Bugbear rogue sneak attack is OP

[Wizard_Lizard]

I decided to create a fighter 1 rogue 2 bugbear character for apossible campaign, and I was olaytesting it when I realized that with max DEX and proficiency in stealth+sneak attack AND the racial sneak attack from bugbear that js a potential 1d8 + 3d6 + 5! at max damage that would be 32 damage at lvl 1!!!!

[Astofel]

Eh, I wouldn't worry about it. First of all, the bugbear's surprise attack only works on your first turn in combat, so it's only going to happen once, and the attack could miss. Secondly, it's a little ambiguous, but it looks like it also needs the target to be surprised, which is never a guaranteed thing. Thirdly, yes 32 is a lot of damage especially at 1st level, but the odds of actually getting that much damage are only 1/1728. Average damage, which is more important to look at, is 20, which is still significant, but also still requires everything to go your way.

[R.Shackleford]

I decided to create a fighter 1 rogue 2 bugbear character for apossible campaign, and I was olaytesting it when I realized that with max DEX and proficiency in stealth+sneak attack AND the racial sneak attack from bugbear that js a potential 1d8 + 3d6 + 5! at max damage that would be 32 damage at lvl 1!!!!

The one thing that 3e and 4e has taught any DMs worth their salt is that direct damage is the least broken thing in the game. As long as you run things with just a bit of effort, doing 32 damage at level 1 is no different from doing 12 damage.

Examples...

1: Change the win condition. Yeah, throw in some enemies to kill but make the main condition to win revolve around skills, roleplaying, time based, or whatever else. If you have 1 minute to disarm a trap, that damage that your rogue can do doesn't mean squat.

2: Eventually the player characters will get infamous/famous and enemies would have heard of them from enemies that have ran away or spied on them. The bugbear would be known to having a great first attack. Have enemies use the dodge action and the Rogue can't use sneak attack. "You don’t need advantage on the attack roll if another enemy of the target is within 5 feet of it, that enemy isn’t incapacitated, and you don’t have disadvantage on the attack roll." Negating disadvantage may or may not work btw, technically even if you negate the disadvantage with advantage, you still have the disadvantage but some DMs rule it different ways.

3: Make it where the player character wouldn't want to attack the target. Bring in the back story of the enemy (sub-boss or boss works best) to be connected to the PC. I had a DM that made it my character's mom who was a minor-BBEG and well, yeah, my character wasn't about to stab his mother as while she may have been doing evil... It's his mom... Plus she was super awesome to him and the party the whole time and we didn't really think she was the bbeg but we totally should have...

Do note, that you do want a character to play to their strengths, but doing 1,000 damage is no different than doing a lot of damage. Many things die in a round or two in combat due to the floor being raised, in relation to damage, in 5e (meaning more characters can contribute). If you deal Target HP+1 damage or target HP+ 2,473 damage... The result is the same. Dead in one round.

People on forums drastically overstate how important damage really is, though that's probably because a majority of combat is "party v sack of HP" (looking at you WotC).

[Great Dragon]

I like to remind myself that the Bugbear's Extra Damage works the same way as for the abilities of Assassin Rogues.

5e Surprise doesn't work like 3x, in that the attacker gets a "free round" of attacking.

Anyone with the Alert Feat means that only if the Bugbear's initiative beats the target, do they get their Extra Damage.

Bugbear Assassin is greatly frustrated by both High Passive Perception and Alert targets!!

[Unoriginal]

As the others have said, it's decently high damage, once, but it's far from OP.

[Wizard_Lizard]

I like to remind myself that the Bugbear's Extra Damage works the same way as for the abilities of Assassin Rogues.

5e Surprise doesn't work like 3x, in that the attacker gets a "free round" of attacking.

Anyone with the Alert Feat means that only if the Bugbear's initiative beats the target, do they get their Extra Damage.

Bugbear Assassin is greatly frustrated by both High Passive Perception and Alert targets!!

goshdarnit. Well time for a new go at making a completely optimized charaxter. next stop goliath barbarian.

[strangebloke]

goshdarnit. Well time for a new go at making a completely optimized charaxter. next stop goliath barbarian.

Bugbear rogue is not a bad character.

Neither is Goliath barbarian.

