"The moment you realize...."

[jaappleton]

What are your favorite moments from the table where you, or everyone else, had a massive realization about something that totally changed the flow of a battle?

(I'd like to keep it strictly to fights, because story moments are a whole different ballgame)

Just last night, I pulled off a stunning moment. Possibly an all-timer for me.

Playing Curse of Strahd, and we get to Baba Lysaga. We're level 4. I'll leave it at that, I won't say what she's capable of. If you've played it, you know. You know what she's capable of.

My DM allowed me to play a Lore Wizard, who was introduced moments before. (Save your Lore Wizard comments, my table can handle it)
He was waiting for the party in the mansion. Announces he's been waiting for the group to arrive, because he needed help taking her out. So together, they walk to her.

And we see her. She's in front of us. 15ft away.

Me: "I cast Hold Person.... using my Lore Wizard's ability to alter the targeted saving throw. I target her Dexterity."
DM: -rolls- "She fails the save."
Me, to rules-knowing fellow player: "I'd like you to explain to the rest of the party what happens when a paralyzed target makes a Dexterity save."
Fellow Player: "...They auto- OH MY GOD."
DM: ".......oh ****. Whoa. That's-"
Everyone else: "What's happening?!"
Fellow player: "EVERYONE ATTACK NOW! EXPLAIN LATER!"
Me: :smallcool:

[Zhorn]

Is it wrong that this is my first thought on reading that title?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T8vzTzeLRZk

[Chronos]

So, your big realization was just how broken Lore Wizard is?

[Naanomi]

(Save your Lore Wizard comments, my table can handle it)
Ok... *reads story of blatantly and intentionally demonstrating exploitation of subclass features* oh... huh

[MrStabby]

Struggling to reconcile the idea that your table can handle the lore wizard with the fact that they would need this explained to them.

If this isn't obvious to the table then I doubt they have the system mastery to be even remotely in the same ballpark as someone who chooses to play a Lore Wizard.

[Unoriginal]

Appears just before a boss fight, in a spooky area, and trivialize it...

So you got to experience being a Dark Soul 1 summon NPC?

[Tanarii]

Ok... *reads story of blatantly and intentionally demonstrating exploitation of subclass features* oh... huh
Not to mention this stereotypical "let me tell a story" thread (even to the point of doing the "tell me your story" disguise) doesn't even make sense to someone that has no clue how UA content works in the first place.

[Unoriginal]

Not to mention this stereotypical "let me tell a story" thread (even to the point of doing the "tell me your story" disguise) doesn't even make sense to someone that has no clue how UA content works in the first place.

Also, there was no massive realization that changed the battle. OP did what he intended to do all along, and the other players just reacted to it.

[jaappleton]

Way to crucify me. Goodness.

Did everyone at my table have fun with it? Yes. Did my DM mind? No. In fact, he was laughing as everyone realized what had occurred when I cast Hold Person.

So, can my table handle it? Yeah, I’d say so.

Geez, thought I was on GitP, not ENWorld...

[Yunru]

Geez, thought I was on GitP, not ENWorld...
Hey, I resent that!

...
On ENWorld we burn people, like the Vikings did. Much more civilised.

[sithlordnergal]

Ehh, that's less of a realization then I thought it would be. I was thinking it would be something along the lines of "Everyone realized that Tasha's Hideous Laughter is the strongest Enchantment spell in the game. Cause it can be used on Elementals, some Constructs, a majority of the Monstrosities, and almost every undead except Zombies"

[jaappleton]

Ehh, that's less of a realization then I thought it would be. I was thinking it would be something along the lines of "Everyone realized that Tasha's Hideous Laughter is the strongest Enchantment spell in the game. Cause it can be used on Elementals, some Constructs, a majority of the Monstrosities, and almost every undead except Zombies"

Well everyone is supposed to be encouraged to add their own!

I did have a good realization about a spell awhile back:

Spiritual Weapon doesn’t vanish if you fall unconscious. Not Concentration, so it just hangs out until the duration ends if you’re unable to command it.

[Callak_Remier]

That Moment when, i Realized i locked a Doppleganger in the same room with the recently widowed Baroness.

[Phoenix042]

I think me and my group didn't fully have a handle on just how powerful Commander's Strike could be in the right moment...


Like the moment when my fighter ordered the assassin to attack again during the surprise round against the hydra...

Then used it literally the next round on the Vengeance paladin, who got to make his massive, greatsword swinging GWM attack as a reaction with advantage, and smite...

And he crit.

I'm just saying, if my sword and board, protection-style fighter had used that attack and bonus action for a shove/attack combo instead, that would probably have been a TINSY bit less effective... against the huge hydra...

They both did like 80 damage.

People have WAY too little love for the support fighter maneuvers. The guides all rated Commander's Strike black. Silly guides.

[MaxWilson]

Fellow player: "EVERYONE ATTACK NOW! EXPLAIN LATER!"
Me: :smallcool:

Okay, this part I don't get. Why the urgency? I thought this was going to be a story about how you realized that Baby Yaga-expy was auto-paralyzed for the duration (cannot succeed on her Dex save to overcome paralyzation, because she's paralyzed) and how the PCs suddenly relaxed and started laughing while they tied her up or something.

From where I stand this looks like a story about players failing to realize something hilarious.

