Build-A-Murderhobo!

[Man_Over_Game]

I'm theorycrafting a build who's entire goal is to murder things efficiently. Help me accomplish my dream of killing people!

The build I'm considering consists of being a Hexblade Warlock + Devotion Paladin to get a regular bonus on my Charisma attacks, while combining it with Sharpshooter and Crossbow Expert for highly accurate, high damage, highly repetitive damage. Lastly, I'm cheesing Strength out of the build by going Mountain Dwarf, so that the only stats I need are Charisma and Constitution.

So, something like this:

Race: Mountain Dwarf


Paladin 1
Warlock 1 (Hexblade)
Paladin 2
Paladin 3 (Devotion)
Paladin 4 (Sharpshooter)
Paladin 5
Paladin 6
Paladin 7
Paladin 8 (Crossbow Expert)
Paladin X (putting all ASIs into Charisma>Constitution)


Now, the Mountain Dwarf means I can afford to put an 11 into Strength at the start, giving me the bare minimum to multiclass. Would you say it's better to grab Crossbow Expert first, or Sharpshooter to combine with the Paladin's upgraded attack?

However, would it be better to go Variant Human, picking up Crossbow Expert at 1 and Sharpshooter at 4? Doing so would mean I'd lose out on Darkvision, and I'd have to put my 2nd highest stat into Strength. I'd also lose out on the heaviest possible armor, or spend another +2 points into Strength to do so.

[Rukelnikov]

I understand you plan to rely on devotion Cha to attack to keep your to hit up, however, Paladin doesn't have archery style, and 15 Cha means only +2 to att and damage. I imagine you take SS so early to ignore cover, but I think going for XBE early would yield better results, anlo you need to get Cha to at least 16.

For comparison's sake:

Lvl 6: Ftr(archery, XBE, 20 Dex)
+9 to att, 1d4+4 dam, 3 attacks, 19.5 avg

Lvl6: your build(with devotion on)
+7 att 1d4+1d6+2 dam, 2 attacks, 16 avg

Lvl6: Vhuman(HL1, Dev5, XBE, 18 Cha)
+7/+11 att, 1d4+1d6+4, 3 attacks, 30 avg

Take SS at Pal8

Full stats:

8
14
15+1
8
10
15+1

Or something of the sort, idt 1 AC is worth putting 15 in str, specially since you'll be playing ranged.

Edit: forgot MC requirements

15
8
15+1
8
8
15+1

Yeah go for plate

[Man_Over_Game]

I understand you plan to rely on devotion Cha to attack to keep your to hit up, however, Paladin doesn't have archery style, and 15 Cha means only +2 to att and damage. I imagine you take SS so early to ignore cover, but I think going for XBE early would yield better results, anlo you need to get Cha to at least 16.

For comparison's sake:

Lvl 6: Ftr(archery, XBE, 20 Dex)
+9 to att, 1d4+4 dam, 3 attacks, 19.5 avg

Lvl6: your build(with devotion on)
+7 att 1d4+1d6+2 dam, 2 attacks, 16 avg

Lvl6: Vhuman(HL1, Dev5, XBE, 18 Cha)
+7/+11 att, 1d4+1d6+4, 3 attacks, 30 avg

Take SS at Pal8

Full stats:

8
14
15+1
8
10
15+1

Or something of the sort, idt 1 AC is worth putting 15 in str, specially since you'll be playing ranged.

Hmm...valid point!

Would you said it'd be worth it to grab one level into Fighter for the Fighting Style? Or just leave it?

[Rukelnikov]

Hmm...valid point!

Would you said it'd be worth it to grab one level into Fighter for the Fighting Style? Or just leave it?

Well... Tbh, I'm not sure what's the point in going past paladin 6, yeah you get IDS, that +3d8/round, which is good, and very very very late you get Holy Weapon. But... Idk, feels like a lot of unfun lvls in the middle. Is there something more I'm not seeing?

Edit: IDS doesn't work with rangeds

[LudicSavant]

Theorycrafting a build who's entire goal is to murder things efficiently. Help me accomplish my dream of killing people!

The build I'm considering consists of being a Hexblade Warlock + Devotion Paladin to get a regular bonus on my Charisma attacks, while combining it with Sharpshooter and Crossbow Expert for highly accurate, high damage, highly repetitive damage. Lastly, I'm cheesing Strength out of the build by going Mountain Dwarf, so that the only stats I need are Charisma and Constitution.

So, something like this:

Race: Mountain Dwarf


Paladin 1
Warlock 1 (Hexblade)
Paladin 2
Paladin 3 (Devotion)
Paladin 4 (Sharpshooter)
Paladin 5
Paladin 6
Paladin 7
Paladin 8 (Crossbow Expert)
Paladin X (putting all ASIs into Charisma>Constitution)


Now, the Mountain Dwarf means I can afford to put an 11 into Strength at the start, giving me the bare minimum to multiclass.

