To add more Eldritch into Eldritch Knight: Eldritch Knight / Hexblade

[Arkhios]

OK. I just had an interesting idea recently, which I thought I'd try and see how it could lay out.

Any ideas on how to approach this?

For the sake of the thought experiment, let's say we use Point-buy.

[DrKerosene]

Do you mean like “Battle Master 11/Tomelock 9” so you get two level-5 spells per short rest, and get three attacks per attack action? Or like “Eldritch Knight 5/Hexblade 3” with a breakdown of when to consider grabbing the Warlock levels with consideration for casting needs of the group?

[Arkhios]

Do you mean like “Battle Master 11/Tomelock 9” so you get two level-5 spells per short rest, and get three attacks per attack action? Or like “Eldritch Knight 5/Hexblade 3” with a breakdown of when to consider grabbing the Warlock levels with consideration for casting needs of the group?

I don't know how you came up with "Battle Master" when the topic clearly spells out Eldritch Knight / Hexblade :smalltongue:

I mean, literally, Eldritch Knight multiclassed with Hexblade. I was thinking of Eldritch Knight 11/Hexblade 9. That way you'd get access to more spells known, as well as both long rest and short rest spell slots. The way multiclassing works, even though Spellcasting and Pact Magic don't stack, you can cast any spell you know with any spell slots you have. And it works both ways.

Eldritch Knight 11 has the maximum possible amount of 1st and 2nd level Spell Slots from Spellcasting (4 and 3, respectively). On top of that, with Warlock 9, they'd have up to 5th level spell slots to use for better scaling spells.

But what I'm asking is, what to choose within those builds, such as spells, other feats, how to distribute stats, and the like. Extra fun could be achieved with relying mostly on Charisma, backed up by Intelligence for the Wizard spells.

Like, a Half-Elf with Str 8, Dex 14, Con 14, Int 14, Wis 10, Cha 16.

[Morollan]

Whilst Hexblade is an excellent multiclassing option for any Cha-based class due to the huge frontloading of its benefits, I'm not sure it does a great deal for the EK. You have 4 1st, 2 2nd and 2 5th level slots (which you could use for upcasting spells). If you took those 9 levels in a spellcasting class you would have 4/3/3/3/2/1 slots. Abjuration wizard is probably a good option. I'd probably go EK10 for Eldritch Strike and Abjurer 10 for improved abjuration or alternatively EK 12 for the extra ASI and extra attack at the cost of improved abjuration and a few points off your arcane ward. You could also dump Cha then and concentrate on Int, Dex and Con.

[Arkhios]

Whilst Hexblade is an excellent multiclassing option for any Cha-based class due to the huge frontloading of its benefits, I'm not sure it does a great deal for the EK. You have 4 1st, 2 2nd and 2 5th level slots (which you could use for upcasting spells). If you took those 9 levels in a spellcasting class you would have 4/3/3/3/2/1 slots. Abjuration wizard is probably a good option. I'd probably go EK10 for Eldritch Strike and Abjurer 10 for improved abjuration.

It's just that it seems a huge waste of spell slot to cast Shield (given as an expanded spell option for Hexblades) with a Warlock's automatically upscaling spell slots. And the Warlock has very little spells that scale terribly well with higher level slots, while the wizard list has more at lower spell levels.

So I consider it a bonus that you get a few long rest spell slots from EK to be used with spells that don't scale (such as Shield; whether you took it from EK or Hexblade)

The main appeal to Hexblade is, however, being able to practically dump strength and maybe even dexterity, and be able to compensate both with your Charisma. As a fighter you get proficiency with heaviest of armors, and having proficiency is much more important than meeting the strength requirement, as low strength only means you move 10 feet slower. Nothing else.

So, all in all, it's the controversy in the concept that appeals to me the most. Generally a fighter is expected to be physically impressive meathead, but this could be so much more.

[Morollan]

Fair enough if it's the concept that appeals. I just don't feel that there are many mechanical benefits to this combo.

[Mjolnirbear]

Personally I'd go battle master as well. I'm also not sure I'd go Fighter 11. Three attacks, for me personally, is not nearly enough to suffer though 11 levels the most boring class ever.

Suppose I do go EK though; I'd go lock eleven. Three spells per short rest, a sixth level spell.

For me, the pact is the hard choice. There's no real need to go Blade. Fighter gives everything I was in a martial and going blade adds useless duplication. Except Eldritch Smite. With all these spell slots you can freely smite and auto-prone anything.