[ImproperJustice]

I suppose to get things back on track:

The moment when our party figured out in against the Giants it was to our advantage to battle the giant INSIDE their own stronghold.

See, outside we tried so hard to create defensive positions that they easily bypassed via size and muscle.

But inside their own homes?

Their own furniture, doors, and walls give us the cover a d protection we need and they are the ones having to navigate difficult / cluttered terrain.

[qube]

Playing Curse of Strahd, and we get to Baba Lysaga. We're level 4. I'll leave it at that, I won't say what she's capable of. If you've played it, you know. You know what she's capable of.

...

My DM allowed me to play a Lore Wizard, who was introduced moments before. (Save your Lore Wizard comments, my table can handle it)
...

Me, to rules-knowing fellow player: "I'd like you to explain to the rest of the party what happens when a paralyzed target makes a Dexterity save."
Me: :smallcool:
DM: slow claps


"The moment you realize...."

... You just killed one of the VERY few people the Dark Lord master Strahd Von Zarovich has some form of emotional connection to.

I shall reward you, one small, wooded cup.
It's more then enough to fit what will be left of you once Strahd is through with you.

[Unoriginal]

DM: slow claps


"The moment you realize...."

... You just killed one of the VERY few people the Dark Lord master Strahd Von Zarovich has some form of emotional connection to.

I shall reward you, one small, wooded cup.
It's more then enough to fit what will be left of you once Strahd is through with you.

Strahd steals the Lore Wizard's spellbook and learn how to Lore Wizard.

[Lance Tankmen]

DM: slow claps


"The moment you realize...."

... You just killed one of the VERY few people the Dark Lord master Strahd Von Zarovich has some form of emotional connection to.

I shall reward you, one small, wooded cup.
It's more then enough to fit what will be left of you once Strahd is through with you.

i thought he didnt know she existed?

[Damon_Tor]

Well here's mine. It's from 3.something, but that's not overly relevant:

I'm playing a fighter in a campaign that had become rather spell-heavy. We we were hired by a local noble of some rank or another to rescue his daughter from this cult that kidnapped her to use in some ritual to summon their dark god into the world. Pretty standard.

We approach the site of the ritual as the cosmic alignment is approaching and the evil cultists are doing their thing, their virgin sacrifice chained to an altar and in some kind of trance.

All the casters in the party (at this point everyone except me) buffs themselves with flight and haste and flies into battle like the Justice League while I slowly huff and puff my way towards the altar. The enemy cultists are spellcasters too, so they rise into the air to meet them. There are some token skeletons for me to hack through. I appreciated the effort.

So eventually I make way to the altar, and my guy is starting to intuit that the good guys are losing the fight, and it's up to me to stop the end of the world. I try to cut the chains and shatter my sword. OOC I'm aware the DM intends for this encounter to end in failure: he's already started planning a continuation of the story 100 years in the future in a world ruled by the dark god being summoned. But I have every intention of going down fighting.

I call out to one of my wizard friends: "Hey, so you called it a virgin sacrifice before."

"Yeah?"

"Is that important?"

His eyes go wide "Holy ****!"

"I pull down my pants."

"Protect the fighter!"

The battle suddenly shifts to the cultists trying desperately to use their now limited magical resources to stopping me from... from doing what had to be done. Now I had, and still do not have, any inclination towards ERP. "How do you want to handle this?" I ask the DM, who is staring slack-jawed at the vinyl mat in front of him. We decided that the "act" itself was off camera, would take 1 full minute, and the particulars weren't to be discussed. "Does that include..." someone started to ask, and the DM shot them a look and they shut up. So there I was, I guess spending a minute trying to get an erection, while evil wizards tried to cockblock me.

The **** was indeed unblocked and after a minute had elapsed the deed was done. The sacrifice no longer met the criteria and remaining cultists were forcefully imploded by their evil master as punishment for their failure.

[Yunru]

You got lucky. They might of just gone "Oh well, plan B. Sorry Steve." and then axed one of their own.

[Tanarii]

Way to crucify me. Goodness.Personally I was just stabbing you a spear to see if it was blood or water.

Yeah sorry about that. But I didn't understand the story. Still didn't until ...


I thought this was going to be a story about how you realized that Baby Yaga-expy was auto-paralyzed for the duration (cannot succeed on her Dex save to overcome paralyzation, because she's paralyzed) and [...]
Oh. Now I get it.

[Damon_Tor]

You got lucky. They might of just gone "Oh well, plan B. Sorry Steve." and then axed one of their own.

IIRC, there was a bloodline thing involved as well. It wasn't any old virgin that would do the trick. And I'm reasonably sure it had to be a woman because she was supposed to "birth forth" the dark god.

[Laserlight]

While I was tanking the undead BBEG and getting beaten to single digit HP, someone cast Magic Circle around the undead BBEG. And then we realized Spiritual Guardians ought to still affect him, and he couldn't get away from it. A fight that we expected to be near-TPK became "we stand around and watch the BBEG char and burn."

[Imbalance]

When the party's sorceress tossed a 6"x6"x12" wooden box into the air and uttered a command word, my fighter didn't realize why she wanted him to duck until the 24' ship crashed down on the undead horde before him, dealing bludgeoning damage aplenty and trapping them in the sand beneath so we could focus on their commander.

