style I've been using for forever has become a big fat NO. I'm feeling kind of defeated and feel like I'm doing something terribly wrong... kind of depressed because this is going to be a big cut off on my interaction with a few of my friends. This has turned into more of a frustration though than anything else, DM will likely get aggrivated with me... but, I think I'm just going to have to say "I hate this rule set, I hate that I can't play the characters I like, so... I think I just have to give up."

i've been there, with the people who introduced me to D&D. its really rough. but if these guys are your friends, they should understand your struggles and see your efforts.

and, just because i have to say it (although its been said plenty): i thought the whole point of "MYTHIC TRISTALT" was big numbers?

since you've been with these guys for years, im guessing you've already talked to them about your different styles and offered to help them build their characters so theyre more effective?

if, however, you wanted to try to find a way to keep playing without dealing too much damage, might i suggest: warder//blacksmith//armiger and just become the most stable unkillable frontliner this side of sigil. warder will help you tank up, focus on iron tortoise, golden lion, and whatever utility you can get. blacksmith will give you something to do by sundering their stuff, remember we dont want to kill things faster than the rest of the party, and then after the fight you can fix it all to negate the typical drawback of sundering. armiger is a placeholder, feel free to change to taste, thought it could help get some extra talents and stuff to get more things and maybe you always have your handy dandy 2H weapon for if(/when) isht gets real and you NEED to deal the damage for the party.

however you decide to handle this, i hope it all works out


edit: what exactly did your DM hesitate about? im not totally versed in mythic (or all the pathfinder classes) so maybe im missing something, but this doesnt look like anything close to a combat build...

[Needhelpplz]

i've been there, with the people who introduced me to D&D. its really rough. but if these guys are your friends, they should understand your struggles and see your efforts.

and, just because i have to say it (although its been said plenty): i thought the whole point of "MYTHIC TRISTALT" was big numbers?

since you've been with these guys for years, im guessing you've already talked to them about your different styles and offered to help them build their characters so theyre more effective?

if, however, you wanted to try to find a way to keep playing without dealing too much damage, might i suggest: warder//blacksmith//armiger and just become the most stable unkillable frontliner this side of sigil. warder will help you tank up, focus on iron tortoise, golden lion, and whatever utility you can get. blacksmith will give you something to do by sundering their stuff, remember we dont want to kill things faster than the rest of the party, and then after the fight you can fix it all to negate the typical drawback of sundering. armiger is a placeholder, feel free to change to taste, thought it could help get some extra talents and stuff to get more things and maybe you always have your handy dandy 2H weapon for if(/when) isht gets real and you NEED to deal the damage for the party.

however you decide to handle this, i hope it all works out


edit: what exactly did your DM hesitate about? im not totally versed in mythic (or all the pathfinder classes) so maybe im missing something, but this doesnt look like anything close to a combat build...

Mostly because my character could get around +40 on intimidate checks, also most social skills and stealth and disquise were absurd as well, and use it to inspire every fear effect in the game. This time my skill bonuses were far to high... it's not even something I had really planned on doing in every combat... more like when they were going full bat girl.

Also he said the saves were a bit to high.

admittedly I can sort of understand the issue, but, I'm not even sure how to make a mythic character with three classes that doesn't do something awesome.

I admit, I Know next to nothing about spheres of might and I'm pretty sure my DM doesn't either.

[geekintheground]

Mostly because my character could get around +40 on intimidate checks, also most social skills and stealth and disquise were absurd as well, and use it to inspire every fear effect in the game. This time my skill bonuses were far to high... it's not even something I had really planned on doing in every combat... more like when they were going full bat girl.

Also he said the saves were a bit to high.

admittedly I can sort of understand the issue, but, I'm not even sure how to make a mythic character with three classes that doesn't do something awesome.

I admit, I Know next to nothing about spheres of might and I'm pretty sure my DM doesn't either.

yeah, my group once went gestalt epic in 3.5... DM had to home brew a template that if you didnt hit with a specific source of damage (arcane, divine, martial, or psionic) the thing would instead get temp HP, hit you back for how much damage you would have done, and would get buffs based on how many temps it had. we werent really optimized or anything, thats just the nature of the system once you can do enough.

that youre unfamiliar with it just makes me recommend it more. you know as much about this new system as the rest of the party knows about the base system, so it should help keep you in line. (also its pretty fun, and i just started looking into it for similar reasons and am still on the hype train so my brain sees answers to all problems as "spheres!" xD)

[Needhelpplz]

yeah, my group once went gestalt epic in 3.5... DM had to home brew a template that if you didnt hit with a specific source of damage (arcane, divine, martial, or psionic) the thing would instead get temp HP, hit you back for how much damage you would have done, and would get buffs based on how many temps it had. we werent really optimized or anything, thats just the nature of the system once you can do enough.

that youre unfamiliar with it just makes me recommend it more. you know as much about this new system as the rest of the party knows about the base system, so it should help keep you in line. (also its pretty fun, and i just started looking into it for similar reasons and am still on the hype train so my brain sees answers to all problems as "spheres!" xD)

I'll call the DM, see if he's okay with using spheres of might than. If I could just be a tanky tank, and not taking away from people's funtime I'm so okay with this. I think being really hard to kill would be far more appealing to him than just being some sort of combat monster.

[grarrrg]

I could just be a tanky tank.

Hmm.... What would be a good third class to throw on an Oradin?

