Class optimization: Fist of the DeepWarden

[Diegodod]

Hello again :)

I am creating a new char now. (11lv)

I whant a tanker for the team, the only one I realy like is the Fist of the florest 1/DeepWarden 2. (Con=AC)

this week I was thinking, how can I extract the most of this? Licantropy,Monk,barbarian? so like a noob I am, I come to ask you.

How would you progress this class?

What inicial class? what feat? what race u like in this arquetype?

Ty for your help, again!

[Falontani]

Beasthide Shifter with 18 base con. Take the stout trait for +1 hp/hd -1/2 land speed.
Level 1 City Brawler Barbarian Grab Pounce. Feat Reckless Rage. 21 hp fully self buffed. (26 con) 1d12
Level 2 Ranger. 38 hp fully self buffed (26 con) 1d12+1d8
Level 3 Strong Arm Ranger. Healing Factor. 55 hp fully self buffed (26 con) 1d12+2d8
Level 4 Ranger. 72 hp fully buffed (27 con) 1d12+3d8
Level 5 Stoneblessed. 89 hp fully buffed (27 con) 1d12+4d8
Level 6 Weretouched Master. Improved Toughness. Wolverine. 118 hp fully buffed (29 con) 1d12+5d8
Level 7 Weretouched Master. Beasthide Elite. 137 hp fully buffed (29 con) 1d12+6d8
Level 8 Weretouched Master. Wolverine Rage. 171 hp fully buffed (32 con) 1d12+7d8
Level 9 Weretouched Master. Extra Shifter Trait: Wild Hunt, Shape Soulmeld: Great Fortitude. 201 hp fully buffed (34 con) 1d12+8d8
Level 10 Weretouched Master. Alternate Form. 264 hp fully buffed (42 con) 1d12+9d8.
+6 con item (48 con) 304 hp.
Level 11 Stoneblessed
Level 12 Stoneblessed (+2 con) Superior Unarmed Strike
Level 13 Fist of the Forest
Level 14 Deep Warden
Level 15 Deep Warden

[Endarire]

What about Crusader or/and Warblade from Tome of Battle? What of a WhirlPounce Barbarian1 dip? What of Cloistered Cleric1 for Knowledge Devotion, Travel Devotion, and something else?

[Diegodod]

What about Crusader or/and Warblade from Tome of Battle? What of a WhirlPounce Barbarian1 dip? What of Cloistered Cleric1 for Knowledge Devotion, Travel Devotion, and something else?

i forgot, i can't use tome of battle, complete psy and dragon magazine. Stats 16 14 14 12 10 8. (flaw and trait depend of the BG)

[Diegodod]

Beasthide Shifter with 18 base con. Take the stout trait for +1 hp/hd -1/2 land speed.
Level 1 City Brawler Barbarian Grab Pounce. Feat Reckless Rage. 21 hp fully self buffed. (26 con) 1d12
Level 2 Ranger. 38 hp fully self buffed (26 con) 1d12+1d8
Level 3 Strong Arm Ranger. Healing Factor. 55 hp fully self buffed (26 con) 1d12+2d8
Level 4 Ranger. 72 hp fully buffed (27 con) 1d12+3d8
Level 5 Stoneblessed. 89 hp fully buffed (27 con) 1d12+4d8
Level 6 Weretouched Master. Improved Toughness. Wolverine. 118 hp fully buffed (29 con) 1d12+5d8
Level 7 Weretouched Master. Beasthide Elite. 137 hp fully buffed (29 con) 1d12+6d8
Level 8 Weretouched Master. Wolverine Rage. 171 hp fully buffed (32 con) 1d12+7d8
Level 9 Weretouched Master. Extra Shifter Trait: Wild Hunt, Shape Soulmeld: Great Fortitude. 201 hp fully buffed (34 con) 1d12+8d8
Level 10 Weretouched Master. Alternate Form. 264 hp fully buffed (42 con) 1d12+9d8.
+6 con item (48 con) 304 hp.
Level 11 Stoneblessed
Level 12 Stoneblessed (+2 con) Superior Unarmed Strike
Level 13 Fist of the Forest
Level 14 Deep Warden
Level 15 Deep Warden

I liked it.
what u think in use the DeepWarden and fist of the florest in the lvs 9-11?

