melee Bard, valor or swords?

[Aleister VII]

The title says it, what college is best for a melee bard?

I honestly prefer Swords for the flourishes but valor get to use shields but then again I can just take a dip into fighter and be done.

If possible I would like to make a level 11 build that can be used in AL.

[strangebloke]

Neither one really wants to live in melee. The swords bard can handle melee better, but only by spending lots of defensive flourishes.

Neither has anything to really make their melee attacks worthwhile.

My personally recommendation would be to lead with two levels of paladin and then go swords.

[Phoenix042]

Swords is more fun in my opinion (I like maneuvers in general, though, so I'm biased).

I'm going to second the recommendation for two levels of paladin first.

Call yourself "Heavy Metal Justice"

Wield an Axe instead of a sword. String up the axe like a guitar. Get someone to enchant it to play magically amplified music when you strum it AND when you fight with it.

Compose Righteous Music with the blood of evildoers.

This is one of my all time favorite character concepts.

[Bjarkmundur]

For the Divine Smite or the proficiency + fighting style bundle?

[Aleister VII]

Mmm... I never considered paladin as I was thinking in a DEX build using a rapier but it sounds solid.

Any other suggestion? How about taking armor of agathys as one of the magical secrets? It gives me some temp. HP and hurts anyone that hits me that due to my AC isn't something hard to accomplish at all.

[Potato_Priest]

Mmm... I never considered paladin as I was thinking in a DEX build using a rapier but it sounds solid.

Any other suggestion? How about taking armor of agathys as one of the magical secrets? It gives me some temp. HP and hurts anyone that hits me that due to my AC isn't something hard to accomplish at all.

That's a pretty good plan! I might give stoneskin a glance as well, since it stacks nicely with armor of agathys.

[CTurbo]

Well Valor gets shields so that's a plus.

I think an Armor of Agathys and Spirit Guardians magic secrets combo would be really good.

[Aleister VII]

I think an Armor of Agathys and Spirit Guardians magic secrets combo would be really good.

This!

I'll bait enemies to hit my and punish them with that combo xD

[Anteros]

This!

I'll bait enemies to hit my and punish them with that combo xD

Keep in mind that any build that revolves around "I'll have my enemies do this" is going to be dependent on how cooperative your GM is. Some are going to have the enemies just avoid you and go for other targets that it doesn't hurt them to hit.

[Alexwellace]

Sword Bard with 2 levels of Hexblade is what I'm playing, level 8. Really plays into the whole cocky swashbuckler vibe I like, Captain Jack-Sparrowesque. Also my rolled stats were fairly abysmal, with my highest being a 16 and everything else either being +1 or nothing, so only relyon on CHA is essential for me.

My Sword Bard is what I'd refer to as a dodge tank. He can 1v1 almost any single opponent that uses normal attacks and doesn't force many saves. Between defensive flourish and the Shield spell my AC can jump easily into 22-25 region. And I can keep this going for 4-5 turns. And regenerate most of these resources over a short rest.

Offensively first round throw up hexblades curse. Second round throw up hex. Use dueling and a rapier. 2 attacks at d8 + CHA + Prof + d6 + d8 flourish. The build is exactly how I'd like to run a melee bard.

[Mercurias]

To answer your question, it depends on what you're looking for. Neither college really wants to live in melee, particularly at higher (11+) levels when casting Faerie Fire to give everyone in your party advantage to hit with their triple Eldritch Blasts or Glaive attacks. I'd definitely try and grab the Resilient (Con) feat for either choice.

It's worth noting that both Colleges get the ability to use weapon the character is proficient in as a baked-in feature, making Warcaster a feat that you'll probably WANT, but not necessarily a requirement to play the character.

College of Valor lends itself well to being used with melee cantrips like Green Flame Blade from your free spell choices, eventually becoming able to use a spell and then another weapon attack in the same round as a bonus action. It also gives buffs to Bardic Inspiration, allowing your party members to use it for either a straight attack roll bonus OR a damage roll bonus.