[Misterwhisper]

1. Doppelgänger whorehouse

2. The moment our groups realized how pointless rogues were in 5e.

[JNAProductions]

1. Doppelgänger whorehouse

2. The moment our groups realized how pointless rogues were in 5e.

Explain number 2.

[Contrast]

While I was tanking the undead BBEG and getting beaten to single digit HP, someone cast Magic Circle around the undead BBEG. And then we realized Spiritual Guardians ought to still affect him, and he couldn't get away from it. A fight that we expected to be near-TPK became "we stand around and watch the BBEG char and burn."

You're aware Magic Circle has a 1 min casting time yeah? I don't think I've ever even had a combat last 10 rounds. I feel if it was almost a TPK its possibly because one member of the party spent the entire fight casting Magic Circle rather than contributing :smallbiggrin:


Got a message earlier today from a person playing a wizard who been reviewing spells who just realised it doesn't offer a save (unfortunately we're already level 5 in that game so not much use anymore but hey, he knows for next time now :smalltongue:).

[Chronos]

Quoth Imbalance:

When the party's sorceress tossed a 6"x6"x12" wooden box into the air and uttered a command word, my fighter didn't realize why she wanted him to duck until the 24' ship crashed down on the undead horde before him, dealing bludgeoning damage aplenty and trapping them in the sand beneath so we could focus on their commander.
Been there, done that, just about.

DM: You find a small wooden box, with three words written in it in Draconic.
<my ranger and the wizard are the party members who speak Draconic>
Me: OK, what are the words?
DM: "Minnow", "Revenge", and "Return".
Me: Huh, OK, I say "Minnow".
DM: The box unfolds before your eyes, and turns into a small boat.
Me: Oh, OK. "Return".
DM: It folds back up into a box.
Wizard: "Revenge"
Everyone else at table, except the DM: Noooo!

[Lance Tankmen]

1. Doppelgänger whorehouse

2. The moment our groups realized how pointless rogues were in 5e.

ditto on the explanation on number 2 ?

[Misterwhisper]

ditto on the explanation on number 2 ?

They are supposed to be the skill guys but lore bards are better just about at everything


The only thing a rogue has going for it is reliable talent.

[jaappleton]

ditto on the explanation on number 2 ?

Yeah what’s up with that?

[JNAProductions]

They are supposed to be the skill guys but lore bards are better just about at everything


The only thing a rogue has going for it is reliable talent.

Couple of things:

Rogues get more skills and more expertises, earlier than the bard.
They're much better at killing things than the bard.
And they get RELIABLE FLIPPING TALENT! How can you be so dismissive of that?

[Telwar]

Admittedly, this was back in 4e, but I'd made a thief rogue that I'd multiclassed into assassin for one of the paragon paths (I forget the name, but it made shadowy throwing knives). This was the Essentials version, which was reliant on basic attacks and had things to adjust the basic attack and add onto it, instead of using the rogue power set.

And then I realized, in the middle of the first fight we had, I could generate combat advantage on my own, and instead of having to flank something, I could do ranged sneak attacks with impunity. So now instead of being a standard melee rogue, I could run around, throwing shadow knives at things with impunity. It made the character a lot more fun in a fight.


A few weeks ago, a friend was having us playtest her custom setting, and playing a warlock, realizing exactly how useful hex is when the monsters tend to make Strength or Dexterity checks. Giant octopus likes to stealth on up? Disadvantage on Dex checks, so No Stealth For You. Bobbitt worm likes to grab things into its tunnel using grappling? Disadvantage on Strength checks!

[zinycor]

They are supposed to be the skill guys but lore bards are better just about at everything


The only thing a rogue has going for it is reliable talent.

Rogues are pretty much one of the best designed classes on 5e. They get their expertise sooner, need no rest for their abilities, deal a ton of damage, have lot of things to do outside of combat scenarios and have a lot of defensive options.

I believe your gropup is very wrong on this idea of rogues not being good.

[Chronos]

Bards start off with one less skill than rogues, but by third level, if you go Lore, they have more. And they get the same number of expertises. Rogues do get their expertise sooner, but the bard still catches up at a lower level than Reliable Talent. And yes, Reliable Talent is great, but having to wait 11 levels before your character is able to fulfill their primary role is a real slog.

On the other hand, rogues get Sneak Attack. And bards get full spellcasting, with the ability to add any spell they want to their list. That's not a very favorable comparison for the rogue.

[zinycor]

Bards start off with one less skill than rogues, but by third level, if you go Lore, they have more. And they get the same number of expertises. Rogues do get their expertise sooner, but the bard still catches up at a lower level than Reliable Talent. And yes, Reliable Talent is great, but having to wait 11 levels before your character is able to fulfill their primary role is a real slog.

On the other hand, rogues get Sneak Attack. And bards get full spellcasting, with the ability to add any spell they want to their list. That's not a very favorable comparison for the rogue.

It is favorable

[Keravath]

Okay, this part I don't get. Why the urgency? I thought this was going to be a story about how you realized that Baby Yaga-expy was auto-paralyzed for the duration (cannot succeed on her Dex save to overcome paralyzation, because she's paralyzed) and how the PCs suddenly relaxed and started laughing while they tied her up or something.

