Highest CHA Race and Playable Fey

[LoyalPaladin]

Good evening!

I've been looking into playable races with crazy charisma modifiers for a while now, but I can never seem to see anything remotely playable. I'm looking for something around roughly +3 LA, and I suppose mixing a race with template(s) would be a reasonable option.

On the same note, I'm looking for a playable noble fey that is reasonable as well. I looked for a race for Titania or any other fey in the Fey Feature Archive (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/arch/fey), but no dice! I'm mostly looking to play a super high CHA nature caster.

Cheers!
LP

[Crake]

Killoren are fey, anything with the half fey template (+2LA) and/or unseelie template is also fey. You could slap on seelie fey onto a killoren as well, for a "noble fey" kind of feeling, though for a titania kind of character (queen of the fey I assume?) I would almost certainly use a custom built, unique creature, much like a demon lord or archdevil, rather than something built through normal character creation rules.

[LoyalPaladin]

Killoren are fey, anything with the half fey template (+2LA) and/or unseelie template is also fey. You could slap on seelie fey onto a killoren as well, for a "noble fey" kind of feeling, though for a titania kind of character (queen of the fey I assume?) I would almost certainly use a custom built, unique creature, much like a demon lord or archdevil, rather than something built through normal character creation rules.
Killoren are awesome. I like their fluff...

I'm not necessarily looking to play Titania, but just a very high CHA fey. Hopefully some form of druid. I was considering a druid with Dynamic Priest haha. I really wish Banshrae were a lower HD or LA. Maybe a Druid/Heartwarder with Dyanmic Priest, actually. My biggest beef with 3.5 is that WotC didn't support fey very well...

[gorfnab]

On the same note, I'm looking for a playable noble fey that is reasonable as well. I looked for a race for Titania or any other fey in the Fey Feature Archive (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/arch/fey), but no dice! I'm mostly looking to play a super high CHA nature caster.

Gloura from Forgotten Realms: Underdark could maybe be kit bashed into a Savage Species style playable monster pc.

[Crake]

Killoren are awesome. I like their fluff...

I'm not necessarily looking to play Titania, but just a very high CHA fey. Hopefully some form of druid. I was considering a druid with Dynamic Priest haha. I really wish Banshrae were a lower HD or LA. Maybe a Druid/Heartwarder with Dyanmic Priest, actually. My biggest beef with 3.5 is that WotC didn't support fey very well...

Ah okay, well, unfortunately charisma in general is quite difficult to pump up with just a little bit of LA. Fey in general seem quite non-player friendly beyond playing a half fey. If you mix half fey and unseelie, you end up at +6 cha for +2 LA, which is decent, but you also get -4 con, which is quite painful. You could mix it in with a +con race, like gnome perhaps to try and alleviate that a bit.

Oh, feytouched are also a good player option, they're basically planetouched (tiefling/aasimar) but for fey, and they come with the very nice benefit of immunity to mind affecting at only +1 LA, and they get +2 cha as a boost, though they also get -2 con. You could potentially stack up feytouched, half fey (can be added to already fey creatures funnily enough), and unseelie fey, which would give you a whopping +6 dex, +2 wis, +8 cha, at the cost of -2 str and -6 con and +3 LA, which would make them a great canidate for faerie mysteries initiate to replace con with int for HP, and finding some way to grab cha to saves will help shore up your fort save.

[Vizzerdrix]

Im afb right now, and a wee bit rust on what I know, but what about petals or pixies?

And if I remember correctly, the spark, unseelie fey, and primordial giant templates all add to cha. I don`t recall if they are stackable however.

Side note: what is your avatar? Some sort of robot? :smallconfused:

[Troacctid]

My Warlockopedia has a section for level-adjusted templates here (https://docs.google.com/document/d/162mLgTiBJ4et4yFkZRoBAZzb0fW8vRaC1gR4YolKGiE/edit#heading=h.uf12zt1lkame). I would probably start with primordial half-giant and then stack half-fey on top of it, total +8 Cha and a buttload of cool abilities for +3 LA total. Alternately, if cohort LA is kosher, you might go with a petal, which has +8 Cha for +2 LA (cohort), not quite as many cool abilities (but very big raw numbers).

