Prestige Ranger, Bard ,and Paladin

[Promethean]

Does anyone know any 3rd party resources for turning Bard/Ranger/Pally Into prestige classes for Martial characters?

The SRD all 3 and pathfinder port of pally are all designed for a spell-caster base class. My intention for a coming campaign was to make them into prestige classes for barbarian, rogue, and fighter(non-class locked, bard-barians and Pally-rogues expected)

[zlefin]

not offhand, but something could be homebrewed pretty easily, depending on what exactly you're looking for. would that help?

[Climowitz]

You mean besides unearthed arcana's prestige bard, Paladin and ranger?

[Promethean]

not offhand, but something could be homebrewed pretty easily, depending on what exactly you're looking for. would that help?

Dang, was hoping to avoid that. know of any prestige classes I can model the casting-progression-by-level after? I don't know any 15 level haf casting classes off the top of my head.


You mean besides unearthed arcana's prestige bard, Paladin and ranger?

Those are built off the assumption that the base class is a caster. They don't work for martials and martials can't qualify.

[zlefin]

Dange was hoping to avoid that. know of any prestige classes I can model the casting-progression-by-level after? I don't know any 15 level haf casting classes off the top of my head.



Those are built off the assumption that the base class is a caster. They don't work for martials and martials can't qualify.


well, if you want to avoid that, best wait a bit to see if someone else has a better option. iirc there are a variety of 10 level prestige classes that are paladin variants. 15 level prestige classes are very rare indeed.

if you want us to homebrew something, the key questions would be:
overall power level,
number of levels in the prestige class,
what level they start getting spells at,
maximum level of spells they get.

[Bavarian itP]

What do you expect from a "Paladin"?

For example, in Complete Warrior alone, there are Prestige Classes like Cavalier, Hunter of the Dead, Justiciar, Knight of the Chalice, Knight Protector or Purple Dragon Knight. All of them have some thematic overlap with the Paladin archetype.

[Promethean]

What do you expect from a "Paladin"?

For example, in Complete Warrior alone, there are Prestige Classes like Cavalier, Hunter of the Dead, Justiciar, Knight of the Chalice, Knight Protector or Purple Dragon Knight. All of them have some thematic overlap with the Paladin archetype.

Probably going to Rework the Black-guard prestige class into a alignment-swapped version, and stuff some features from the Pathfinder version of prestige paladin for good measure.

Power level isn't going to be an issue. This is going to be a bit of a "build showcase" campaign. The prestige versions of Pally and CO. were mentioned and it struck me as semi-redundant for said prestige classes to be caster-focused when you'd think the main people trying to become bards and pallies would be the average Joe Fighter and his friend Stabby Rogues(especially considering those classes are down-grades for the average caster)

[zlefin]

There might be some very easy to do reworks still available; especially if the only real problem you had with the listed prestige pal/ranger/bard classes was figuring out how to do the alternate spell progression. were there any problems other than that?

[Bavarian itP]

The prestige versions of Pally and CO. were mentioned and it struck me as semi-redundant for said prestige classes to be caster-focused when you'd think the main people trying to become bards and pallies would be the average Joe Fighter and his friend Stabby Rogues(especially considering those classes are down-grades for the average caster)

Since the intended entry to Prestige Paladin seems to be Fighter4/Cleric1, and for Prestige Bard it's Rogue4/Wizard1, I don't see your point, to be honest.

[Promethean]

Since the intended entry to Prestige Paladin seems to be Fighter4/Cleric1, and for Prestige Bard it's Rogue4/Wizard1, I don't see your point, to be honest.

Because I don't see why anyone wouldn't just take the rest of those levels in cleric or wizard? Though, it would depend on the campaign I guess.

This campaign is one where we are throwing a lot of third party/homebrew things at the wall and seeing what stuck. This just seemed like a another thing to add to the list.

[ericgrau]

Since it's only 1 level of casting it's more like entering into a gish, which people also do all the time. But yeah while it seems like splitting hairs it doesn't hurt to do it with your own style.

Prestige ranger and paladin are almost trivial to make into prestige classes. Simply start at level 4 since that's when the casting starts. If that seems too early for a prestige class then start at level 5 or 6 but advance casting by 1 or 2 levels to match. Pre-requisites can be 1 or more things from level 1-3 of the original classes. For example ranger could require track and 6 ranks in survival. Paladin could require BAB +3 and 5 ranks in ride and/or handle animal. Smoosh the other level 1-3 abilities into the first 2 levels of the prestige class.

Bard is a little harder. Perform X ranks is a likely pre-requisite, if not also 1 or 2 other skills. You could maybe give them delayed full spell progression. So enter at level 5 and be 2 spell levels behind until they cap at spell level 6. You could simple delete levels 1,4,7,10,13,16 and 19 from their original spell progression. A little bit of an issue there is that they'll be behind on casting until level 9, behind again at level 10, totally caught up at level 11 and slightly ahead at level 15. But it's only a little behind and perhaps 4 levels of class features from another class will make up for that.

Don't forget about providing and/or requiring weapon proficiencies. Like bards get the whip and a few non-simple weapons. The ones that overlap with rogue could be nice requirements to allow either rogue or fighter entry into prestige bard. Or the prestige class might grant proficiencies. Ranger and paladin might require martial weapon proficiency to enter.

Those are really basic skeletons. You could totally add more pre-requisites and/or abilities as your own personal fluff. I was trying not to pick any particular style for you.

[Promethean]

Since it's only 1 level of casting it's more like entering into a gish, which people also do all the time. But yeah while it seems like splitting hairs it doesn't hurt to do it with your own style.

Prestige ranger and paladin are almost trivial to make into prestige classes. Simply start at level 4 since that's when the casting starts. If that seems too early for a prestige class then start at level 5 or 6 but advance casting by 1 or 2 levels to match. Pre-requisites can be 1 or more things from level 1-3 of the original classes. For example ranger could require track and 6 ranks in survival. Paladin could require BAB +3 and 5 ranks in ride and/or handle animal. Smoosh the other level 1-3 abilities into the first 2 levels of the prestige class.

Bard is a little harder. Perform X ranks is a likely pre-requisite, if not also 1 or 2 other skills. You could maybe give them delayed full spell progression. So enter at level 5 and be 2 spell levels behind until they cap at spell level 6. You could simple delete levels 1,4,7,10,13,16 and 19 from their original spell progression. A little bit of an issue there is that they'll be behind on casting until level 9, behind again at level 10, totally caught up at level 11 and slightly ahead at level 15. But it's only a little behind and perhaps 4 levels of class features from another class will make up for that.

Don't forget about providing and/or requiring weapon proficiencies. Like bards get the whip and a few non-simple weapons. The ones that overlap with rogue could be nice requirements to allow either rogue or fighter entry into prestige bard. Or the prestige class might grant proficiencies. Ranger and paladin might require martial weapon proficiency to enter.

Those are really basic skeletons. You could totally add more pre-requisites and/or abilities as your own personal fluff. I was trying not to pick any particular style for you.

This. This is good. Thank you.

[zlefin]

there's no real need to smoosh the other abilities.
the simplest method is to just use the listed prestige ranger/paladin classes for the abilities and most progression.
Use the regular classes 6-20 spell progression for the prestige version 1-15 spell progression;
and adjust the prereqs as was suggested.

bard's a bit trickier, and it basically comes down to the questions I'd asked previously that help to clarify what you're looking for.