My EK: Xanathar's or SCAG for my +1

[Dalebert]

My roommate insists that EK needs to take SCAG for Booming Blade to go with lvl 7 war magic: to bonus action attack after casting a cantrip. It's essentially still getting two attacks plus BB dmg. I get that. But it doesn't age well. Once you have three attacks it doesn't seem worth it. Meanwhile, Absorb Elements does age really well. Also Shadow Blade seems really nice for an EK. Toll the Dead or Campfire seem like reasonable combos with Eldritch Strike.

Does giving all that up for Booming Blade make sense?

[Darc_Vader]

I’d say it’s worth giving up BB for all the spells Xanathar’s gives. It’s at it’s strongest between 7 and 10, and is good at pretty much all levels if you have Warcaster, but Xanathar’s just gives too many options to pass up.

[Dalebert]

I’d say it’s worth giving up BB for all the spells Xanathar’s gives. It’s at it’s strongest between 7 and 10, and is good at pretty much all levels if you have Warcaster, but Xanathar’s just gives too many options to pass up.

I'll definitely have warcaster early on so BB will still be good for OAs. Something to consider. That said, a save-based spell like Toll the Dead could be good (but prolly not as) due to Eldritch Strike and frequent disadvantage.

I just realized Create Bonfire is not eligible viable with the OA spell from Warcaster since it's not actually cast at a creature. Sad. Back to Toll the Dead then.

[Corran]

My roommate insists that EK needs to take SCAG for Booming Blade to go with lvl 7 war magic: to bonus action attack after casting a cantrip. It's essentially still getting two attacks plus BB dmg. I get that. But it doesn't age well. Once you have three attacks it doesn't seem worth it. Meanwhile, Absorb Elements does age really well. Also Shadow Blade seems really nice for an EK. Toll the Dead or Campfire seem like reasonable combos with Eldritch Strike.

Does giving all that up for Booming Blade make sense?
Tough call.
GFB will stay very competitive with extra attacks. With warmagic in play, it does about the same damage as 3 attacks (I am assuming a longsword), and then you have the bonus damage from its secondary effect if you can trigger it as a bonus. And BB for opportunity attacks is sweet.

On the other hand, I do like absorb elements a lot. I don't care much about TtD and create bonfire (if that was what you meant), cause you already have access to other ranged options that are just as good, but I see how shadow blade would work nicely with lots attacks and with action surge.

Between just absorb elements and the scag cantrips, with a heavy heart, I would probably prefer just the cantrips. If we throw shadow blade on the scale, I am tempted to say Xanathar's. I guess the easiest way to decide, is to think if you want to rely on shadow blade for your concentration. If you think there are other concentration spells that you find as good or better than shadow blade, then go with the scag cantrips. If you really prefer shadow blade to alternative concentation options, then obviously go with Xanathar's. At least that's how I would try to come to a decision.

[Dalebert]

I feel like I'd use Shadow Blade in many cases, like when we aren't in bright light for the constant advantage, or just when I don't have third level slots for Haste. With Haste and War Magic, I could cantrip and also attack twice.

2d8 psychic with advantage on every attack is pretty awesome for a 2nd level slot, especially as you start to get more attacks.

[MaxWilson]

At mid-levels: Booming Blade/Greenflame Blade gives an archer a good backup melee option, and makes you stickier through better opportunity attacks (assuming Warcaster). At high levels: Absorb Elements may save your bacon against dragons.

They both compete for your reaction.

Which do you think you're more likely spend your reaction on, opportunity attacks or avoiding getting killed by Tiamat/whatever?

They are both very justifiable choices. Pick one and run with it.

[OracularPoet]

Xanathar’s will give you the option of multiclassing into War Wizard. Just two levels for Arcane Deflection would be great, however much wizard you’d want in the end.

Alternatively, you could go some other wizard school (PHB or SCAG) and copy Absorb Elements from someone else’s spellbook. I understand that that is still AL legal.

[Tanarii]

Are you using a Greatsword with GWM, or Longsword and Shield with War Caster?

If you use a Greatsword with GWM, then War Magic loses some relative value in the DPR department.

With a S&B war caster, it stays pretty competitive. Especially since you're probably thinking in terms of tanking, and Booming Blade is a great comtroler-tank spell. Of course, Posion Spray or Acid Splash do okay too for S&B, especially if your DM allows you to undercut first at level 10+. And Acid Splash gives you an occasional multitarget and/or ranged feature to boot.

[Zhorn]

My initial thought is "why not both", but I'm guessing this is for AL for the PHB+1 limitation?

[Dalebert]

Are you using a Greatsword with GWM, or Longsword and Shield with War Caster?

I failed to mention this is the character I'm building to eventually trade the Spear of Backbiting to. It will become his main weapon, so S&B only the S is for "spear".


My initial thought is "why not both", but I'm guessing this is for AL for the PHB+1 limitation?

I thought that was a given so I didn't mention it. As you can see above, I'm notorious for forgetting key information in a post until someone brings it up.