But if you're looking just to be really strong at level 1, vhuman fighter is the way to do it. Polearm or heavy armor master as feats will make you a powerhouse.

[R.Shackleford]

Bugbear rogue is not a bad character.

Neither is Goliath barbarian.

But if you're looking just to be really strong at level 1, vhuman fighter is the way to do it. Polearm or heavy armor master as feats will make you a powerhouse.

I wouldn't call one of the easiest character to shut down a powerhouse.

No real skill bonuses, no int/Wis/cha support, no good movement options... Eh... Direct damage isn't worth much when you ain't able to suppport it in other ways.

[Yunru]

I wouldn't call one of the easiest character to shut down a powerhouse.

No real skill bonuses, no int/Wis/cha support, no good movement options... Eh... Direct damage isn't worth much when you ain't able to suppport it in other ways.

Yeah, not to mention at first level it's Crossbow Expert or Great Weapon Master before PAM. Oddly enough you end up using the cleave more than the -5/+10.

[Great Dragon]

goshdarnit. Well time for a new go at making a completely optimized charaxter. next stop goliath barbarian.

Well, sure.
Just remember to go Barbarian Bear Totem.

You know, so that your stacking your Goliath Racial -1d12 DR with class resistances!!
Best way to reduce Psychic damage.

Note: watch out for foes with Banishment!!


I wouldn't call one of the easiest character to shut down a powerhouse.

No real skill bonuses, no int/Wis/cha support, no good movement options... Eh... Direct damage isn't worth much when you ain't able to suppport it in other ways.

Depends on if you're wanting a high AC+DPR PC that is supported by other party members.

Or -

if you're making the One Man Army PC.
In which case, you trade high level class powers for versatility with Multiclassing.

[R.Shackleford]

Well, sure.
Just remember to go Barbarian Bear Totem.

You know, so that your stacking your Goliath Racial -1d12 DR with class resistances!!
Best way to reduce Psychic damage.

Note: watch out for foes with Banishment!!



Depends on if you're wanting a high AC+DPR PC that is supported by other party members.

Or -

if you're making the One Man Army PC.
In which case, you trade high level class powers for versatility with Multiclassing.

No. It doesn't "depend" on what you want to do. This isn't some sort of vacuum where other classes don't exist.

It doesn't matter what you're going for. A characrer that is easily shut down by rundimentary tactics and options is not a "power house". Direct damage, specifically via weapons, is the least "powerful" option.

The dodge action, ranged characters, and plenty of other challenges really shut down the PAM fighter. Difficult terrain is a fun issue to deal with as a PAM fighter. While that PAM fighter is dealing with difficult terrain, my fighter with Mobile (maybe a v human cleric with Mobile and Charger :p) will be running right past yours in order to strike an oponent.

You can't call something with so many glaring weaknesses a power house or a 1 man army.

[Potato_Priest]

No. It doesn't "depend" on what you want to do. This isn't some sort of vacuum where other classes don't exist.

It doesn't matter what you're going for. A characrer that is easily shut down by rundimentary tactics and options is not a "power house". Direct damage, specifically via weapons, is the least "powerful" option.

The dodge action, ranged characters, and plenty of other challenges really shut down the PAM fighter. Difficult terrain is a fun issue to deal with as a PAM fighter. While that PAM fighter is dealing with difficult terrain, my fighter with Mobile (maybe a v human cleric with Mobile and Charger :p) will be running right past yours in order to strike an oponent.

You can't call something with so many glaring weaknesses a power house or a 1 man army.

Everything has an easy counter in 5e. A polearm master fighter is weak against save-or-sucks and difficult terrain. A fighter who neglects damage options for mobility is weak against save-or sucks and grappling. A mage is weak against archers and ambushers, and easily shut down by direct damage. An assassin is weak against anything with high passive perception.

Pointing out that the polearm master fighter has lots of easy to exploit weaknesses is true, but doing so conveniently ignores the fact that everything in the system has lots of easy to exploit weaknesses.

[Great Dragon]

Everything has an easy counter in 5e.

This is exactly what I was going for. Nice examples.

[R.Shackleford]

Everything has an easy counter in 5e. A polearm master fighter is weak against save-or-sucks and difficult terrain. A fighter who neglects damage options for mobility is weak against save-or sucks and grappling. A mage is weak against archers and ambushers, and easily shut down by direct damage. An assassin is weak against anything with high passive perception.