[ShurikVch]

How about the Kormus (https://web.archive.org/web/20060422005734/wizo.wizards.com/ka/archive/KnowledgeArcana05.pdf)? (3 HD, LA +2, Cha 23)

[Oberron]

If you want a titanya feel star elf with magic blooded and unseelie fey templates is a -2 str, +2dex, -4con, -2wis,+6 cha for LA+0 with a lot of magic abilities packed in. The con hurts so might be better to take faerie mystery initiative feat for+int to hp instead of con.

[Ramza00]

There is a savage progression for the Half Fey template.

http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20040213a

Unlike 3.0 Savage Species savage progressions this 3.5 Savage Progression has slightly different rules. One of which is you can choose to get the template at a later date instead of a character level. Furthermore you can take only 1 level in a 2 LA template.

Well 1 LA of Half Fey gives you.

Dex +2, Cha +2, Con -2,
Fey type, low-light vision, +4 saves against enchantment spells and abilities
Charm Person at Will
HD 1 hypnotism 1/day
HD 3 Detect law 3/day
HD 5 Protection from law 3/day
HD 9 Eyebite or lesser geas 1/day
HD 13 Mass invisibility 1/day
HD 17 Insanity or mass charm 1/day

Furthermore Charm Person as a Spell Like Ability at will is awesome, charm person as a supernatural ability at will via the savage species feat supernatural transformation is incredible.

Supernatural abilities are not dispellable, they bypass spell resistance, and there is no attack of opportunity. They also have no verbal, somatic, or material component, nor does it require a focus or have an XP cost. The user activates it mentally. Thus no one can "ID" via a spellcraft check that you charmed another person. Since it is purely mental+standard action you can slip in charm persons just by interacting with people and they will have no knowledge. You can also keep on retrying this effect even if they make their save but they may sense something is off when they make their save but they have no way to identify the cause so in a group of people they will not be able to identify the caster.

Oh Supernatural Transformation also boosts the save dc for now it is 10+1/2 HD+Cha instead of 10+1+Cha.

So yeah Charm Person at will effectively allows you to make anyone a cult member, or merely a friend, or you are Gambit with your charming abilities that almost always work if the Fey chooses to be persistent.

Once charmed and the target is acting friendly to you, you can do charisma checks to shape their behavior, and most likely your charisma is going to be much higher than everyone else if you optimize for it. Remember you get to roll 1d20+Charisma against their 1d20+Charisma.

[Particle_Man]

Pixie ain't too bad. +4La for +6 CHR but a lot of other abilities too. Just call her the queen of the pixies of the east forest or something?

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/sprite.htm

[Bphill561]

I think everyone already covered the lower ECL options.


Gloura from Forgotten Realms: Underdark could maybe be kit bashed into a Savage Species style playable monster pc.

Only problem with the Gloura is it makes me want to throw on the Otherwordly feat to make all the racial HD outsider. Very nice for entry into sublime chord if you can get away with counting your racial HD as caster levels.

Further on the outsider note, the Slyph from monster manual II looks like a fey, but again is an outsider with Sorcerer casting of HD+4. So with 3 HD and a LA of +5 it is only one level behind in casting. You can also further advance the slyph by HD to gain more casting, a decent option at least up to 5HD before PrC entry.

Still sticking with Higher ECL, there is the Woodland Fairy from Dangerous Denizens - The monsters of Tellene (Kingdoms of Kalamar, 3rd party official). +6 LA, but it casts spells as a 7th level druid. -8 Str, +8 Dex, +0 Con, +2 Int, +4 Wisdom, +8 Charisma, tiny size, and a host of other abilities. Maybe outside of your range, but I thought I would mention it since you mentioned 3rd party official dragonlance feats and it has the requested druidic casting. Plus one of the few options without a Con negative modifier which is impressive on a tiny creature.

[Crake]

Only problem with the Gloura is it makes me want to throw on the Otherwordly feat to make all the racial HD outsider. Very nice for entry into sublime chord if you can get away with counting your racial HD as caster levels.

Except gloura don't qualify for otherworly at all?