[Zaq]

With that much CON, Falontani, it feels like a shame to not have a breath weapon from somewhere...

[Falontani]

With that much CON, Falontani, it feels like a shame to not have a breath weapon from somewhere...

I know, right? Suggestion for breath weapon would be through incarnum. 2 levels of totemist, 2 levels of incarnate. With flaws instead go 2 totemist, 2 totem rager.

@op, You need the three levels of stoneblessed before you can take levels in deepwarden. You can do this by pushing back fotf, or Weretouched Master. Weretouched Master is giving you a large amount of constitution which is maximizing your ac and hp. To get more con you can look into bear warrior, although it's doubtful that the alternate form will stack with the bear form. You can drop improved toughness as it's only 20 hp over 20 levels. For more damage grab improved natural attack: unarmed strike. I'll edit my post with sources, although I did use two Dragon magazine acf's for unarmed strike and for power attack.
Again if flaws are allowed you can grab both of those without Dragon magazine
I'll do an iron chef write-up when time permits

[Diegodod]

I know, right? Suggestion for breath weapon would be through incarnum. 2 levels of totemist, 2 levels of incarnate. With flaws instead go 2 totemist, 2 totem rager.

@op, You need the three levels of stoneblessed before you can take levels in deepwarden. You can do this by pushing back fotf, or Weretouched Master. Weretouched Master is giving you a large amount of constitution which is maximizing your ac and hp. To get more con you can look into bear warrior, although it's doubtful that the alternate form will stack with the bear form. You can drop improved toughness as it's only 20 hp over 20 levels. For more damage grab improved natural attack: unarmed strike. I'll edit my post with sources, although I did use two Dragon magazine acf's for unarmed strike and for power attack.
Again if flaws are allowed you can grab both of those without Dragon magazine
I'll do an iron chef write-up when time permits

My original bild was:

Monk 2/Barbarian 3 (bear totem)/Fist of the florest 1/DeepWarden 2/Bear warrior 5/drunk master 3 (the game ended there)

[Falontani]

Beasthide Shifter


Str

14




Dex

10




Con

16

4, 8, 12, 16



Int

14




Wis

12




Cha

8










Lvl

Class

Base Attack Bonus

Fort Save

Ref Save

Will Save

Skills

Feats

Class Features

Health


1

Barbarian

+1

+2

-3

+0

Craft (Stoneworking) +4, Appraise +2, Survival +4, Handle Animal +4, Knowledge (Nature) +2, Intimidate +4

Reckless Rage, Improved Unarmed Strike(F), Power Attack(F), Poor Reflexes, Shaky, Slow

Illiteracy, Rage 1/day, Pounce (Spirit Lion Totem)

1d12
16 con mod (+3 HP)
Buffed: 24 con mod (+7 HP)



2

Shifter Ranger

+2

+4

-1

+0


Track(B)

Shifter Wild Empathy, Favored Enemy: (Campaign Specific, or Arcanist)

1d12+1d8
16 con mod (+6 HP)
Buffed: 24 con mod (+14 HP)



3

Ranger

+3

+5

+0

+0


Healing Factor, Two Weapon Fighting(B)

Two Weapon Fighting Style

1d12+2d8
16 con mod (+9 HP)
Buffed: 24 con mod (+21 HP)



4

Ranger

+4

+5

+0

+1


Endurance(B)


1d12+3d8
17 con (+12 HP)
Buffed: 25 con (+28 HP)



5

Stoneblessed

+4

+7

+0

+3



Stonebond

1d12+4d8
17 con (+15 hp)
Buffed: 25 con (+35 HP)



6

Weretouched Master

+4

+9

+2

+3


Superior Unarmed Strike

Weretouched: Wolverine

1d12+5d8
17 con (+18 hp)
Buffed: 27 con (+48 HP)



7

Weretouched Master

+5

+10

+3

+3


Beasthide Elite(B)

Wild Empathy

1d12+6d8
17 con (+21 HP)
Buffed: 27 con (+56 HP)



8

Weretouched Master

+6

+10

+3

+4



Wolverine Rage

1d12+7d8
18 con (+32 HP)
Buffed: 32 con (+88 HP)



9

Weretouched Master

+7

+13

+4

+4


Extra Shifter Trait: Wildhunt(B), Great Fortitude

Frightful Shifting

1d12+8d8
18 con (+36 HP)
Buffed: 32 con (+99 HP)