Chain, on the other hand, gives Gift of the Ever-Living ones. That's a tanky piece of work now.

I wouldn't do Tome unless you want an especially magical fighter-mage. It's true that EK is gonna be the one that makes the best combat use of all those cantrips.

Build 1: The Knight Arcane
EK/Hex Bladelock.
Cha>Dex=Con>Wis>int/str
Increase each class as you want. Start fighter for con saves or warlock for more spells and weird crap. Eldritch Smite, Agonizing, Repelling. You can fight at whichever range you want. Or take the Hex invocations, which are amazingly fun.

Build 2: The Fey Chevalier
EK/Feylock of the Chain
STR=CHA>CON>>>
You have the strength for heavy armor. Use it. Your job is to be sticky and tough. Use the Gift invocation to make keeping you alive easy and your Fey Escape to avoid a potential deathblow. With your Armour I'd go Polearm or Sentinel. Your Sprite helps you target enemies, toss down caltrops, and the other good stuff.

[Arkhios]

Personally I'd go battle master as well. I'm also not sure I'd go Fighter 11. Three attacks, for me personally, is not nearly enough to suffer though 11 levels the most boring class ever.

Suppose I do go EK though; I'd go lock eleven. Three spells per short rest, a sixth level spell.

For me, the pact is the hard choice. There's no real need to go Blade. Fighter gives everything I was in a martial and going blade adds useless duplication. Except Eldritch Smite. With all these spell slots you can freely smite and auto-prone anything.

Chain, on the other hand, gives Gift of the Ever-Living ones. That's a tanky piece of work now.

I wouldn't do Tome unless you want an especially magical fighter-mage. It's true that EK is gonna be the one that makes the best combat use of all those cantrips.

Build 1: The Knight Arcane
EK/Hex Bladelock.
Cha>Dex=Con>Wis>int/str
Increase each class as you want. Start fighter for con saves or warlock for more spells and weird crap. Eldritch Smite, Agonizing, Repelling. You can fight at whichever range you want. Or take the Hex invocations, which are amazingly fun.

Build 2: The Fey Chevalier
EK/Feylock of the Chain
STR=CHA>CON>>>
You have the strength for heavy armor. Use it. Your job is to be sticky and tough. Use the Gift invocation to make keeping you alive easy and your Fey Escape to avoid a potential deathblow. With your Armour I'd go Polearm or Sentinel. Your Sprite helps you target enemies, toss down caltrops, and the other good stuff.

Pact of the Blade itself adds very little duplication. Thirsting Blade invocation (the one that acts like Extra Attack) is an optional choice you don't have to take. The only duplication I can really think of is the bonding with a weapon. Which might seem to be redundant. But is it, really. Why would it be a problem that you have, at best, 3 different weapons you have bonded with? The more the merrier, I say! :smallbiggrin:

[gkathellar]

It's a perfectly serviceable class combo, especially for an archer using War Magic to combine Eldritch Blast with a ranged attack, but I don't think there's a strong argument for taking fighter past 7 levels. Your proposed build in particular means you trade a warlock spell slot, two Mystic Arcana, and Armor of Hexes for Indomitable (actually hurts a bit), Eldritch Strike (meh), another extra attack (which, because Eldritch Knight is badly designed, has negative synergy with war magic), and one second level spell slot. You might be able to justify going Fighter 9 for Indomitable, but you have to bear in mind that you want your build to come together before level 20. Advantage: Hexblade 13/Eldritch Knight 7.

Mind you, what you've got on paper will work fine. But it's not actually going to have a ton of synergy.

[Sudsboy]

It's a perfectly serviceable class combo, especially for an archer using War Magic to combine Eldritch Blast with a ranged attack, but I don't think there's a strong argument for taking fighter past 7 levels.

If I were building the EK/lock I'd go 11EK/9 fiend tome and maximize shadow blade usage. 3 attacks per round (many with advantage in dim light), 4d8+5 and roughly 10 temp HP every mook you kill.

[BarneyBent]

EK 7/ Hexblade 2 is a powerful combination. Take Agonizing blast, cast it and make a weapon attack with a bonus action. Probably best done in melee with Crossbow Expert.

Given you’re making just one weapon attack per round, after EK 7 (or 8 for the ASI), you can consider Rogue or Paladin to boost that single attack’s damage, and possibly an extra level of Hexblade for the Pact Boon.