However, would it be better to go Variant Human, picking up Crossbow Expert at 1 and Sharpshooter at 4? Doing so would mean I'd lose out on Darkvision, and I'd have to put my 2nd highest stat into Strength.

This build has some severe issues.

First, Mountain Dwarf is a major setback for this build from an optimization perspective. You get no benefit from the proficiency, nor do you get a benefit to your primary stat, and this is all for what... to be able to wear plate with "only" half the speed penalty? This is way too much cost for too little benefit. And even if you want to be a dwarf for purely conceptual reasons, all of the other dwarf subraces in the game would be better choices, because they provide actual subrace benefits.

Second, your build gets Crossbow Expert at level 9 and before that, you have no ranged weapon that you can use with Hex Warrior and Extra Attack except for a... sling? So you've got 1d4 bludgeoning damage if you want to dump your Dex and Str as you plan. And you're getting Extra Attack a level late. And you've got no attack stat at all at level 1, so that'll be rough.

Third, on top of having no bonuses to your primary stat, you have no ability score improvements until level 13 (at which point your Cha will catch up to the amount that a first level character would normally have). And don't think you're going to be getting great dividends from Sharpshooter and Crossbow Expert without a lot more accuracy than you're getting, even if you happen to get a chance to pre-buff with your Channel Divinity before a fight. Not having the Archery style, proper stats, a plan to get regular Advantage, or a decent weapon that can use your Charisma means that your DPR is going to be a big problem, because your archer competition is going to have (for example) a maxed stat by level 6 with the archery style and regular access to Advantage and Elven Accuracy and Action Surge and you get the idea.

Fourth, you can't smite. Divine Smite only works with melee attacks. Hex Warrior only lets you attune to a single weapon, so you can't swap for a backup. You're going deep enough into Paladin to get Improved Divine Smite and the like, but no benefit from it.

Is there some particular reason that you're doing this as a Warlock 1/Paladin X? If your goal is just raw bow murdering efficiency, consider a Fighter.

[Rukelnikov]

This build has some severe issues.

First, Mountain Dwarf is a major setback for this build from an optimization perspective. You get no benefit from the proficiency, nor do you get a benefit to your primary stat, and this is all for what... to be able to wear plate with "only" half the speed penalty? This is way too much cost for too little benefit. And even if you want to be a dwarf for purely conceptual reasons, all of the other dwarf subraces in the game would be better choices, because they provide actual subrace benefits.

Second, your build gets Crossbow Expert at level 9 and before that, you have no ranged weapon that you can use with Hex Warrior and Extra Attack except for a... sling? So you've got 1d4 bludgeoning damage if you want to dump your Dex and Str as you plan. And you're getting Extra Attack a level late. And you've got no attack stat at all at level 1, so that'll be rough.

Third, on top of having no bonuses to your primary stat, you have no ASIs until level 13 (at which point your Cha will catch up to the amount that a first level character would normally have). And don't think you're going to be getting great dividends from Sharpshooter and Crossbow Expert without a lot more accuracy than you're getting, even if you happen to get a chance to pre-buff with your Channel Divinity before a fight. Not having the Archery style, proper stats, a plan to get regular Advantage, or a decent weapon that can use your Charisma means that your DPR is going to be a problem, because your archer competition is going to have (for example) a maxed stat by level 6 with the archery style and regular access to Advantage and Elven Accuracy and Action Surge and you get the idea.

Fourth, you can't smite. Divine Smite only works with melee attacks. Hex Warrior only lets you attune to a single weapon, so you can't swap for a backup. You're going deep enough into Paladin to get Improved Divine Smite and the like, but no benefit from it.

Is there some particular reason that you're doing this as a Warlock 1/Paladin X? If your goal is just raw bow murdering efficiency, consider a Fighter.

Well, Cha to att a second time is good, it essentially removes SS penalty, and while not a DPS increase, Pal6 in a chance based build is nice. My only prob with Pal 6 is getting extra attack twice which I try to avoid on principle. However, Pal4/Ftr11/Hex5, could shoot from Darkness with adv, make 4 attacks, and ignore SS penalty to attack.

[CTurbo]

I think a straight Dex Archer SS Champion would do better than that.
A straight Archer SS Ranger probably would too.

Mix in some Rogue levels in either would probably be even better.

[Ventruenox]

I built a murderhobo (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?565531-Making-a-murderhobo-for-a-one-shot&highlight=Murderhobo) in recent memory. Even used the poor guy from "Bum Fight" as the profile image. Turned a few stomachs with excellent RP, and the phrase "Give us a kiss" makes everyone in my group shudder now.

[Rukelnikov]

Just because, here's a ranged murderhobo:

8
15+2
14
8
14
12+1

Ftr5 SS
Shadow Sorc5 EA(Dex)
Gloomstalker3
FtrX +2 Dex, ??