10

Weretouched Master

+7

+13

+4

+4



Alternate Form

1d12+9d8
18 Con (+40 HP)
Buffed: 40 con (+150 HP)



11

Fist of the Forest

+8

+15

+6

+4



Fast Movement +10, Primal Living, AC Bonus, Feral Trance, Unarmed Strike (now 2d6)

1d12+1d10+9d8
18 Con (+44 HP)
Buffed: 40 Con (+165 HP)



12

Stoneblessed

+9

+16

+6

+5


Improved Natural Attack: Unarmed Strike (Now 3d8)

Racial Battle Technique

1d12+1d10+10d8
19 Con (+48 HP)
Buffed: 41 Con (+180 HP)



13

Stoneblessed

+10

+16

+7

+5



Stoneborn

1d12+1d10+11d8
21 Con (+65 HP)
Buffed: 43 Con (+208 HP)



14

Deepwarden

+11

+18

+7

+7



Trap Sense +1

2d12+1d10+11d8
21 con (+70 HP)
Buffed: 43 Con (224 HP)



15

Deepwarden

+12

+19

+7

+8


Hammer Fist

Stone Warden

3d12+1d10+11d8
21 con (+75 HP)
Buffed: 43 Con (+240 HP)



16

Fist of the Forest

+13

+20

+8

+8



Uncanny Dodge, Untamed Strike

3d12+2d10+11d8
22 Con (+96 HP)
Buffed: 44 Con (+272 HP)



17

Totemist

+13

+22

+10

+8



Wild Empathy, 2 Soulmelds, 1 Essentia

3d12+2d10+12d8
22 Con (+102 HP)
Buffed: 44 Con (+288 HP)



18

Totemist

+14

+23

+11

+8


Quicken Breath (if you can open your greater chakra)

Totem Chakra Bind (+1 Capacity)

3d12+2d10+13d8
22 Con (+108 HP)
Buffed: 44 Con (+304 HP)



19

Totemist

+15

+23

+11

+9



Totem’s Protection

3d12+2d10+14d8
22 Con (+114 HP)
Buffed: 44 Con (+320 HP)



20

Fist of the Forest

+16

+23

+11

+10



Feral Trance 2/day, Scent, Unarmed Strike die increase (now 6d6)

3d12+3d10+14d8
23 Con (+120 HP)
Buffed: 45 Con (+340 HP)




Attack Routine: Unarmed Strike +14/+9/+4/-1 (6d6+Str*1.5), Offhand Unarmed Strike +14 (6d6+Str*.5), Bite +9 (1d6+str*.5), Claw +9/+9 (1d6+str*.5), Claw +9/+9/+9/+9 (1d4+str*.5)
Soulmelds: If you can open your greater chakra your totally binding the Winter Mask to that, and throwing all your essentia into it (all 4) giving you a breath attack that deals 10d6 cold damage, then moving all your essentia around to your other soulmelds (like your totem chakra)
Claws of the Wyrm (unbound) gives you 2 additional 1d6 claw attacks
Girallon Arms (Bound to the Chakra) gives you 4 additional 1d4 claw attacks

[Diegodod]

Beasthide Shifter


Str

14




Dex

10




Con

16

4, 8, 12, 16



Int

14




Wis

12




Cha

8










Lvl

Class

Base Attack Bonus

Fort Save

Ref Save

Will Save

Skills

Feats

Class Features

Health


1

Barbarian

+1

+2

-3

+0

Craft (Stoneworking) +4, Appraise +2, Survival +4, Handle Animal +4, Knowledge (Nature) +2, Intimidate +4

Reckless Rage, Improved Unarmed Strike(F), Power Attack(F), Poor Reflexes, Shaky, Slow

Illiteracy, Rage 1/day, Pounce (Spirit Lion Totem)

1d12
16 con mod (+3 HP)
Buffed: 24 con mod (+7 HP)



2

Shifter Ranger

+2

+4

-1

+0


Track(B)

Shifter Wild Empathy, Favored Enemy: (Campaign Specific, or Arcanist)

1d12+1d8
16 con mod (+6 HP)
Buffed: 24 con mod (+14 HP)



3

Ranger

+3

+5

+0

+0


Healing Factor, Two Weapon Fighting(B)