As you level up you’ll get more and more attacks out of Eldritch Blast. You won’t match the DPR of a fully optimised GWM/SS fighter, but you keep pretty close and gain a lot in versatility, and if you multiclass Paladin or Rogue then you can actually match or exceed.

For example, a level 11 GWM/PAM EK does something like 4d12 + 20 (STR bonus) + 40 (GWM bonus) at about 40% hit rate, for about 43 DPR.

A level 11 melee EK 7/ Hexblade 2/Paladin 2 using Sword and Board with Crossbow Expert, Defence fighting style does 3d10 + 1d8 + 20 at about 65% hit rate, for 27 base damage and +3 AC. On top of that, there’s Hex and Hexblade’s Curse, doing a potential (but not always realised) (4d6 + 16) * 0.65 per turn, which is about another 24 DPR. Let’s say, conservatively, about 60% of that damage is realised over the course of the day (Hexblade’s Curse only once per short rest plus bonus action competition). That’s still about 15 damage, taking it up to 39 DPR. Then you’ve got spell slots for smiting from Paladin 2, and probably the Dueling Fighting Style, so that’s another 1.5 DPR (after hit rate) plus smites. So you’re about equal, have taken one fewer feat, have more low-level slots for Shield, an expanded spell list, and a a spare invocation.

From there, take more Paladin, maybe take Warlock for greater utility, maybe take Fighter 8 if you need the ASI, etc.

[Deleted]

OK. I just had an interesting idea recently, which I thought I'd try and see how it could lay out.

Any ideas on how to approach this?

For the sake of the thought experiment, let's say we use Point-buy.

Just don't play the Eldritch Knight. Play an armored Warlock. The fighter part is very redundant.

[Nhorianscum]

OK. I just had an interesting idea recently, which I thought I'd try and see how it could lay out.

Any ideas on how to approach this?

For the sake of the thought experiment, let's say we use Point-buy.

Fi1/Lock 5/EK5/Lock 6/EK7/lock 7/EK11/Paladin 2 would be my prefered split taking a rav background for some good up-cast options. We grab thirsting blade and use that till fighter frees up the invo and then roll into hard smite machine territory. With up to 8 attacks per round we can blow our load pretty hard and short rest to get back lock slots. Not having room for EK 12/13 is annoying here

Alternately Fi1/Lock1/EK11/lock9 works.

Stats on both look like 16 cha/16 con/16 dex with ASI's going to cha20(2), res wis and 2-3 free feats. First split is damage focused with blade pact, second is utility focused with chain.

[Bloodcloud]

Or... drop hexblade. Be a pushy bully

I'll throw in my personnal build, eldritch blast knight.

Lvl 1: Vhuman ftr1 (feat crossbow expert) (defense fighting style)
Lvl 2-6: Warlock (fiend) (Tome) Pick up eldritch blast with repelling and agonizing blast, grab booming blade and shillelagh. Grab warcaster for your ASI.
Lvl 7-12: fighter (eldritch knight). Max Charisma with the ASIs.
13-15: more warlock.

At level 5: you are Ftr 1 warlock 4. You are wearing heavy armor and shield with defense style, so sky high ac. On a kill you get 7 thp, which can keep you going quite well. You have two 2nd level spell slot wich recharge on a short rest with misty step and a bonus action healing. You cast eldritch blast in melee and at range as you want, and can use this to push enemies 20 ft away where you want. You have proficiency in concentration and advantage, so you can maintain hex no problem. Next level you get third level slots. Then you get action surge.

At level 11: you are warlock 5 ftr 6. Your cha is maxed now maxed, you got your third eldritch blast and action surge, which mean a push of up to 60 ft on a turn. Hex last for 8 hours, and you have stellar concentration and ac to keep it going all day. This combo quite well with action surge, for decent nova rounds of 6d10+30+6d6 if everything hits. You also got 3 1st level slot for shield/absorb element. If the enemy tries to leave your reach, you punish it with booming blade using your staff (ideally with shillelagh active, cast before combat). You are tank, can switch ranged attack/melee attack seemlessly, can push enemy around easy, oh and you have access to just about every rituals in the game if you wish.

Level 12 you get two level 2 spell slot and war magic, to stack a staff wack after those eldritch blast. Then you up warlock for 4th level slots and a short rest boost to saving throw/skill check.

Rest is warlock for more and more spells