[Misterwhisper]

So your plan is to play a paladin who does not smite much?

robohobo

Warforged envoy
Do not need to Eat, sleep, drink or breathe.
Built in armor that upgrades with you.
Good skills and a tool expertise

Just take stats.

Celestial warlock pact of the blade 12/arcana cleric for armor and level 8 wis to damage
Great self healing
Green flame blade weapon can get 4d8 + dex/str + cha + cha + cha + wis + 1 with no gear at all

Invocations:
Improved pact weapon for a free always available +1 weapon.
eldritch smite for crits and flyers
Life drinker for more flat damage
Devils sight is always nice
Agonizing blast

Spells:

Eldritch blast
Green flame blade

Shadow of Moil: amazing
Armor of agathys

Cleric for buffs and heals

You have enough self healing and damage at all ranges to. E an i stopping engine of killing.

[Corran]

I'm theorycrafting a build who's entire goal is to murder things efficiently. Help me accomplish my dream of killing people!

If you are not using fire, you are doing it wrong!
Seriously though, might I tempt you to a phoenix sorcerer (assuming UA is allowed; if not, plead with the DM, say it's for a good cause)? They can set things on fire by touching them, you can pick all the juicy fire spells, from fireball to immolation (hey, not all of them are good, but we are going for flavor here :p). You can pick subtle even if you want, for social murderhoboing. And when you go out (because murderhobos eventually get taken out), you go out with a bang! I'd pick tiefling for race, although there is something vaguely promising about a halfling mureerhobo pc (a halfling that can use disguise kit or disguise self to disguise themselves as an innocent child!). Is explosive runes still a thing...?

Edit: Play sth charismatic! More friends now means more people to stab at the back in the future!

[Great Dragon]

I think a straight Dex Archer SS Champion would do better than that.
A straight Archer SS Ranger probably would too.

Mix in some Rogue levels in either would probably be even better.

The Archer Champion idea is good, for improved crits.

I'd go for the following:

1) Ranger (Bold)
Take Monster Slayer high enough to prevent Teleportation, with SS, and Alert.

2) Arcane Archer Fighter.
Take at least Seeking Shot and Piercing Shot.
Can be combined with either Ranger (above) or Paladin.
***********
As for Warlocks, unless you're going for Eldritch Spear Invocation with Spell Sniper feat for maximum Ranged antics, and at least 3rd level (Blade) for Force damage - it's not worth it, IMO.
Devil's Sight is nice, though.
*********
Homebrewing: for Paladins: Convert the 3x feat "Ranged Smite" to 5e, usable with any ranged attack.
Maybe with +1 Dex, max 20?

[Wizard_Lizard]

I have a murderhobo pc in the wings in case my current pc dies. Subtly threatning the dm. He is a goliath barbarian with maxed con dex and str (3 on cha 10 on wis and something like 5 on int) ac of 22 thanks to unarmoured defence and a shield. Wields a warhammer.
He is Chaotic Evil and thinks that only the strngest should survive. You know the flaws that you chooe with your background? He has all of the soldier ones, but to him they aren't flaws but characterstics he admires! he even made it into my signature! HEAR HIS NAME AND TREMBLE FOR HE IS KAZAHARAD AKAZTKL!!!!!

[Great Dragon]

@Wizard_Lizard: see my post in the Bugbear thread.

Also, remember that your foes can stay at range or for those stuck in melee using the Dodge action is the best counter strategy.
They just keep their distance and don't Attack you and do their best to not get hit for a round, and you lose Rage. forgot that as long as you Attack (always keep a javelin/bow handy), you're good.

I think the following would make a great Murder-hobo
Boci (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/member.php?37562-Boci) made an Assassin Rogue/Moon Druid that specializes in getting in where people don't expect.

Minimum level to be effective, would be 3 Rogue/2 Druid.
*Use disguise kit to get near location. Shift to Tiny size to get into the location and locate the target in less than an hour, find a hidden spot nearby and Shift back to Humanoid form and shoot/stab target for Sneak Attack and full Assassin benefits, Bonus Action Shift to Tiny size again, and escape in less than an hour.
If caught in the act, BA shift to Brown Bear and fight to get out.*

[Wizard_Lizard]

I chose that for flavour.

[MilkmanDanimal]

Reasonably simply and melee only; Half-Orc Bear Totem Barbarian/Champion with GWM and a Great Axe. Three levels of Barbarian for the resistance to all but Psychic damage, then at least five Champion levels. You're attacking recklessly every attack, and critting 10% of the time. If you crit or kill something, GWM gives you a Bonus Action attack, and then you have Action Surge. Since you've got the Great Weapon fighting style, you're rerolling 1s and 2s on that d12, plus, as a Half-Orc, rolling an extra d12 with every single one of those crits. It's very, very murderhobo-ish.

[Great Dragon]

@MilkmanDanimal: very nice.
Plus, the Half-Orc gets to not-die once, for that chance at just. one. more. attack!!

A Half-Orc 15th level Ancients Paladin can do that twice!!!