Two Weapon Fighting Style

1d12+2d8
16 con mod (+9 HP)
Buffed: 24 con mod (+21 HP)



4

Ranger

+4

+5

+0

+1


Endurance(B)


1d12+3d8
17 con (+12 HP)
Buffed: 25 con (+28 HP)



5

Stoneblessed

+4

+7

+0

+3



Stonebond

1d12+4d8
17 con (+15 hp)
Buffed: 25 con (+35 HP)



6

Weretouched Master

+4

+9

+2

+3


Superior Unarmed Strike

Weretouched: Wolverine

1d12+5d8
17 con (+18 hp)
Buffed: 27 con (+48 HP)



7

Weretouched Master

+5

+10

+3

+3


Beasthide Elite(B)

Wild Empathy

1d12+6d8
17 con (+21 HP)
Buffed: 27 con (+56 HP)



8

Weretouched Master

+6

+10

+3

+4



Wolverine Rage

1d12+7d8
18 con (+32 HP)
Buffed: 32 con (+88 HP)



9

Weretouched Master

+7

+13

+4

+4


Extra Shifter Trait: Wildhunt(B), Great Fortitude

Frightful Shifting

1d12+8d8
18 con (+36 HP)
Buffed: 32 con (+99 HP)



10

Weretouched Master

+7

+13

+4

+4



Alternate Form

1d12+9d8
18 Con (+40 HP)
Buffed: 40 con (+150 HP)



11

Fist of the Forest

+8

+15

+6

+4



Fast Movement +10, Primal Living, AC Bonus, Feral Trance, Unarmed Strike (now 2d6)

1d12+1d10+9d8
18 Con (+44 HP)
Buffed: 40 Con (+165 HP)



12

Stoneblessed

+9

+16

+6

+5


Improved Natural Attack: Unarmed Strike (Now 3d8)

Racial Battle Technique

1d12+1d10+10d8
19 Con (+48 HP)
Buffed: 41 Con (+180 HP)



13

Stoneblessed

+10

+16

+7

+5



Stoneborn

1d12+1d10+11d8
21 Con (+65 HP)
Buffed: 43 Con (+208 HP)



14

Deepwarden

+11

+18

+7

+7



Trap Sense +1

2d12+1d10+11d8
21 con (+70 HP)
Buffed: 43 Con (224 HP)



15

Deepwarden

+12

+19

+7

+8


Hammer Fist

Stone Warden

3d12+1d10+11d8
21 con (+75 HP)
Buffed: 43 Con (+240 HP)



16

Fist of the Forest

+13

+20

+8

+8



Uncanny Dodge, Untamed Strike

3d12+2d10+11d8
22 Con (+96 HP)
Buffed: 44 Con (+272 HP)



17

Totemist

+13

+22

+10

+8



Wild Empathy, 2 Soulmelds, 1 Essentia

3d12+2d10+12d8
22 Con (+102 HP)
Buffed: 44 Con (+288 HP)



18

Totemist

+14

+23

+11

+8


Quicken Breath (if you can open your greater chakra)

Totem Chakra Bind (+1 Capacity)

3d12+2d10+13d8
22 Con (+108 HP)
Buffed: 44 Con (+304 HP)



19

Totemist

+15

+23

+11

+9



Totem’s Protection

3d12+2d10+14d8
22 Con (+114 HP)
Buffed: 44 Con (+320 HP)



20

Fist of the Forest

+16

+23

+11

+10



Feral Trance 2/day, Scent, Unarmed Strike die increase (now 6d6)

3d12+3d10+14d8
23 Con (+120 HP)
Buffed: 45 Con (+340 HP)




Attack Routine: Unarmed Strike +14/+9/+4/-1 (6d6+Str*1.5), Offhand Unarmed Strike +14 (6d6+Str*.5), Bite +9 (1d6+str*.5), Claw +9/+9 (1d6+str*.5), Claw +9/+9/+9/+9 (1d4+str*.5)
Soulmelds: If you can open your greater chakra your totally binding the Winter Mask to that, and throwing all your essentia into it (all 4) giving you a breath attack that deals 10d6 cold damage, then moving all your essentia around to your other soulmelds (like your totem chakra)
Claws of the Wyrm (unbound) gives you 2 additional 1d6 claw attacks
Girallon Arms (Bound to the Chakra) gives you 4 additional 1d4 claw attacks


Ty for the help! :)

[Falontani]

Ty for the help! :)

No problem

[MisterKaws]

The most important thing for a tanker isn't HP. That's second most important.