A Swords Bard is much more oriented towards dual-wielding. It doesn't even get shield proficiency. You'll likely be very selfish with your Bardic Inspiration in order to fuel your Flourishes, but your straight weapon damage will be higher, particularly should you dual-wield.

I'd personally run a Valor Bard and prioritize acquiring Booming Blade and Find Greater Steed. swoop down on your Pegasus, whack an enemy for solid DPS, and have your mount Disengage while moving away.

[Unoriginal]

IIRC the Sword is more for boosting yourself, and the Valor for boosting your friends.

[Waazraath]

When I wanted to play this concept, I ended up with a single class dex based Ancients Paladin with the Performer background. Does almost all the RP stuff a normal bard can do, while being a good melee fighter. Might not what you're looking for though.

[Talionis]

Well Valor gets shields so that's a plus.

I think an Armor of Agathys and Spirit Guardians magic secrets combo would be really good.

If you are going to do this, I would seriously suggest Lore Bard. If you use Booming Blade and Green Flame most of the time then Extra Attack is an expensive unused choice.

Lore Bard also gets access to Spirit Guardians much earlier than level ten.

Lore Bard can even spend a Inspiration and Reaction to further reduce damage to your AoA.

If you aren’t allowed to multi class then take Medium Armor Proficiency asap.

If you can multi class a level of Hexblade grabs a ton of useful spells, with Booming Blade, Green Flame, and Armor of Agathys along with medium armor and shields.

[Yuroch Kern]

I'm biased toward Valor for many reasons, but the question is do you want to melee in a group or solo? Because that's the real difference between the two. Valor starts and maintains the mosh pit with lots of buffs and Inspiration that is only for allies. Swords take out the Big Bad with DPR and Inspiration only for themselves. I envision the Sword needing a bit more healing than the Valor if they can't connect in a couple rounds, though.

[Tallytrev813]

Meh. I love bard, but i really only play Lore.

[Yuroch Kern]

Meh. I love bard, but i really only play Lore.

Which can be a great melee with a good Dex and Con! Heroism is a good tank spell.

[LtPowers]

My personally recommendation would be to lead with two levels of paladin and then go swords.

The drawback there is you can't dump STR if you want Paladin levels.


Powers &8^]

[Yuroch Kern]

The title says it, what college is best for a melee bard?

I honestly prefer Swords for the flourishes but valor get to use shields but then again I can just take a dip into fighter and be done.

If possible I would like to make a level 11 build that can be used in AL.

And, if you take a dip in fighter, Swords become a no-brainer. You will only delay Extra Attack by one level, but have two Fighting Styles, all the weapons and armor/shields, the Flourishes, and a single 1d10 hit die. You sound like a warrior, not a caster.

[MrStabby]

A big thing is strength or dex as attack stat? Or a hexblade dip for CHa if you fancy...

For strength, dont forget you can grapple. With swords it is pretty easy to keep an open hand for a grapple and unless you have warcaster you probably want that free hand for spellcasting.

If you have armour of agathys and spirit guardians, holding an enemy next to you and pulling them away from your team mates can be great.

[Quietus]

Mmm... I never considered paladin as I was thinking in a DEX build using a rapier but it sounds solid.

Any other suggestion? How about taking armor of agathys as one of the magical secrets? It gives me some temp. HP and hurts anyone that hits me that due to my AC isn't something hard to accomplish at all.

This is actually what I am planning to do locally for AL, myself. Half-Elf Dex based Bard 1/Paladin 2/BardX, College of Swords. I keep waffling back and forth on how I want to use my ASI's - either go pure stat increases, or I am considering working around Medium Armor Master. Half plate (15) plus dex (3) plus shield (2) plus defense style (1, Paladin) is 21 base AC before magic, with no disadvantage on Stealth. I think I should be able to get half plate in tier 2? Before then, it'll probably be Scale Mail, so 18 AC at level 2, or 19 at level 3. Still perfectly servicable.