[Tanarii]

I failed to mention this is the character I'm building to eventually trade the Spear of Backbiting to. It will become his main weapon, so S&B only the S is for "spear".
So for melee attacks, you're definitely better off with War Magic and a cantrip (either PHB or SCAG). For ranger you're probably better off with 3 attacks.

Let's look at a few levels. We'll assume you raise you r primary ability score to 18 by level 8, but not 20 before 12, and have a 16 Int. So say 75% hit chance with your +2 weapon, a 60% with an Int Melee cantrip, a 60% with an Int save cantrip, and a 84% with an undercut save cantrip. Note I'm ignoring crits for sake of argument

Level 8:
14.3 = 2 melee attacks = .75*2*(9.5)
17.6+Eff = BB + melee attack = .75*2*(9.5)+.75*4.5 + immobile or 4.5 more damage
12.5+eff = SG + melee attack = .6*(9)+.75*(9.5) + no reaction
14.9 = PS + melee = .6*(13)+.75*(9.5)
15.5 = AS + melee = .6*2*(7)+.75*(9.5)

Level 11:
21.3 = 3 melee attacks = .75*3*(9.5)
20+Eff = BB + melee attack = .75*2*(9.5)+.75*9 + immobile or 9 more damage
15.2+eff = SG + melee attack = .6*(13.5)+.75*(9.5) + no reaction
23.5 = undercut PS + melee = .84*(19.5)+.75*(9.5)
22.2 = undercut AS (vs 1) + AS + melee = .84*(10.5)+.6*(10.5)+.75*(9.5)

I'm going to skip the thrown for now, because I'm fairly sure the +1d6 damage per hit makes attacks superior to a Firebolt ot Acid Splash.

Also note that three attacks will be a curve leaning toward the average damage, whereas war magic will be more swingy.

Honestly though, despite the benefit of BB for control, with a spear of backbiting I'd probably go Xanathar's as the +1, and take Ray of Frost and Shocking Grasp as situational control spells. They do much less damage (RoF uses the SG lines above but competes with the extra damage) but it's the control effect that counts when you use them. And you're effectively going to be a specialist at short range thrown attacks. So SG to fall back to range, and RoF to slow them down from getting back to you.

Edit: also I didn't include dueling style, so that'll put Extra Attack even further ahead of BB at level 11+. Although if you expect to do a lot of situational control with cantrips like SG & RoF it might be better to just go defense.

[Zhorn]

I thought that was a given so I didn't mention it. As you can see above, I'm notorious for forgetting key information in a post until someone brings it up.Most times it is a given. Though I've met a few player who impose that limit on character creation even in home games because they've played AL for so long.
Personally I think it's a silly restriction, but I'm an "ALL THE THINGS!" style DM, so that's clearly my own bias on the matter.

[Dalebert]

So some things I left out that make the decision a little easier by narrowing things down.

* I'm def going to be a stout halfling
* I'm decided on EK now after consideration. Not ranger.
* I'm def going to be spear-based because this character was inspired as a build to exploit the Spear of Backbiting that I already have on another character specifically for trading. (It's a wild mage sorcerer. He's not gonna use it.)

I'm leaning heavily toward save-based cantrip(s) for my OAs with warcaster to exploit eldritch strike. The winner at the moment seems to be Toll the Dead. Campfire is not eligible because it doesn't target the creature. Acid Splash might be okay. I think you can choose to target just one creature. Warcaster doesn't have the position like twinned that it must only be able to target one; just that it is only targeting one in that instance.


Most times it is a given. Though I've met a few player who impose that limit on character creation even in home games because they've played AL for so long.
Personally I think it's a silly restriction, but I'm an "ALL THE THINGS!" style DM, so that's clearly my own bias on the matter.

It infuriates me often. It seems absurd to me that I can't play the one halfling that has a wisdom bonus unless I give up tons of cool cleric/druid/ranger spells.

That said, I get it the idea of it. It get exponentially harder to playtest everything against every other thing as opposed ot just playtesting each book's content against the PHB. In actual practice though, there remain TONS of broken things you can legally do in AL and the +1 mmostly just seems to be a buzzkill for things that are fun and appropriate and not broken, like a wisdom-bonus halfling being a good cleric/druid/ranger.

[Zanthy1]

Personally I prefer all the options that Xanathar's has and dislike the cantrips from SCAG. Yes I understand that BB and GFB are peek cantrips, but I dislike that it becomes the only viable option, and I get so bored of them. Xanathar's has so much more to it than SCAG, that I cannot in good conscience recommend taking SCAG as your +1.

I will however throw another option at you, Guildmasters Guide to Ravnica. As a +1 it offers some really cool stuff. Guild backgrounds are fantastic and in my mind are all that is needed to make the PHB stellar.

[Dalebert]

I will however throw another option at you, Guildmasters Guide to Ravnica.

Pretty sure that book is allowed only in Ravnica in AL; not in Faerun, which is where the bulk of their games take place.

[sithlordnergal]

I'd say go Xanathar's. There's no longer a reason to take SCAG cantrips unless you use a very specific build, like a Soradin that doesn't have many Bonus Action options.