Your first priority is finding a way of forcing people to keep their attention on you. If you don't, they'll just disengage and kill the Wizard.

[Falontani]

The most important thing for a tanker isn't HP. That's second most important.

Your first priority is finding a way of forcing people to keep their attention on you. If you don't, they'll just disengage and kill the Wizard.

Honestly, easiest way to do that is to give the tank an item (spell storing works) of shield other, and make the item noticeable. Any creature that knows to kill the wizard will know what the item is doing. If you can get multiple abilities like shield other going at the same time, even better. (Like the vestige)

[PoeticallyPsyco]

Why wild hunt shifter as your Extra Shifter Trait? It gives you scent while shifting, but you already have that all the time from Weretouched Master 3 (and you don't get the ability score boost from Extra Shifter Trait). I'd grab Longtooth for the extra attack or Swiftwing for flight while shifting.

EDIT: Or grab Improved Natural Attack (unarmed strike) a few levels early. Yep, INA does count as a shifter feat.

[Falontani]

I don't believe that he gets scent until level 20 except for from wildhunt.

[Diegodod]

What magic itens u guys recomend? Monk's belt? Con +6? Ectoplasmic Fist Shard?

[PoeticallyPsyco]

I don't believe that he gets scent until level 20 except for from wildhunt.

Nope. Admittedly, it's overshadowed by all the other awesome stuff you get at the third level of Weretouched Master, but one of the things you get is definitely Scent.

Normally I'd recommend Shifter Savagery as the bonus feat, because it's fantastic, but it doesn't actually stack with all the other bonuses to unarmed and bite damage you have. So I think Improved Natural Attack (unarmed strike) is the way to go, especially since it also increases your bite damage from Weretouched I for free.

[Falontani]

What magic itens u guys recomend? Monk's belt? Con +6? Ectoplasmic Fist Shard?
Con +6, str +6, + natural armor, + deflection, + saves, monk's belt might be good, might be terrible. Superior Unarmed Strike and monk unarmed strike interacts weirdly, and fist of the forest complicates it more. Check with your dm, see if it will give you unarmed damage penalties or not. If your able to grab some mage armor, maybe some shield spell. A ring of spell storing that you put shield other in. If you can get a fanged ring retrain your INA to be INA claw or bite. You'll want fast healing 1 somehow to heal you in between combat. Necklace of natural attacks will benefit you a lot. You have pounce so you'll be charging. Flight will be nice. For out of combat your the party tracker, and your knowledgeable about nature, probably real knowledgeable about rocks.

Nope. Admittedly, it's overshadowed by all the other awesome stuff you get at the third level of Weretouched Master, but one of the things you get is definitely Scent.

Normally I'd recommend Shifter Savagery as the bonus feat, because it's fantastic, but it doesn't actually stack with all the other bonuses to unarmed and bite damage you have. So I think Improved Natural Attack (unarmed strike) is the way to go, especially since it also increases your bite damage from Weretouched I for free.

That's a good point.

[Diegodod]

Con +6, str +6, + natural armor, + deflection, + saves, monk's belt might be good, might be terrible. Superior Unarmed Strike and monk unarmed strike interacts weirdly, and fist of the forest complicates it more. Check with your dm, see if it will give you unarmed damage penalties or not. If your able to grab some mage armor, maybe some shield spell. A ring of spell storing that you put shield other in. If you can get a fanged ring retrain your INA to be INA claw or bite. You'll want fast healing 1 somehow to heal you in between combat. Necklace of natural attacks will benefit you a lot. You have pounce so you'll be charging. Flight will be nice. For out of combat your the party tracker, and your knowledgeable about nature, probably real knowledgeable about rocks.


That's a good point.


Some thing I was thinking, is there anywhay I can consider not using armor, when I use armor ?

[Falontani]

Some thing I was thinking, is there anywhay I can consider not using armor, when I use armor ?

Bracers of armor, robe of armor, glamered robe of armor can look like another kind of armor without actually counting as armor.
Luminous armor, greater luminous armor, mage armor, greater mage armor.