This does mean being very careful about spell selection. Without Warcaster, until you get Bard 3 (character level 5), you can't cast spells with somatic or material components without putting away your sword first. Once you get Bard 3, college of swords lets you use your weapon as an arcane focus, so you can cast spells that have material components, or material AND somatic components, without putting your sword away. You'll still have to disarm for those rare spells that have somatic but no material components, though.

One thing to remember, as noted by others - if you do go this route, you need 13 strength to multiclass Paladin. If you intend to go dex based, this is going to make things VERY tight, stat-wise. I went half-elf so I could get 16 dex/cha, 14 con, and that's leaving me dumping wisdom and int, which I will surely regret.

[Benny89]

Might be not what you are looking for but first of all I would never go melee bard without either Hexblade dip for SAD CHA, Curse, Medium armors + martial + shields or Paladin dip for Smites + armors etc.

Thing is even if you make melee bard like Swords of Valor- you are not really good in melee, nor you should live there. DEX build kind of works but DEX ASI takes away ASI that could go for your CHA and if you will need high DEX you will have low CON because you also need high CHA for being full caster.

Therefore I would recommend Swords more than Valor for Sword n Shield or Dual wielding build.

So First Build- Hexblade Sword and Shield:

1/Hexblade/6 Swords. This is base. Start with 17 CHA and Half-Elf, take Elven Accuacy at 5 and War Caster at 9. Take Dueling from Swords. At level 13 take +2 CHA for 20 CHA. Now you will want to use Weapon + Shield. Just use best magic weapon you find.

You are SAD CHA and once you will hit level 8 (1/7) you will grab Greater Invisibility. This will give you perma super advantage, making all your hits count + disadvantage for anyone else + you can't be targeted by "see" spells. That will boost your survival in melee a lot. Combine that with 19-20 crit-range Curse on primary target and you will be able to bring a lot of pain. Half-Plate + Shield will give you 19 AC. Greater Inv. will boost your defense further.

Push then your Bard to level 10 for Magic Secrets. Grab what you want, I recommend Counterspell + Destructive Wave for melee Bard build.

Then take 2 Level of Hexblade, grab Agonizing Blast you are have both great melee + great range options.

Second Build: Paladin

Here I would recommend either 2/X Build if you expect to get to levels 18+. If you are 100% sure you won't play that high then do 3/X as you won't miss level 18 Magic Secrets.

For 2/18 start with Variant Human 16 STR, 13 CON, 16 CHA. Start with RES (CON) for 14 CON, then rise your STR to level 20 (unless you are sure you will get STR items in your game, then go for CHA). Use Sword n Shield. Start with Paladin to get WIS proficiency + heavy armor and Shield. Get to level 2 and start Bard and go there. Then just smite your enemies.

I recommend more Hexblade build as you can start from level 1 with Green Flame Blade which is excellent spell combined with Elven Accuracy which you can easy get from Fearie Fire spam. GFB will be more than enough to substitute for extra attack till level 6 of Sword Bard.

For 3/18 it's 1 Hexblade/6 Bard/2 Paladin for being SAD CHA and being able to start with Half-Elf instead. Longer to go online and get all benfits and you miss level 18 Magic Secrets and it's 3 level delay of caster progression.

This is what I would recommend for melee Bard.




SEMI-Melee Build: Whispher Hexblade


Again 2 Hexblade/10 Bard build. Here you are semi melee, you play more like Rogue. So everything same- Half-Elf, 17 CHA, Elven Accuracy 18 CHA, 20 CHA first ASI. On Next ASI after 20 CHA grab War Caster.

Now Focus on using the following combo: run to target- Dissonant Whispers (5th level slot for example) -> Target Runs away from you-> Opportunity Attack -> Longsword + Booming Blade + Cutting Words hit -> Booming Blade proc because target needs to keep running from Dissonant Whispers.

Whole combo at level 12 (5th slot for Dissonant Wshispers) will do 7d6 + 1d8 + 5 + 2d8 + 5d6 + 3d8.