From where I stand this looks like a story about players failing to realize something hilarious.

Thanks for the clarification ... I had missed that aspect of the OP's post. Basically, the target was held for one full minute because they auto fail strength and dex saves so a hold person cast against a dex save becomes critically broken. So there was actually no rush since every attack has advantage and any hit within 5' would be a critical and it would last for a full minute.

I can see why the lore wizard was never approved for regular play, that one feature is sufficient to deem the archetype completely broken.

[DarkKnightJin]

Admittedly, this was back in 4e, but I'd made a thief rogue that I'd multiclassed into assassin for one of the paragon paths (I forget the name, but it made shadowy throwing knives). This was the Essentials version, which was reliant on basic attacks and had things to adjust the basic attack and add onto it, instead of using the rogue power set.

And then I realized, in the middle of the first fight we had, I could generate combat advantage on my own, and instead of having to flank something, I could do ranged sneak attacks with impunity. So now instead of being a standard melee rogue, I could run around, throwing shadow knives at things with impunity. It made the character a lot more fun in a fight.


A few weeks ago, a friend was having us playtest her custom setting, and playing a warlock, realizing exactly how useful hex is when the monsters tend to make Strength or Dexterity checks. Giant octopus likes to stealth on up? Disadvantage on Dex checks, so No Stealth For You. Bobbitt worm likes to grab things into its tunnel using grappling? Disadvantage on Strength checks!

My Naga Paladin has Hex from Magic Initiate, to try and 'lock down' a BBEG for the day by cursing their Str or Dex, whichever seems higher, to make sure they have a hard time staying 'unhugged'.
As in, not Restrained by his Constrict.

[DarkKnightJin]

Thanks for the clarification ... I had missed that aspect of the OP's post. Basically, the target was held for one full minute because they auto fail strength and dex saves so a hold person cast against a dex save becomes critically broken. So there was actually no rush since every attack has advantage and any hit within 5' would be a critical and it would last for a full minute.

I can see why the lore wizard was never approved for regular play, that one feature is sufficient to deem the archetype completely broken.

Seems that a good restriction on that would be to allow only subbing out mental saves for another mental save, and physical saves for another physical save.
You'd probably get Int save Hold Person and Str save Fireballs a lot, but hey. It's a lot less borked than Str or Dex save Hold Person.

[Wizard_Lizard]

ok, so I am about to roll for a random encounter.
Everyone is lvl 1.
Accidentally rolls a kracken.
On a lvl 1 party.
Who have never played before.
I look at it's stats
oh no I whisper
I describ it rising from the ocean.
My poor stupid party don't decide o run, but instead attack.
the sorcerer elf: wait, this ship has cannons right?
the range elf: How muh dmage do those do?
I look, somehing like 1d10 damage per hit
the ship has a crew of about 10 commoners and a DMPC gnome wizard.
Elf sorcerer: everyone man the cannons!
auffice to say, the cannons were mysteriously tipped ovdrboard the next night, and the PC'S all gained two levels.
apart from the paladin, he drowned in his full plate armour.

[Marywn]

That you could actually use Reckless attack more than once per turn.

[jaappleton]

Seems that a good restriction on that would be to allow only subbing out mental saves for another mental save, and physical saves for another physical save.
You'd probably get Int save Hold Person and Str save Fireballs a lot, but hey. It's a lot less borked than Str or Dex save Hold Person.

What my table is likely going to do is this:

You can alter Mental saves with other Mental stats, and Physical saves can target Physical. Hold Person traditionally targets Wisdom, so I’d also be able to target Charisma or Intelligence.

Fireball targets Dex, and now it can also target Strength or Con.

Note that the ability to do this is once per short rest, it’s not an at will thing.

[MagneticKitty]

So the bard uses hypnotic pattern on the dragon mid flight. And the dm doesn't legendary resistance it, figuring it will fall and wake up. And our wizard is like, I cast feather fall.
Nothing in the spell says the target must be willing or it can't be used on enemies. We then all prepped to clobber the dragon.

[ProsecutorGodot]

My party has a bad habit of being too afraid to get hit, so I rolled up a character to deal with that.

Enter the Redemption Paladin with twice as many hit points as the next most durable member of the party. I'm regularly taking 100+ damage a session and a short rest is more than plenty to heal back from that thanks to a Periapt of Wound Closure.

They're still a bit spooked about things but tend not to panic as much when I shrug off an 80 damage death ray from a death tyrant.

[Nightgaun7]

ok, so I am about to roll for a random encounter.
Everyone is lvl 1.
Accidentally rolls a kracken.
On a lvl 1 party.
Who have never played before.
I look at it's stats
oh no I whisper
I describ it rising from the ocean.
My poor stupid party don't decide o run, but instead attack.
the sorcerer elf: wait, this ship has cannons right?
the range elf: How muh dmage do those do?
I look, somehing like 1d10 damage per hit
the ship has a crew of about 10 commoners and a DMPC gnome wizard.
Elf sorcerer: everyone man the cannons!
auffice to say, the cannons were mysteriously tipped ovdrboard the next night, and the PC'S all gained two levels.
apart from the paladin, he drowned in his full plate armour.

If this is not just a joke story this is frankly horrendous GMing.

[Wizard_Lizard]

If this is not just a joke story this is frankly horrendous GMing.