Pointing out that the polearm master fighter has lots of easy to exploit weaknesses is true, but doing so conveniently ignores the fact that everything in the system has lots of easy to exploit weaknesses.

Not even close.

You may be able to shut down one aspect of a class, but if you try to shut down all aspects of a Cleric, Wizard, Druid, or Rogue... Then you're purposely screwing over the entire party.

These classes can do more than one thing at any given time and it usually takes more than simple tactics or thought to shut them down completely.

Fighter (or Barbarian) with PAM? Simple. Others? Not so much.

Of course, you can pretend that you can if you want and we can just agree to disagree based on that... But as a DM you have to actively try not to shut down a PAM Fighter where the other types of classes you need to actively try to shut them down.

[Great Dragon]

Not even close.

You may be able to shut down one aspect of a class, but if you try to shut down all aspects of a Cleric, Wizard, Druid, or Rogue... Then you're purposely screwing over the entire party.

These classes can do more than one thing at any given time and it usually takes more than simple tactics or thought to shut them down completely.

Fighter (or Barbarian) with PAM? Simple. Others? Not so much.

Of course, you can pretend that you can if you want and we can just agree to disagree based on that... But as a DM you have to actively try not to shut down a PAM Fighter where the other types of classes you need to actively try to shut them down.

I'll admit that I'm still learning 5e.
Monsters I can figure out, and even Homebrew some variations.

Class vs Class seems too close to PvP to me, so I try to keep my "Villain" NPCs to a Plot Goal, where direct combat is only one way to win.

I am interested in tactics and strategies, though.
Examples, please?

[PhoenixPhyre]

Not even close.

You may be able to shut down one aspect of a class, but if you try to shut down all aspects of a Cleric, Wizard, Druid, or Rogue... Then you're purposely screwing over the entire party.

These classes can do more than one thing at any given time and it usually takes more than simple tactics or thought to shut them down completely.

Fighter (or Barbarian) with PAM? Simple. Others? Not so much.

Of course, you can pretend that you can if you want and we can just agree to disagree based on that... But as a DM you have to actively try not to shut down a PAM Fighter where the other types of classes you need to actively try to shut them down.

Here's the thing. You're contrasting a specific build (PAM Fighter) with a whole class. Each individual Cleric, Wizard, Druid, or Rogue (etc), when actually built (instead of being the Shroedinger's X we often end up with here on the forums) also has counters, to a similar degree. A cleric that depends on heavy armor, dodging, and spirit guardians (a common build) is countered by ranged people or open spaces (to the point that he can just be ignored). A wizard focused on utility or control isn't very good against enemies with Legendary Resistances. Etc.

Generally, the more you pigeon-hole yourself (PAM with dumped DEX and mental scores, dumping everything into dealing damage, for example), the easier you are to shut down. In no case is it as bad as an Ubercharger from 3e, where they were useless if they couldn't do their shtick and deal ALL THE DAMAGES.

[R.Shackleford]

Here's the thing. You're contrasting a specific build (PAM Fighter) with a whole class. Each individual Cleric, Wizard, Druid, or Rogue (etc), when actually built (instead of being the Shroedinger's X we often end up with here on the forums) also has counters, to a similar degree. A cleric that depends on heavy armor, dodging, and spirit guardians (a common build) is countered by ranged people or open spaces (to the point that he can just be ignored). A wizard focused on utility or control isn't very good against enemies with Legendary Resistances. Etc.

Generally, the more you pigeon-hole yourself (PAM with dumped DEX and mental scores, dumping everything into dealing damage, for example), the easier you are to shut down. In no case is it as bad as an Ubercharger from 3e, where they were useless if they couldn't do their shtick and deal ALL THE DAMAGES.

A wizard that is focused on control can still take the evoker subclass and do really good burst damage. A cleric that wants to throw around weapon attacks can still do ability checks and control. The rogue who is good at damage can still help their allies with their subclasses and be really good at ability checks (a rogue with 12 strength will out athletics the fighter at anytime). The Fighter has nothing outside of their damage. Even the Eldritch Knight has to focus on buff spells that revolve around their weapon damag, for the most part, because they become quite mad when they focus on Int.