Prerequisite

Deep Imaskari (Underdark [Deep Imaskar]), elf (Evermeet, Sildëyuir), or spirit folk (Ashane)

[LoyalPaladin]

Ah okay, well, unfortunately charisma in general is quite difficult to pump up with just a little bit of LA. Fey in general seem quite non-player friendly beyond playing a half fey. If you mix half fey and unseelie, you end up at +6 cha for +2 LA, which is decent, but you also get -4 con, which is quite painful. You could mix it in with a +con race, like gnome perhaps to try and alleviate that a bit.

Oh, feytouched are also a good player option, they're basically planetouched (tiefling/aasimar) but for fey, and they come with the very nice benefit of immunity to mind affecting at only +1 LA, and they get +2 cha as a boost, though they also get -2 con. You could potentially stack up feytouched, half fey (can be added to already fey creatures funnily enough), and unseelie fey, which would give you a whopping +6 dex, +2 wis, +8 cha, at the cost of -2 str and -6 con and +3 LA, which would make them a great canidate for faerie mysteries initiate to replace con with int for HP, and finding some way to grab cha to saves will help shore up your fort save.
I'm not opposed to stacking a lot of templates for this semi-theoretical build (good chance it could truly see play). I'd forgotten about the Faerie Mysteries Initiate feat! That's a good way to do that. I've seen some fey that add their CHA to AC and saves, it's a shame Unholy Toughness isn't easier to come by.


Im afb right now, and a wee bit rust on what I know, but what about petals or pixies?

And if I remember correctly, the spark, unseelie fey, and primordial giant templates all add to cha. I don`t recall if they are stackable however.

Side note: what is your avatar? Some sort of robot? :smallconfused:
I considered pixies and petals, but they're so darn small. It makes them aesthetically unpleasing to me for what I wanted haha. Spark is a good one (magic blooded?) that I'll definitely toss on top of anything!

My picture is the Mechanical Knight (https://www.deviantart.com/hgjart/art/Mechanical-Knight-144733548) by hgjart. :smallsmile:


How about the Kormus (https://web.archive.org/web/20060422005734/wizo.wizards.com/ka/archive/KnowledgeArcana05.pdf)? (3 HD, LA +2, Cha 23)
Oof. That HD sorta sucks to stick on top of it, but for +12 CHA at LA 2, that might be the best option I've ever seen.


My Warlockopedia has a section for level-adjusted templates here (https://docs.google.com/document/d/162mLgTiBJ4et4yFkZRoBAZzb0fW8vRaC1gR4YolKGiE/edit#heading=h.uf12zt1lkame). I would probably start with primordial half-giant and then stack half-fey on top of it, total +8 Cha and a buttload of cool abilities for +3 LA total. Alternately, if cohort LA is kosher, you might go with a petal, which has +8 Cha for +2 LA (cohort), not quite as many cool abilities (but very big raw numbers).
I'll check all those out. I'm not familiar with Primordial.


If you want a titanya feel star elf with magic blooded and unseelie fey templates is a -2 str, +2dex, -4con, -2wis,+6 cha for LA+0 with a lot of magic abilities packed in. The con hurts so might be better to take faerie mystery initiative feat for+int to hp instead of con.
Star Elf was my first go-to to totally modify, I considered going from there to the capstone of Heartwarder (I love that class and I refuse to accept it isn't good.)


Pixie ain't too bad. +4La for +6 CHR but a lot of other abilities too. Just call her the queen of the pixies of the east forest or something?

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/sprite.htm
I kinda want to be a "big bad" (sans the evil connotations) Faerie. Something spooky and intimidating. Pixie just sorta falls flat from that.


I think everyone already covered the lower ECL options.

Only problem with the Gloura is it makes me want to throw on the Otherwordly feat to make all the racial HD outsider. Very nice for entry into sublime chord if you can get away with counting your racial HD as caster levels.

Further on the outsider note, the Slyph from monster manual II looks like a fey, but again is an outsider with Sorcerer casting of HD+4. So with 3 HD and a LA of +5 it is only one level behind in casting. You can also further advance the slyph by HD to gain more casting, a decent option at least up to 5HD before PrC entry.