(in a tone of withering scorn) Why thank you.

In my defence this was my second session EVER dming, and my only dnd expierience prior were half a dozen sessions as a player, and about 100 hours poring over the rulebooks.

[jaappleton]

(in a tone of withering scorn) Why thank you.

In my defence this was my second session EVER dming, and my only dnd expierience prior were half a dozen sessions as a player, and about 100 hours poring over the rulebooks.

As long as you learned from it.

Anyone who doesn’t continue to learn, they’re doing it wrong. Because nobody is the perfect, best GM ever. Same for players.

If you think you can’t improve, that’s when you’ve messed up.

[JNAProductions]

As long as you learned from it.

Anyone who doesn’t continue to learn, they’re doing it wrong. Because nobody is the perfect, best GM ever. Same for players.

If you think you can’t improve, that’s when you’ve messed up.

Yeah, agreed 100%.

I was a crap DM when I started, and I'm on my way to adequate now! :P

But really, I'd rather play a campaign with a decent DM who listens to their players and learns from their mistakes, than an amazing DM who thinks they're perfect.

[KorvinStarmast]

If this is not just a joke story this is frankly horrendous GMing. No it wasn't.
It was an amazing lesson learned and the players using their wits to get out of a seemingly unwinnable situation.
I'll bet the players had fun with it.

[Unoriginal]

No it wasn't.
It was an amazing lesson learned and the players using their wits to get out of a seemingly unwinnable situation.
I'll bet the players had fun with it.

And then the DM DM-fiated away the equipment that let them win, so to avoid a repeat of victory through wit-using.


Not sure if the paladin died just because they were wearing armor while swimming or other factors were in play.

[KorvinStarmast]

And then the DM DM-fiated away the equipment that let them win, so to avoid a repeat of victory through wit-using. Ships sink, bad luck happens, and they got Two Levels out of it! :smallbiggrin: The "BadWrongFun" responses don't sit well with me.
Not sure if the paladin died just because they were wearing armor while swimming or other factors were in play. Good question.

[Unoriginal]

Ships sink, bad luck happens, and they got Two Levels out of it! :smallbiggrin: The "BadWrongFun" responses don't sit well with me.

The ship didn't sink, though, the cannons were just thrown overboard mysteriously. I get it doesn't sit well with you, but "that was clever. You're not doing that again" doesn't sit well with me.


That being said, even with cleverness and cannons, I'm still puzzled how they managed to take on a kraken.


Krakens are geniuses and can just swim under the boat and tear it open.

[The Kool]

The ship didn't sink, though, the cannons were just thrown overboard mysteriously. I get it doesn't sit well with you, but "that was clever. You're not doing that again" doesn't sit well with me.

"That was clever, but if I let you keep doing that I will be unable to challenge you from here on out, so I need to do something for this to not get boring." Nothing wrong there. DMs do it ALL the time. Was it done in almost the most clunky and obvious way possible? Yes. But hey, he's learning.

[Desteplo]

Snip.

...So your solution was rape?

[KorvinStarmast]

...So your solution was rape? I think you missed the point of what happened there. This "solution" saved the (cult problem) and the person chained to the altar who was being sacrificed which means dead - ends up alive. Still not their best day ever. Some restitution/atonement is probably in order during the next scene.
Looks like a "lesser of two evils" deal there ... and a little bit of creative thinking.

We we were hired by a local noble of some rank or another to rescue his daughter from this cult that kidnapped her to use in some ritual to summon their dark god into the world.
You'll note that a few sentences later we get to the whole "save the world by stopping the sacrifice ..."
And the DM let it play out.

It's a game.

That scenario does point to something I no longer have in my games as DM: virgin sacrifice as a "thing" for evil people to do. I stopped doing that when I began running dungeons and dragons for my kids (early teens/teens). I did not feel that it was age appropriate ... and then I realized that the trope was utterly not necessary. So I stopped using it. Have not missed it.

[Karnitis]

I think you missed the point of what happened there. This "solution" saved the (cult problem) and the person chained to the altar who was being sacrificed which means dead - ends up alive. Still not their best day ever. Some restitution/atonement is probably in order during the next scene.
Looks like a "lesser of two evils" deal there ... and a little bit of creative thinking.
And the DM let it play out.

It's a game.

Agreed. Don't get me wrong, that's a little f'd up considering she was a virgin so presumably she was saving it for her husband or bar minstrel or something... but if this happened at my table, most of us are CN and would have seen "stopping evil villain" more important than "save a backwater noble" and would have just murdered her. So, yeah, alive is better than dead. Assuming the fighter couldn't break the chains anyway.

That said, note for evil future villains: Make your sacrifices wear chastity belts.

[Damon_Tor]

...So your solution was rape?

The other options were to kill her myself or to let the Dark God burst out of her like a xenomorph and take over the world. Do you see another option?

[Unoriginal]

The other options were to kill her myself or to let the Dark God burst out of her like a xenomorph and take over the world. Do you see another option?

Was she able to express which option she prefered?

Alternatively, since it was possible to gain time to do stuff mid-battle, would getting her out of the altar possible?