It isn't just the PAM fighter. It's pretty much any fighter that doesn't try to specifically simulate another class via feats. Though, those other classes have way more core options to diversify their actions. Take feats out of the equation and you get the exact same issue.

DMs need to actively try to shut down an entire class in some way, except for the fighter (and barbarian), as they have to actively try not to shut down the fighter.

The core fighter class in not well made. Even action surge gives you nothing but another chance at doing what you already can't do.

Give the fighter feats and not much changes. Especially when you go offensive feats as you still just "do damage".

The Barbarian is a bit better due to being well made for trap triggering and having some class features that do great as a support character (wolf totem is severely under rated as is Danger Sense).

At the end of the day, damage is nothing to write home about. Any DM that puts the little bit of effort can work with a character that does any amount of damage. The issue comes with the fact that if they try to challenge said player (who has a fighter and possibly barbarian) you get two issues from both side of the screen...

1) The player can't do anything else well with their character and will feel like they're getting picked on. So you need to tip toe around said fighter.

2) The DM can only really challenge them the same way so many times before it gets boring. Also they need to hope the player isn't going to get mad that there's an actual challenge.

You can challenge most classes in multiple different ways but a fighter/barbarian built for damage (because we were originally talking about a high damage focused type character) get shut down unless you actively try to not shut them down. Challenging a rogue by throwing enemies that use the dodge action means that the rogue can still perform other duties during the encounter (such as dealing with traps, talking with an NPC, stealing stuff... etc) really well. Challenging a wizard with high Int/Wis/Cha save monsters means that the wizard can start slinging AC, Str, Dex, or Con based spells. The druid fighting the same enemies can instead wild shape or use spells that don't care about saving throws.

This is actually why the Armored Rogue makes for a better Fighter than the Fighter. You challenge the fighter by making damage dealing harder in some way... You get a fighter that can't do much of anything.


Edit

It's not about Class v Class. It's about Class v Game and it's quite clear that some classes have multiple options to perform, even when they specialize, and some are just a bunch of commoners in a trench coat (my favorite visualization that I've seen online when it comes to how mundane martials are).

You can certainly disagree, but I could also say that the air we breathe isn't primarily composed of Nitrogen because we totally only breathe Oxygen.

[Dalebert]

Secondly, it's a little ambiguous, but it looks like it also needs the target to be surprised, which is never a guaranteed thing.

It's not ambiguous. He needs surprise. Never garanteed? It's hardly ever! Most DMs are incredibly stingy with surprise. The enemy has to be unaware of ANYONE in the party or they can blow your chance to surprise. I have a bugbear rogue. I went thief even though assassin may seem the obvious choice. I still try to get surprise but I think I've succeeded once in about 9 or 10 levels.

[Astofel]

It's not ambiguous. He needs surprise. Never garanteed? It's hardly ever! Most DMs are incredibly stingy with surprise. The enemy has to be unaware of ANYONE in the party or they can blow your chance to surprise. I have a bugbear rogue. I went thief even though assassin may seem the obvious choice. I still try to get surprise but I think I've succeeded once in about 9 or 10 levels.

I say ambiguous because the RAW is "If you surprise a creature and hit it with an attack". Personally I would not interpret it this way, but I can see an argument being made that "surprise a creature" reads as fluff, while something like "if you hit a surprised creature with an attack" clearly calls out the surprised condition and removes any ambiguity. IDK, maybe I've been on these forums too long and I've been exposed to so many twisted RAW readings that I'm starting to see them myself.

[Great Dragon]

@R.Shackleford: Humm. Looks like you have a point.

While there are Monsters with Energy Resistance(s), once what type it is, is known, Spellcasters can just avoid that type.

The Raksasha is immune to spells of less than 6th level. And are immune to non-magical weapons. Vulnerable to magical piercing weapons wielded by Good Creatures.

Raging Barbarians are resistant to (all) physical damage but is rather limited.

I found this:
Incorporeal Undead are resistant to non-magical physical attacks.

