How much Heresy is a Wisdom-based Arcane caster?

[Kyutaru]

Wisdom is usually the divine casting spot, super defensive and full of heals like the stat itself. WotC came up with a Wisdom-based arcane caster in the form of the Dark Hunter but it was a fey class from 3.5 edition so we'll forgive them for being strange. Pathfinder had a few ways to make arcanists into wisemen too but they had a divine twist on the traditional scholar.

Is this even acceptable to you? Should it be in 5e at all? Is arcane wisdom blatant heresy?

[Clistenes]

I can't see why not. A Wisdom-based Sorcerer makes at least as much sense as a Charisma-based one...

[Mercurias]

SCAG has an Arcana Cleric Domain which specifically transfers some really nice, versatile Arcane spells into Cleric form.

In terms of game lore, there are all kinds of gods of knowledge and magic whose divine gifts could manifest in the form of divinely-inspired sigils or spells.

In the end, I'm pretty sure lore can state that everyone is accessing one generic 'magical source'. The difference is in how they tap into it. Clerics are granted it by gods, Sorcerers get it flavored by their origin, Paladins gain it through the strength of their convictions, Warlocks gain access as a gift from their patron, and most other arcane casters either gain access through study and practice.

[Chronos]

The distinction between "divine casting" and "arcane casting" hardly even exists at all in 5th edition: It's literally a single sentence in a single setting-specific sidebar.

And even if it does matter, I present Granny Weatherwax. She sure as heck isn't a follower of any god, but you try telling me her main stat isn't Wisdom.

[Clistenes]

3.5 third edition's Alderac Entertainment's sourcebook "Magic" had a Runewright class who was a Wisdom-based Sorcerer. They lost some Summoning and Transmutation spells, gained the ability to wear light armor, and used rune-carved stones as spellcasting foci. They could write runes on normal items in order to use them as scrolls...

You could take inspiration from them...


The distinction between "divine casting" and "arcane casting" hardly even exists at all in 5th edition: It's literally a single sentence in a single setting-specific sidebar.

And even if it does matter, I present Granny Weatherwax. She sure as heck isn't a follower of any god, but you try telling me her main stat isn't Wisdom.

Yeah, but her casting is Charisma-based... she tricks or bullies the universe into following her orders...

[stoutstien]

Switching casting stat has very little impact if you also stipulated no multi-class while doing so. Had an int based warlock and was a blast.

[Waazraath]

Extra heresy! https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Extra_Heresy

[Kyutaru]

SCAG has an Arcana Cleric Domain which specifically transfers some really nice, versatile Arcane spells into Cleric form.

In terms of game lore, there are all kinds of gods of knowledge and magic whose divine gifts could manifest in the form of divinely-inspired sigils or spells.


The distinction between "divine casting" and "arcane casting" hardly even exists at all in 5th edition: It's literally a single sentence in a single setting-specific sidebar.

True enough but from a god would make it divine, even if it's arcane, so arcane casting with the wisdom modifier stands out as peculiar. It's like... you're harnessing magic in the fabric of the Weave not with scholarly aptitude or personal willpower but with... common sense? Perception?

It's almost like a Monk decided to meditate one day and unlocked the secrets of the universe.

[Man_Over_Game]

Switching casting stat has very little impact if you also stipulated no multi-class while doing so. Had an int based warlock and was a blast.

You could go one step further and switch the casting stat, allowed multiclassing, and use my shamelessly plugged Prestige Options (in the sig) to ensure that your game stays balanced while allowing more unique and diverse builds!

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One thing that's important to consider is that each casting stat has its own inherent weaknesses.


Charisma is bad at exploring and interparty interaction. It only works with solving problems from outside the party.
Intelligence is bad at preventing problems. It only works with interacting within the party.
Wisdom is bad at solving problems, it's really only useful for preventing them and exploring.


Even though the Sorcerer and the Wizard have the same list, they're both not great at exploring or having any survival skills. They're both really dependent on being with a party. On the flipside, though, a Wisdom-based Arcane caster would have a solution for almost any problem. I think this was intentional, due to the fact that the Arcane Cleric is a bit on the weaker side. It's highly versatile, and ends up removing the need for a lot of other roles (from healer, to arcane utility caster, to ranged damage dealer, to off-tank, etc). A Wisdom-based Arcane Blaster would be somewhat similar, having very good skills to compensate for the few weaknesses in their expansive spell list.