[Maan]

That scenario does point to something I no longer have in my games as DM: virgin sacrifice as a "thing" for evil people to do. I stopped doing that when I began running dungeons and dragons for my kids (early teens/teens). I did not feel that it was age appropriate ... and then I realized that the trope was utterly not necessary. So I stopped using it. Have not missed it.
Virgin sacrifice has such an old-school feeling to it that it's almost romantic :biggrin:

[The Kool]

The other options were to kill her myself or to let the Dark God burst out of her like a xenomorph and take over the world. Do you see another option?

"Particulars aren't to be discussed." I choose to assume consent was acquired, because her options were 'Die', 'Die', or 'get it on momentarily with this guy you just met'. Not a huge stretch of the imagination.

[KorvinStarmast]

Virgin sacrifice has such an old-school feeling to it that it's almost romantic :biggrin: I guess so, in a Quentin Tarantino style of True Romance. :smallyuk: Also figuring into my decision was my wife's jaundiced eye being cast on the game in general, so I just avoid some things (very few demon summonings, for example) since she still carries with her the early 80's hysteria against D&D ... not worth fighting about.
Marriage is far more important than game.

[The Kool]

so I just avoid some things (very few demon summonings, for example) since she still carries with her the early 80's hysteria against D&D

Wait... Would she enjoy the chance to put a stop to some kind of demonic ritual? Obviously asking her to participate in or stand back and watch one would be problematic, but what about playing the Paladin and rushing in to save the day?

[KorvinStarmast]

Wait... Would she enjoy the chance to put a stop to some kind of demonic ritual? Obviously asking her to participate in or stand back and watch one would be problematic, but what about playing the Paladin and rushing in to save the day? She doesn't look at it the way your or I would. Her view point is more like "Why is demon summoning even part of you having fun? What's wrong with you? Haven't you played regular games that don't involved demon summoning?"

She played a few times as a cleric with our kids, but all in all (she was going to school/college at the time) it just didn't "click" for her. Board games/card games are what she preferred for family game time.
Rule Zero is: Happy Wife, Happy Life. :smallwink:

[Nightgaun7]

(in a tone of withering scorn) Why thank you.


I don't feel very withered.


No it wasn't.
It was an amazing lesson learned and the players using their wits to get out of a seemingly unwinnable situation.
I'll bet the players had fun with it.

You don't need to lie to make him feel better.

[The Kool]

She doesn't look at it the way your or I would. Her view point is more like "Why is demon summoning even part of you having fun? What's wrong with you? Haven't you played regular games that don't involved demon summoning?"

She played a few times as a cleric with our kids, but all in all (she was going to school/college at the time) it just didn't "click" for her. Board games/card games are what she preferred for family game time.
Rule Zero is: Happy Wife, Happy Life. :smallwink:

Fair enough.

[JackPhoenix]

The other options were to kill her myself or to let the Dark God burst out of her like a xenomorph and take over the world. Do you see another option?

Considering the fighter managed to survive 10 rounds of focus fire from multiple enemy spellcasters (In 3.5!) not only alive, but still able to "do the deed", I have serious doubts about the necessity of that solution.

[Zuras]

Our party had a bit of a moment when we were rescuing an NPC from a ship we believed to be guarded by a kraken. We overcame the crew and traps, retrieved the NPC, and were flying merrily away on our sky ship.

Then we realize the DM is still furiously making notes...

One player asks “uh, what is the weather like?”

DM responds “there is a light rain and the clouds hang in thick sheets only a few hundred feet above the sea”.

DM smiles.

Player says “I ask the skyship captain if he can go any faster”.

The (high level spellcaster) Kraken emerges from the clouds right in front of the skyship.

[Wizard_Lizard]

Our party had a bit of a moment when we were rescuing an NPC from a ship we believed to be guarded by a kraken. We overcame the crew and traps, retrieved the NPC, and were flying merrily away on our sky ship.

Then we realize the DM is still furiously making notes...

One player asks “uh, what is the weather like?”

DM responds “there is a light rain and the clouds hang in thick sheets only a few hundred feet above the sea”.

DM smiles.

Player says “I ask the skyship captain if he can go any faster”.

The (high level spellcaster) Kraken emerges from the clouds right in front of the skyship.

Been in a similar situation.

[Avista]

The moment our DM realized...

I played a paladin back in 3.5e. We were fighting a ghost ship. I forgot what spell it was, but it was something like smite. (You cast a buff on a weapon and make it stupid powerful. Then again, 3.5e was crazy)

Party member: Can you cast that on a cannon!?
Me: ...I don't know. 'looks at DM'
DM: 'Has already watched his ghost ship be obliterated by the monk, and concedes there's no salvaging it' ...sure.
Me: 'casts spell on cannon, we proceed to win the fight'

[Wizard_Lizard]

And then the DM DM-fiated away the equipment that let them win, so to avoid a repeat of victory through wit-using.


Not sure if the paladin died just because they were wearing armor while swimming or other factors were in play.

He tried to jump nto yhe kracken and missed.
Then he failed a few athletics saves.

[Segev]

Post-combat, an NPC had been crushed and was not breathing, but was still potentially alive. The key was getting him to medical attention without brain damage due to lack of oxygen. I cast a spell called "Breathe Without Air," which the DM had never thought to use for life-saving before. (Frankly, I'd expected it NOT to work, because it is "breathe without air," not, "you don't need to breathe," but I wasn't going to argue with her being impressed by it and letting it work to save the NPC's life!)