Resistance to Non-Silvered Non-Magical Weapons

Amnizu (MTF)
Bael (MTF)
Barbed Devil (MM)
Bearded Devil (MM)
Black Abishai (MTF)
Blue Abishai (MTF)
Bone Devil (MM)
Chain Devil (MM)
Deathlock (MTF)
Deathlock Mastermind (MTF)
Erinyes (MM)
Geryon (MTF)
Green Abishai (MTF)
Hellfire Engine (MTF)
Horned Devil (MM)
Hutijin (MTF)
Ice Devil (MM)
Imp (MM)
Merregon (MTF)
Moloch (MTF)
Narzugon (MTF)
Night Hag (MM)
Nupperibo (MTF)
Orthon (MTF)
Pit Fiend (MM)
Red Abishai (MTF)
Spined Devil (MM)
Titivilus (MTF)
Warlock of the Fiend (VGM)
White Abishai (MTF)
Wight (MM)
Wraith (MM)
Zariel (MTF)

Immunity to Non-Silvered Non-Magical Weapons

Jackalwere (MM)
Lycanthrope (Werebear, wereboar, wererat, weretiger, werewolf) (MM)
Yeth Hound (VGM)

Note: Most of these are devils, fiends, or undead.


*******

This means Fighters rely on magical weapons to compete.

[Wizard_Lizard]

Bugbear rogue is not a bad character.

Neither is Goliath barbarian.

But if you're looking just to be really strong at level 1, vhuman fighter is the way to do it. Polearm or heavy armor master as feats will make you a powerhouse.

I made a vow to never use human fighters.

[CTurbo]

A level 1 vhuman War Cleric with GWM feat and a Maul *CAN* do 2d6+2d4+3+10 x2 = 66 damage up the three times a day. The average damage there is 50.

[Wizard_Lizard]

A level 1 vhuman War Cleric with GWM feat and a Maul *CAN* do 2d6+2d4+3+10 x2 = 66 damage up the three times a day. The average damage there is 50.

I find it hard to play human pcs. I have no idea as to how to act!

[Yunru]

I find it hard to play human pcs. I have no idea as to how to act!

Just be yourself man! Have your character pull out a copy of Buildings and Bugs and play that instead of doing anything genuinely productive :P

[Great Dragon]

I find it hard to play human pcs. I have no idea as to how to act!

That's ok.
I have a similar problem playing Elves
When I do play them, I tend to be rather French-ish! 😁

Adding to above:
Demons used to be harmed only by cold iron.

The Fey are resistant to physical damage except by cold iron.

I run the Sidhe (Noble Fey) as being immune to damage except from magical cold iron.
And resistant to non-magical cold iron.

But then, I have 3 Rulers of the Feywild, too.

[noob]

I run the Sidhe (Noble Fey) as being immune to damage except from magical cold iron.
And resistant to non-magical cold iron.
Cold iron hurts fey because it opposes magic.
making magical cold iron hurt more seems an incoherence.

Otherwise for damage at level 1 I heard that storm cleric with magical initiate had a correct ranged attack.

[Bloodcloud]

Well, a Paladin/warlock multiclass has few full-on weakness. Tanky, strong nova, good range damage, High AC, no completely useless saves from level 8+

Level 14+ Kensai/Sun soul is similarly rather well rounded.

Moon druid lack a bit of high-burst damage but can be built to be seriously hard to kill.

So yeah, high level character can be rather hard to shut down. Low level, it's pretty easy.

[Great Dragon]

Cold iron hurts fey because it opposes magic.
IMO, if this were true, more 'magical' creatures would be hurt by it.

Instead, Silver seems more common.
Something about "purity" and being innately magical, I think.


making magical cold iron hurt more seems an incoherence.

Well, maybe I'll need to change it to just the Archfey needing magical cold iron to really hurt them.

Note that the Archfey aren't immune to regular cold iron or magic - they just take half damage from either alone.

Sidhe could be immune to non-magical damage, but affected normally by either cold iron or magical weapons.

These (slight) changes would show that Rank within the Fey matters.

[strangebloke]

Yeah, not to mention at first level it's Crossbow Expert or Great Weapon Master before PAM. Oddly enough you end up using the cleave more than the -5/+10.
Oh sure! Those are both fine options. But it was clear from his talking about the barbarian that he wanted to build a defensively oriented character with high DPR, and didn't much care about being pigeonholed into a melee role.

So, spear+shield lets you start with 18+ AC, and the DPR from 1d6+3+2 two to three times a round is solid. On turns where you get two attacks and a GWM pick gets one, your damage is nearly exactly on par. On turns where you get three attacks and the other gets 2, you fall behind. But then, you have 2 more AC and that's very meaningful at this level. More attacks at low level just feels better too, IMO.