Total: 12d6 + 6d8 + 5 = 74 dmg and target is running away so next turn he will have to come back to you. If you crit...well, that is extra 3d8 + 5d6, so 105 dmg.

For NON-melee Bard (if you'd be interested)

I still thing bards are better as casters than melee, so I will just leave my fav build as caster here. Go Lore Bard 6/Hexblade 2. You get level Cutting Words which is excellent substitute for Shield for you and your teammates. Depends on DM it can also cancel Critical Hit (I allow it, so ask your DM) and on level 6 you get your first Magic Secrets which is excellent for grabbing something like Conjure Animals + Counterspell or Fireball + Counterspell. Then go 2 level of Hexblade for Medium armor + Agonizing Blast + Repelling Blast/Mask of Many Faces, making you excellent DPR caster at level 8. Focus just on CHA, nothing else. You don't need Elven Accuracy as you will be focusing on stronger concentration spells here like Hypnotic Pattern, Conjure Animals, Reverse Gravity/Wall of Force etc.

For Social/Spy character go Changling + Armor of Shadows/Repelling Blast + Actor Feat or Half-Elf + Mask of Many Faces + Actor. Armor of Shadows if you have 16 DEX and go for GOO warlock for Reading Thought for example.

Have fun with Bard, it's great class :)

[FabulousFizban]

best melee bard is lore bard. take medium armor proficiency at 4th lvl, or 1st if you’re human. take shield and bless @ 6th lvl or counterspell if you already have someone to caste bless. with half plate, a shield, and the shield spell your AC is a 24. with bless you get 1d4 to attacks and saves.

[diplomancer]

best melee bard is lore bard. take medium armor proficiency at 4th lvl, or 1st if you’re human. take shield and bless @ 6th lvl or counterspell if you already have someone to caste bless. with half plate, a shield, and the shield spell your AC is a 24. with bless you get 1d4 to attacks and saves.

Damage still sucks though. If going this route, get one of the SCAG cantrips instead of bless (bards have too many great concentration spells to concentrate on bless, and if you are casting bless and shield all the time you are running out of 1st level slots fast)

[Yuroch Kern]

One of the brutal things about Valor Bard is a single level dip in Fighter kinda invalidates every subclass feature except Battle Magic, which is far in the future. This makes a fighter level and Lore/Sword Bard hell on wheels, since a single level grants most of the low level Valor abilities and then some. Heck, taking first level Fighter can open up heavy armor and Con saves if you're gonna Concentrate in melee. There is something for everyone here. Meanwhile, Valor brings martial abilities already as a caster, and best paired with another CASTER class, like sorcerer. You're 11th level? Dip a level of Draconic Sorcerer for 4 cantrips, natural 13 AC, +10 hp, and two extra spells as a form of Magical Secrets.

[Man_Over_Game]

Swords is a better damage dealer and a better melee combatant.
Valor is slightly tankier, is a better caster and support.

You'd use Valor when you want a Cleric or Ranger. You'd use Swords when you want a Swashbuckler.

[darknite]

I chose Swords, but mainly because I had a Sword of Speed I knew they would get. Mixed it with a level of Hexblade, too (a servant of the Sword, a named weapon of great renown and power). Pretty potent in combat, especially when casting Tenser's Transformation.

[Benny89]

I chose Swords, but mainly because I had a Sword of Speed I knew they would get. Mixed it with a level of Hexblade, too (a servant of the Sword, a named weapon of great renown and power). Pretty potent in combat, especially when casting Tenser's Transformation.

Actually when we consider Tenser's Transformation, Lore Bard/Hexblade would still be as good as Swords and Valor when they use it because, per spell description:

" - You can attack twice, instead of once, when you take the Attack action on your turn. You ignore this benefit if you already have a feature, like Extra Attack, that gives you extra attacks."

So even if you have Extra attack, Tenser's gives you second attack anyway so Lore Bard will attack twice.

Whisper Bard actually would imo work best with Tenser's as he can use Physic Blades.