[KorvinStarmast]

You don't need to lie to make him feel better.
No lying involved. Your attitude is noted for future reference.

[Damon_Tor]

That scenario does point to something I no longer have in my games as DM: virgin sacrifice as a "thing" for evil people to do. I stopped doing that when I began running dungeons and dragons for my kids (early teens/teens). I did not feel that it was age appropriate ... and then I realized that the trope was utterly not necessary. So I stopped using it. Have not missed it.

In this case there was a deliberate religious allusion; to bring a God onto the mortal plane, you have to birth him as a Man, which requires an immaculate conception. I don't feel like it was inserted into the game thoughtlessly simply because it's something "evil guys do".

[GlenSmash!]

Party of 5 at 5th level fighting an Adult Black Dragon in an underground lake. It got the drop on us and we all took some acid damage, though those who made the save took less.

The tides quickly change when the Dragon submerged in the lake , making it ripe for getting restrained by our Moon Druid in Giant Octopus form. A well placed Hex by the Warlock made it very difficult for the dragon to break free.

The rest of us start laying on the damage.

Eventually it broke free and fled. We were a bit frustrated at not being able to put it down, but felt like big damn heroes for whipping its but. Edit: Especially since i play with a lot of new players, and this was their first Dragon fight. Everyone played well and nobody did anything stupid.

[KorvinStarmast]

In this case there was a deliberate religious allusion; to bring a God onto the mortal plane, you have to birth him as a Man, which requires an immaculate conception. I don't feel like it was inserted into the game thoughtlessly simply because it's something "evil guys do". I appreciate that, and I get the allusion. I have a pretty long catalog of speculative fiction reading that includes that "virgin sacrifice trope" done well and done badly. (Beginning in the late 1960's). I discovered that it can be overdone.
Glad that you guys got enjoyment out of it in play.
For me, the trope is a bit overdone. That's a matter of personal taste, not an absolute truth of life. :smallsmile:

[Segev]

I have a character who is a hundreds-of-years-old necromancer with a flawed crystal ball that must be bathed in virgin's blood (well, have virgin's blood poured over it) to function. This, and other magical uses for the material, is one reason why he is, himself, still a virgin. (He was a nerd's nerd as a teen and thus missed prime hormonal-urges years by having no girls around, and hasn't seen a need to indulge those petty urges since, so that helps.) He's not undead because he abuses youth potions of his own design which have their own annoying drawbacks that he prefers not to go into.

It amuses me because one of his reasons is, "Nobody comes after the evil necromancer for using virgin's blood when it's his own blood." Also, it's easier than hunting down virgins; he knows the pedigree of his supply.


I kind-of wonder if that can be used to turn a scenario paradigm around, when the party realizes that the "evil" sorcerer is actually doing nothing wrong, despite "using virgin's blood" and a few other really nasty-sounding things that are perfectly innocent because he's not hurting anybody (well, other than himself, in controlled and deliberate fashion related to his profession).

[Yunru]

So playing this module and there's these cultists on a floating castle.
The leader has fallen for my Compelled Duel.
Then we realise that grappling the leader and throwing them off of the castle doesn't end the Compelled Duel.

[Lunali]

Thanks for the clarification ... I had missed that aspect of the OP's post. Basically, the target was held for one full minute because they auto fail strength and dex saves so a hold person cast against a dex save becomes critically broken. So there was actually no rush since every attack has advantage and any hit within 5' would be a critical and it would last for a full minute.

I can see why the lore wizard was never approved for regular play, that one feature is sufficient to deem the archetype completely broken.

It's not that broken, it doesn't change ALL saves for a spell from one to another, it changes A save from one to another. Now if I had been DM, I probably would have let them do this, once, because its fun, but I would also let them know that if they tried it again, the repeated saves would still be WIS.


My realization, contracting lycanthropy makes you completely immune to all attacks by the lycanthropes in the MM unless they start improvising attacks or picking up weapons that work against themselves.

[Yakmala]

The moment I realized that the seemingly unstoppable Bladesinger that was tearing through my carefully prepared encounters like a hot knife through butter had Charisma as his dump stat... And my BBEG had Banish...

[ProsecutorGodot]

It's not that broken, it doesn't change ALL saves for a spell from one to another, it changes A save from one to another. Now if I had been DM, I probably would have let them do this, once, because its fun, but I would also let them know that if they tried it again, the repeated saves would still be WIS.
I believe this is actually incorrect, for a few reasons.

Firstly, the Lore Wizard feature in question doesn't say "A saving throw" it says "The saving throw". Strictly RAW, the ability makes any saving throw associated with the spell you've altered target the same saving throw. If you mean the line "Once you change a saving throw in this way you can't do so again until a short or long rest" then that would be in reference to changing the saving throw associated with Hold Person and not the single saving throw they make when you cast Hold Person. Hold Person targets Dex now, for as long as this spell lasts.

Secondly, even if we assume the first isn't true, Hold Person uses the following wording:

Choose a humanoid that you can see within range. The target must succeed on a Wisdom saving throw or be paralyzed for the duration. At the end of each of its turns, the target can make another Wisdom saving throw. On a success, the spell ends on the target.
The use of "another" here strongly implies that if the first saving throw is made to be Dexterity, rather than Wisdom, all subsequent saves would be using Dexterity as well. It wouldn't make sense for the target to make a Dex save and then at the end of their turn make "another" Wisdom save.