[ad_hoc]

No, it isn't acceptable.

At some point you're just creating a mush of abilities and stats which don't mean anything.

[Chronos]

Quoth Kyutaru:

True enough but from a god would make it divine, even if it's arcane...
So, what kind is it if you draw your power from devotion to some powerful extraplanar creature? Because that sidebar says that warlocks are arcane.

Man_Over_Game, are you sure you're in the right edition? Sorcerers and wizards have different lists. Mostly the wizard's is larger, but sorcerers also get access to a few spells wizards don't, such as Enhance Ability, Insect Plague, and Earthquake. And I have no idea what you mean by the uses of the different abilities: Charisma can be used to explore by getting directions from a local, or within the party (I assume you meant "intra-party", not "inter-party") by persuading other party members of things. Intelligence can tell you things about enemies (with knowledge skills) or what they're doing (such as by Arcana), which is outside of the party. And knowing those things beforehand can help you prepare. Wisdom can solve problems like figuring out who to trust.

[Xetheral]

I think it would be totally fine. I'd suggest that the term "Hedge Mage" would be appropriate for an intuitive caster who figures out how to use wizardry without (necessarily) understanding the underlying concepts.

[Man_Over_Game]

So, what kind is it if you draw your power from devotion to some powerful extraplanar creature? Because that sidebar says that warlocks are arcane.

Man_Over_Game, are you sure you're in the right edition? Sorcerers and wizards have different lists. Mostly the wizard's is larger, but sorcerers also get access to a few spells wizards don't, such as Enhance Ability, Insect Plague, and Earthquake. And I have no idea what you mean by the uses of the different abilities: Charisma can be used to explore by getting directions from a local, or within the party (I assume you meant "intra-party", not "inter-party") by persuading other party members of things. Intelligence can tell you things about enemies (with knowledge skills) or what they're doing (such as by Arcana), which is outside of the party. And knowing those things beforehand can help you prepare. Wisdom can solve problems like figuring out who to trust.

I'm...fairly sure. Maybe 65% sure.

Sorcerers and Wizard have different lists, but when most people are talking about "arcane" magic, they're talking about Sorcerers, Wizards and Warlocks being some kind of dark-magic-hybrid thing. Minus a bunch of utility spells, the Sorcerer's spell list is almost identical to the Wizard's.

As for the skills, a lot of what you're describing are things that you could do in prior editions (for example, knowledge skills in 4e told you about enemy stats, Gathering information from a local has actually been moved to the Investigation skill), but there's not a lot of support for most of what you described in 5e.

*Turns interrogation lamp around*
Are YOU sure you're in the right edition? WHAT EDITION IS THIS?!

[JakOfAllTirades]

Matt Mercer's Blood Hunter class is Wisdom based, and one of its Archetypes gets Warlock spells.

But yeah, "Order of the Profaned Soul" pretty much screams heresy, so there you go.

[Chronos]

Well, yeah, there's not a lot of support in 5e for what I said, because there's not a lot of support in 5e for any usage of ability scores.

[Millstone85]

And even if it does matter, I present Granny Weatherwax. She sure as heck isn't a follower of any god, but you try telling me her main stat isn't Wisdom.It is my conviction that Discworld witches are best represented by the druid class:

They consider themselves shepherds of rural communities, and watchers against otherwordly invasions.
They often talk about the power of the land, and the idea of an urban witch is commonly (though mistakenly) considered absurd.
One of their traditions is to become various animals, albeit more often through possession than through shapeshifting.
They are way less bookish than wizards, and Wisdom does indeed seem more appropriate.


So, what kind is it if you draw your power from devotion to some powerful extraplanar creature? Because that sidebar says that warlocks are arcane.So the sidebar says that a warlock's access to the Weave is direct rather than mediated. To me, it means that a warlock doesn't have on ongoing connection with their patron like a cleric does with their god. Rather, the warlock is taught secrets and/or permanently imbued with power, once, or once per level.