CE is great, of course. But once again, OP was only looking at melee builds. Also I just really think CE is stupid.

I made a vow to never use human fighters.
Ah.

Well, here's some quick, fun combos:


Levistus Tiefling Barbarian. 1/long rest you can give yourself 10 tHP which with rage ends up being more like 20 tHP. 20 tHP that deals 10 damage to enemies on each hit. Not amazing but very metal.
Tortle Strength-Based Hunter ranger. Get GWM at fourth level. High damage, High AC. Probably keep your DEX as high as your WIS, though, because there's no reason not to be able to fight at range.
Mountain Dwarf Wizard. Take Heavily Armored at fourth level to push your STR up to 18. Whack people with a booming greataxe. Use Shield to push your AC up to 23. Focus on buffs in combat and support magic outside of combat.
Wood Elf Kensei. You're absurdly fast, you'll have consistently good AC and can push it really high as the game goes on. 24+ with a bonus action dodge in the late game. Grab a longbow, whip, and longsword as your kensei weapons. You'll be passable at range and deadly in melee.
War Cleric. Wield a greatsword. Attack twice in a round with it. Kill everything.


This is all based off the assumption that you like high AC and melee combat. These builds aren't really 'OP,' as no melee fighter build is really OP in this edition, but they are fun. If you're open to other styles of combat, let me know.



It's not about Class v Class. It's about Class v Game and it's quite clear that some classes have multiple options to perform, even when they specialize, and some are just a bunch of commoners in a trench coat (my favorite visualization that I've seen online when it comes to how mundane martials are).

You can certainly disagree, but I could also say that the air we breathe isn't primarily composed of Nitrogen because we totally only breathe Oxygen.

You're being incredibly high-handed.

I was talking specifically about optimization (which is the same thing as specialization) at first level within the niche of the melee martial which was OP's primary interest. Within the niche of a melee martial, a Vhuman Fighter with PAM is a very strong build with high AC and DPR. GWM or HAM also have their merits.

A wizard at that level is not a generalist. They offer some utility with cantrips and rituals and can drop a bomb like Sleep 2 times a day in combat. Outside of that they plunk away for 1d10+0 damage from range, with less than 10 HP and 13 AC, or 16 AC if they drop one of their two spell slots on mage armor. They're effectively hyper-specialized to the point of forgoing all defensive and offensive ability outside of 1-2 AOE nukes. In their best case they'll trivialize 2 encounters and be a straight liability the rest of the time. In their worst case they'll go down on the first round of combat to a single goblin arrow.

Even something like a war cleric, which is very strong in general at first level, isn't really going to blow a fighter type away. They'll deal more melee damage sometimes (if they go for lower AC), and they'll provide guidance, which is great... but beyond that, what does their spellcasting really buy them at that level? Bless? It takes more than two turns for bless to pay its own value back, just in terms of action economy.

As to your sweeping generalities, this doesn't match my experience in play. Paladins and Barbarians, while specialized, are powerhouses within their niche to an extent that generalists like wizards and bards can't keep up. Obviously in bad situations, the paladins and barbs fall way behind, but that's the nature of specialization.

[Dalebert]

I say ambiguous because the RAW is "If you surprise a creature and hit it with an attack". Personally I would not interpret it this way, but I can see an argument being made that "surprise a creature" reads as fluff, while something like "if you hit a surprised creature with an attack" clearly calls out the surprised condition and removes any ambiguity.

There's no "surprised" condition. The word "surprise" has a mechanical meaning in the game that is very specifically defined in the combat section of the PHB. It's very challenging to achieve. It's usually spoiled by your non-stealthy teammates.b It's only even possible in the first round. Even then, they are no longer surprised when their initiative comes up. It's VERY challenging and if this feature seems broken, your not handling it correctly.

[noob]

IMO, if this were true, more 'magical' creatures would be hurt by it.

Instead, Silver seems more common.
Something about "purity" and being innately magical, I think.



Well, maybe I'll need to change it to just the Archfey needing magical cold iron to really hurt them.

Note that the Archfey aren't immune to regular cold iron or magic - they just take half damage from either alone.