[Greywander]

I was scouting out a gnoll camp and came across a cultist of Yeenoghu. Apparently I was supposed to capture and reform him. Instead, I stabbed him 27 times in the chest and threw him in the burning brazier. I thought it was pretty funny. I found it considerably less funny when I failed my next few Stealth checks, and left with a gnoll warband hot on my heels.

Also, thanks to a wild magic surge (homebrew system), I could only talk in animal noises until I rested.

I meet the rest of my party halfway between the town the gnolls destroyed and the gnoll camp (our destination for another quest), and use my GOOlock powers to explain to my sister (IRL and in-game) the situation. Other party members are three NPCs, one of which is a child and can't fight. So it's 4 plus a child against 30 or so gnolls, plus their 3 pet demon-hounds (leucrottas, they are important to this story), and an unspecified number of hyenas. Honestly, it was always a long shot.

We quickly set up some traps; Mold Earth and Shape Water were very helpful for this, we made some pits with ice spikes and covered the whole section in slippery, frozen dirt. On the far side of a stream, we raised some earthen barriers to hide behind, and also rigged the hillside behind us to collapse in a mud slide when my sister cast Earth Tremor. We were all attached to a tree by a rope so that we could avoid getting buried and pull ourselves up before the collapse. At this point, we know we may very well die, but gosh darn it, we're going to end the gnoll threat even if it kills us.

Gnolls arrive. The first charge across our traps goes well, they end up sliding in to the pits, killing all of the hyenas and many of the melee gnolls. IIRC, we wiped out about a third of them right then and there. Gnolls wise up, start trading shots with us. (Honestly, I think my sister, the acting DM since it was just the two of us, was going easy on us.)

I should probably mention at this point that I was playing a skeleton. I'm resistant to piercing damage, but vulnerable to bludgeoning damage. Also, both my sister and I can't die unless we're killed in certain ways (fire or acid, massive damage, radiant damage, coup-de-grace from a magic weapon, etc.). (Part of the reason for this is so that we'd have an excuse to continue playing even if we both "died", so a party wipe was still undesirable, but not necessarily the end of the game.) The gnolls are shooting at us with arrows, and hey, _I'm resistant to piercing damage._ So I draw their attacks away from my party, mostly shrugging them off.

Things had been going surprisingly well, and thanks to piercing resistance it looked like we might actually win. Eventually, though, all the arrows wear me down and I drop. My sister heals me, and I'm back on my feet with very little HP left. I'm a little hazy on the specific details of what happened next, but things started going downhill very fast.

There's only a few gnolls left, and they try to run. If even one gnoll escapes, they could rebuild the warband and continue raiding. notonmywatch.jpeg
I step out from behind the barrier, raise my right hand, and utter the incantation for Misty Step. Did I mention the homebrew wild magic system? Not only does the spell fail to cast, but let's just say that you can call my character Lefty for the rest of this story. Amazingly, even though I'd just been healed from 0 HP, the resulting damage from the wild magic surge wasn't enough to knock me back down.

Disarmed (literally) and disheartened, our problems only multiplied when we realized one of the leucrottas had snuck up on us behind the hill, and was threatening the child. As we tried to deal with it, another leucrotta and a few gnolls came at us from below the hill. It was time. The rest of us scrambled up the hill using the rope while my sister triggered the mud slide. It kills the two leucrottas and all gnolls but the chieftain. It also completely buried my sister. Don't worry, though, she's undead and doesn't need to breathe (NPCs don't know this, however). We start trying to dig her out, when the chieftain comes back and starts taking shots at us again. I drop prone (disadvantage on ranged attacks made against me) and start firing cantrips back. Wait, weren't there three leucrottas? Where was the third-

It was reckless. It was stupid. One might even say it was "boneheaded" (skelepuns). We should have all died. But to our credit, we almost won. In the end, we were saved by a deus ex machina in the form of a powerful wizard who just happened to be wandering by right around the time the last leucrotta was starting to chew on my bones. When I woke up, the gnolls were all dead and everyone was safe.

Honestly, I attribute a good part of our near-success on my sister (the DM) going easy on us, but our careful prep also played a big part. Credit to the gnolls, though, sending the leucrottas around to flank us took us completely by surprise and quickly turned the battle around in their favor.

List of realizations in this scenario:
That we can use Mold Earth/Shape Water to create traps and give us a tactical advantage.
That I can soak up arrows like nothing else.
"'Tis but a scratch." "A scratch? Your arm's off!"
That going prone was a mistake.
That I forgot I could cast the Shield spell. Seriously.

Most of the realizations didn't turn things around in our favor, but instead the opposite. At first it seemed like we might actually succeed at a seemingly impossible task, but each subsequent revelation lead to things getting worse and worse. All in all, it was quite an intense fight. 10/10 would aggro gnoll warband at level 4 again.

[Avista]

We were being interrogated by the town guards on why we were surrounded by a pile of dead bodies. They weren't buying the 'bandits attacked us, self defense!' answer.

Our ranger decided to shoot the guard captain in the face.

You could hear all of our collective gasp...