Still sticking with Higher ECL, there is the Woodland Fairy from Dangerous Denizens - The monsters of Tellene (Kingdoms of Kalamar, 3rd party official). +6 LA, but it casts spells as a 7th level druid. -8 Str, +8 Dex, +0 Con, +2 Int, +4 Wisdom, +8 Charisma, tiny size, and a host of other abilities. Maybe outside of your range, but I thought I would mention it since you mentioned 3rd party official dragonlance feats and it has the requested druidic casting. Plus one of the few options without a Con negative modifier which is impressive on a tiny creature.
Do you have a solid place to grab the Woodland Fairy stats from? I'd need to show that to my DM for sure...

I'll have to pull Sylph up in the morning.

[Troacctid]

I'm not familiar with Primordial.
It's from Secrets of Xen'drik.

[Oberron]

Star Elf was my first go-to to totally modify, I considered going from there to the capstone of Heartwarder (I love that class and I refuse to accept it isn't good.)
.

You can actually get into Heartwarder early with unseelie fey by 3rd. If you pick autumn or summer they give you access to a 3rd lvl spell. You have plenty of skill points by then. Only thing would be the feats which is doable with flaws but some of the feat requirements are odd (ewp:whip?, sf:enchantment when you get it later in the lvls? I'd ask the dm to ignore the spell focus requirement at least).

The prc seems like an odd gish class but with the cha bumping it seems like bard or stalwart battle sorcerer could be best bet, maybe even dusk blade but that would require another feat to change casting Stat from int to cha.

[Maat Mons]

I'm not well-versed in level-adjusted options. But here are some +0 LA options.

Duskling (Magic of Incarnum, p10), Faun (Deities and Demigods, p133), and Killoren (Races of the Wild, p102) are all medium-sized fey. If you don't mind being small, Gruwaar (Dragon 317, p25) is another option. The savage progression (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20040213a) for Feytouched lets you take it for +0 LA.

If this is for actual play, I think the DM should be apprised that the LA for Unseelie Fey is infered from an NPC statblock, not actually given in the template.

You could use Complacent Human (Dragon 320, p87) for +2 Cha. Then add on Human Paragon 3 for another +2 Cha, while only falling 1 level behind on casting. Maybe also add in the Magic Blooded template for +2 Cha, -2 Wis, assuming your DM rules that Complacent Human is a "Player's Handbook race." And, I guess, Unseelie Fey too.

[Troacctid]

Regarding unseelie fey, it was never given a level adjustment value when it was updated from 3.0 (nor were any of the other templates in Dragon Compendium). It would be up to the DM to adapt it for player use.

[LoyalPaladin]

So let's just say, theoretically, an Unseelie Fey, Magic Blooded, Kormus could potential have a +16 bonus to CHA?


It's from Secrets of Xen'drik.
Thanks!


You can actually get into Heartwarder early with unseelie fey by 3rd. If you pick autumn or summer they give you access to a 3rd lvl spell. You have plenty of skill points by then. Only thing would be the feats which is doable with flaws but some of the feat requirements are odd (ewp:whip?, sf:enchantment when you get it later in the lvls? I'd ask the dm to ignore the spell focus requirement at least).

The prc seems like an odd gish class but with the cha bumping it seems like bard or stalwart battle sorcerer could be best bet, maybe even dusk blade but that would require another feat to change casting Stat from int to cha.
I get flaws, so that's fine. My DM is also super flexible, so I should be fine to do a little tweaking of things.


If this is for actual play, I think the DM should be apprised that the LA for Unseelie Fey is infered from an NPC statblock, not actually given in the template.

You could use Complacent Human (Dragon 320, p87) for +2 Cha. Then add on Human Paragon 3 for another +2 Cha, while only falling 1 level behind on casting. Maybe also add in the Magic Blooded template for +2 Cha, -2 Wis, assuming your DM rules that Complacent Human is a "Player's Handbook race." And, I guess, Unseelie Fey too.
I'm probably not going to use Human paragon. I get free +3 LA to use, after all!

[Bphill561]

Except gloura don't qualify for otherworly at all?

Except it does....

Celestial-Attended Birth, champions of Valor, page 22. Applies to any region, no race requirement.

[ShurikVch]

Tarterian Creature template - from The Shackled City Adventure Path - can give you from +2 to +6 Cha (depending on which Demodand) for no extra LA at all; cheesy, but RAW