Sidhe could be immune to non-magical damage, but affected normally by either cold iron or magical weapons.

These (slight) changes would show that Rank within the Fey matters.

The magical creatures that are dependant on magic are more often vulnerable to cold iron.
Fey for example are in that group.
But being magical does not necessarily means you need magic to live nor that your protections are magical.
For example a skeleton is resilient to piercing attacks by virtue of them going between bones and so on while a golem is resilient to attacks by virtue of being made out of a solid material and many other magical creatures are resilient due to tough hide or instantaneous regeneration(one of the fluffs for damage resistance: even if your sword countered magic perfectly while it is going through the opponent what stops being touched by cold iron regenerates instantly) which are not countered well with cold iron either.
Being good at countering magic is not a counter all defences solution.
For proof of cold iron having a magic countering nature in the previous editions cold iron was harder to enchant than the other materials.
This is why I have a problem with cold iron working better at countering dr once enchanted.
ps: by the way making non enchanted cold iron be the best counter to the fey damage reduction is going to make the fight harder because then the adventurers will not benefit from spells on weapons

[hboyce1]

I decided to create a fighter 1 rogue 2 bugbear character for apossible campaign, and I was olaytesting it when I realized that with max DEX and proficiency in stealth+sneak attack AND the racial sneak attack from bugbear that js a potential 1d8 + 3d6 + 5! at max damage that would be 32 damage at lvl 1!!!!

Hot damn, lol.

[Great Dragon]

For proof of cold iron having a magic countering nature in the previous editions cold iron was harder to enchant than the other materials.
This is why I have a problem with cold iron working better at countering dr once enchanted.
Part of the problem, is that 5e took away the Cold Iron DR completely. Now, any enchanted weapon can hurt them.

Which means that there is always a race to get those magical weapons, and normal NPCs are totally dependent on Hero PCs.
(In a game where items beyond Common are hard to get, even for Rich Nobles - Royalty might have some)

While that can make the PCs feel special at Low Levels, it would mean that even at 20th level the PCs would still be stuck rescuing the NPCs! And against 'common' Fey.
*********
By adding cold iron back in, I feel that the Fey are better represented. Even informed ‘commoners” are a threat to normal Fey, even without magic.
******
Cold Iron is hard to make and costs 1.5x normal. No increase to crafting time.

Enchanting it also costs 1.5x normal, and takes 1.5x time.
Add these together for total cost.
*******
With the PCs needing to hunt down cold iron weapons from non-fey beings as Side Quests.

If no one has cold iron weapons, or knows a location where to find them, then the PCs need to find a weaponsmith to make them.
How the PCs avoid and/or deal with the Fey in the meantime can be challenging.
(Second Tier and higher, the Fey know about the PC's attempt to find/make cold iron and will constantly interfere)


ps: by the way making non enchanted cold iron be the best counter to the fey damage reduction is going to make the fight harder because then the adventurers will not benefit from spells on weapons
As stated: Either Cold Iron or Magical Weapons still do half damage to Archfey. It's just a tough fight.

Spells would still have some effect. Especially if they added an Energy damage, since the Fey only have protection against physical attacks. (No Spell/Magic resistance)
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For my games: (Summer and Winter are at war)

Mab's Winter Fey are Resistant to Cold. But Vulnerable to Fire.

Titania's Summer Fey are Resistant to Fire. But Vulnerable to Cold.

Oberon's Fey are Resistant to Lightning. But Vulnerable to Psychic.

I need more "Wild" Archfey!!!

Plus, there are Fey that are not bothered by cold iron at all.

Leprechauns were hurt by silver.

I'd have to look up more information on others.

But, like any other creature that has Energy Resistance, once known - it can be avoided.
And Vulnerabilities can be exploited.
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However, I'll totally understand if you don't want to use my Homebrew for Sidhe and Archfey.
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I just find it very hard to believe that a 5th level Character can walk into the throne room of an Archfey and waive a magic (or even cold iron) weapon around - and have all the residents running terrified, and even the Monarch is so afraid, that they just give them whatever they demand.

Sure, I could just go Dues Ex DM and make things impossible; but I like to play the Fey as being as sneaky and hard to outsmart as the Devils. But, still having in World ways that it can be done. (For Genies, Fey, Fiends, Demons, Devils, and even Celestials)