[exelsisxax]

I'll call the DM, see if he's okay with using spheres of might than. If I could just be a tanky tank, and not taking away from people's funtime I'm so okay with this. I think being really hard to kill would be far more appealing to him than just being some sort of combat monster.

Warder//armiger alone is an absolute combat monster. If you picked your maneuvers and spheres at random you can still expect to slaughter everything with ease unless you also choose everything else randomly and don't make any intelligent choices. You don't need the third class to butcher everything your DM throws at you.

You admitted you hate playing this game. The DM doesn't let you play what you want. What point is there in bashing your head against this wall? You don't have to not be friends because you stopped playing a game you weren't enjoying.

[Peat]

Maybe try asking him to design a character around the general idea that he'd be comfortable with?

[Needhelpplz]

Warder//armiger alone is an absolute combat monster. If you picked your maneuvers and spheres at random you can still expect to slaughter everything with ease unless you also choose everything else randomly and don't make any intelligent choices. You don't need the third class to butcher everything your DM throws at you.

You admitted you hate playing this game. The DM doesn't let you play what you want. What point is there in bashing your head against this wall? You don't have to not be friends because you stopped playing a game you weren't enjoying.

You can say that, but, it's not entirely true. Most of them have families and stuff going on, and the schedule of the game is set up so everyone can play. It's hard to actually get involved with people who have to juggle kids and work.

[exelsisxax]

You can say that, but, it's not entirely true. Most of them have families and stuff going on, and the schedule of the game is set up so everyone can play. It's hard to actually get involved with people who have to juggle kids and work.

Except you, because no character you make is acceptable to the DM.

[Needhelpplz]

Except you, because no character you make is acceptable to the DM.

You're picking out the entirely wrong things here.

[ericgrau]

In low op both mages and fighters can make big booms if you just hit stuff. Especially at level 13. It's hard to hit stuff lighter with either. At best you might tie your allies unless you intentionally gimp yourself. I'd go skillmonkey and/or support. Probably both since, heck, this is tristalt. You can and should also hold back to the play level of your allies, but this way even if you accidentally make yourself too strong or too weak it will still be helpful and yet also not step on any toes.

My memory of Pathfinder Mythic is weak so I'll stick to general ideas.

Skillmonkey examples: trapfinding, track, knowledges, scouting. For scouting at level 13 consider a wand of invisibility or some such, and possibly a way to flee (speed, teleportation, etc.) in case of true seeing. Freedom of movement ideally if the method requires your hands. Along with enough HP to take a hit and not straying more than a round away from your allies. A shadowdancer shadow can also scout and weaken most non-caster foes before the fight begins while being invulnerable to them.
Support examples: Hour per level buffs are nice for all your allies, along with multiple lesser rods of extend spell to help keep them up 24 hours a day. And pearls of power for level 1 buffs, if needed. 10 min/level are nice for dungeon entrances too. If you get a lot of dungeons or you're a prepared caster who can swap them out. Mass buffs are great even during combat, and IIRC Pathfinder added a lot of those. Pathfinder also added Gallant Inspiration, which is amazing not only as a spell known but also spamming from a huge number of scrolls. Whether you're a bard or if you just UMD it. Battlefield control in the form of walls and other barriers or impediments also makes great support, but your party may also see it as outshining them. Especially if you use debuffs or more direct disables instead of walls. Bardic music is great too. I'd avoid over-optimizing it though, if at all. You can also become an item crafter. And while you should make some items for yourself, focus more on what your party needs. Some survivability might be good to be effective without standing out too much. HP, saves, etc. If nothing else it will help you stand in front of the mages and survive scouting. But fling support spells and skills rather than a sword or a fireball. Low cost fix it items are nice too, like scrolls of remove X. Or actually preparing a handful of versatile ones like greater restoration and heal. While removing afflictions is great, try not to be a heal-bot though, cuz that's boring.


If you enjoy hitting stuff with a weapon you might try a tripper/grappler/maybe disarmer as your active part. Pathfinder added a little more to the monk for this. The ceiling on core feats also went up, monk or not, even though taking just 1 feat and not capping it out is weaker than 3.5. Changes to size modifiers helped too. Focusing on that will also reduce your damage output while providing some support that isn't too heavy handed. Without a spiked chain. The time when that was talked of as high optimization online may be 10+ years past, but it might still apply to your group.

In general try not to do anything your fellow players don't know how to do (or couldn't at least figure out easily), even when building a supporting character. And in any tristalt it's often good to have 1 or maybe 2 active classes and 2 or maybe 1 passive classes. Passive classes might bolster your defenses or provide between combat abilities like skills, buffs and crafting. Your active class gives you something you can actually do during a fight. A class can do both, but point is you usually shouldn't be picking between the active actions of two different classes. Or the 2nd class could have done something passive instead and then you could have both instead of choosing. Yeah this is optimizing a little but it's related to support, which is often passive. For that matter at level 13 you might only have "half" an active class, with just enough to give you something to do in combat while loading up on support even with your active class.

@ everyone complaining about his DM: (a) He specifically said not to do this. (b) You can still have fun without the DM catering to your every desire. Plus it's hard to find a great DM, especially among friends. The DM has to do almost all the work while everyone else has all the fun. I get that if the situation is really bad you should switch groups, DM yourself, or quit D&D entirely. But this doesn't seem to be the case here. And you always try a less extreme solution first whether it's a little bad or a lot bad. @ O.P., If the DM is asking you to do anything beyond toning down your character's power to match others and you don't like it, you can always discuss it with him even if you don't intend to leave the group.