Help understanding DM motivations

[Shinidigi]

So this is our first time around for most of us, its a party of 5. One of the other players lost his character in a fight with a dragon and rerolled at level 8 since me and him were close to leveling anyways. Im playing a straight Paladin, while he multiclassed into fighter/hexblade warlock. Anyways I have been trying real hard to get a new magic weapon since I have been using the same sword that I got since level 3. Meanwhile everybody else is being handed new magic items some of which are pretty busted. An item which was even designed for my paladin ended up in the hands of our bard who refuses to hand it up because I went out of my way to bury that character who died earlier. Meanwhile every encounter we see is designed to counter me, despite the new hexblade warlock hitting for 50ish. I spend most of the rounds combat out of the fight due to the nature of the encounters. Even being "one shot" by a character just knocking me out because pretty much he said so after I bloodied the character in question.

Now not knowing really through experience or anything, is this kind of thing normal? He isn't a new DM or anything, having DM'd other parties and such. Its just fairly frustrating that I personally gimp myself by taking a low charisma score on purpose and get singled out instead of the others who abuse getting magic items/unpublished stuff to gain the upper edge, meanwhile every item I have has been personally bought or acquired by my own doing. I can only hope and assume he is building up to make my character more relevant/viable other than taking hits and going down.

Not really sure how to bring it up without seeming like an ungrateful player, so any experienced advice would be nice.

[mephiztopheleze]

I'm really not sure what to say. Have you discussed things with your DM? How well do you know them?


I have been trying real hard to get a new magic weapon since I have been using the same sword that I got since level 3

DnD isn't like Diablo II(I). It's not a case of every couple of levels you wind up swapping most of your gear around.

What kind of weapon is it? It's absolutely not unheard of in DnD for a level 20 Character to still be using the +2 Maguffin they found before level five.


....Its just fairly frustrating that I personally gimp myself by taking a low charisma score on purpose and get singled out.......

Perhaps that has something to do with it? If this is a powergamer/wargamer style DM, then deliberately gimping your character may be giving them cognitive dissonance.

In any case, locking down the 'enemy' Paladin is almost never the Wrong Thing To Do. As a very broad brush generalisation, Paladins are often (by no means always) the target the opposing side needs to counter before bothering dishing it out to everyone else.

All I can suggest is talk it through. If you don't come to a reasonable position, find a new group.

[Shinidigi]

DnD isn't like Diablo II(I). It's not a case of every couple of levels you wind up swapping most of your gear around.

What kind of weapon is it? It's absolutely not unheard of in DnD for a level 20 Character to still be using the +2 Maguffin they found before level five.


I understand that, its just really odd that somebody gets a staff that lets them cast wall of thorns at will off of charges that recharge fairly easy, or a tabard that lets them cast shield at will and a few other bonuses with the same concept or a +2 scimitar that lets them hit 3 times on attacks, meanwhile im using a +1 longsword with no other utility that I worked really hard to get and nearly died for early on before the others were even playing the campaign. Meanwhile the other items are really just kind of "given out" for the sake of them having a magic item that is good. I could understand locking down the paladin, but why when im not the one one shotting two yetis in two rounds of combat. Sure lucky/unlucky rolls are a thing but its an overall alienating feel, unless the random +1 longsword can really be considered a maguffin while the other players get handed over free items because I happened to have spent money at a shop and the shop owner decided "well he spent a lot here so here have free silvered axes for those who didn't".

As far as the item goes, im not even sure the capabilities of it other than its supposed to be an heirloom and my brother just used it to one shot me because he feels ill towards me.

[OldTrees1]

I could understand locking down the paladin, but why when im not the one one shotting two yetis in two rounds of combat.

unless the random +1 longsword can really be considered a

I cut down your post to highlight to 2 parts I was addressing with my personal experiences.

I played a 5E Paladin from 1st to 12th level. As long as I was conscious I negated or otherwise mitigated 50% of all damage the party took. With spells it was reduced even further (encouraging a tactic mentioned below). So taking me out would have been a strong tactical move for our enemies. Of course in our group they did not get a chance to take me out because the Barbarian and Wizard (strange wizard) frontline were preventing my from being overwhelmed and the Sorceress and Wizard were destroying our enemies by fireballing our own position. All of this while the Rogue was killing the big enemies left and right. So yeah I can see the Paladin being a good tactical target.

Can you guess what weapon that 12th level Paladin wields? Some mighty Holy Avenger right? No. Merely a +1 vanilla magic weapon. I will take that olde thing all the way to 20th level because I never needed anything better. At 6th level I put down my silvered weapon and switched to the +1 weapon. This was partially because some foes don't fear silver in the same way they fear a +0 magic weapon. I did not have access to a +0 magic weapon, so I got a +1 magic weapon.

[Shinidigi]

Of course in our group they did not get a chance to take me out because the Barbarian and Wizard (strange wizard) frontline were preventing my from being overwhelmed and the Sorceress and Wizard were destroying our enemies by fireballing our own position.

Unfortunately I am the frontline, and while I wouldn't have a problem with that, its not engaging. Even when I am not on the front line they will just run past and hit me/disable me. I could get it rationally if something was intelligent but when something with an intelligence score that is low is identifying me as the big bad paladin that needs to die asap its just kinda dull. I can actually just afk because all the rounds go as follows: I get knocked out in the first round of the enemy movement. I wait. Get brought back up by somebody. My action is wasted doing something like breaking a paralysis or something like that. Rinse and repeat. I have nothing to negate or really do besides soak damage, which again wouldn't be an issue but its just not engaging. At this rate its just a matter of time for something to crit me for double my health and end the character as a whole lol.

Edit: Also again, its just rather alienating that a character was literally helped by an avatar of a god in a fight, meanwhile im a punching bag for everything to mob up on.

[OldTrees1]

Unfortunately I am the frontline

I am too. I am just not the first part of the frontline that forms. The Barbarian and Wizard break up the enemy forces and I join in the melee. They are just listed higher because one takes half damage and the other is only hit by criticals. That way I only need to deal with withstanding 25% of the enemy while each of them deals with 37.5%.

At 6th level Paladins start contributing by just being there (less so in your case). At 7th level they double down on that feature. Although I did take Inspiring Leader at 4th level.

Obviously your situation and my situation are not the same. However some of the symptoms you mentioned still exist in my game.

[Shinidigi]

However some of the symptoms you mentioned still exist in my game.

So in other words its just a normal thing and I should deal with it.

Also I wish I could contribute by just being there but I can't because im incapacitated most of the time which nullifies my aura. Plus most of the monsters we face don't use dedicated spellcasting and have it all tied into abilities so I can't help much there either. Its just unfortunate because we originally tried to gimp our characters instead of making them jack of all trades but I seem to be the only one whos truly done that. Power is coveted I guess lol.

[Unoriginal]

Ask your DM about it. They might not even realize they're doing it.

[Nidgit]

Like most problems, this is something that can be resolved through talking to your DM and fellow players.

Tell your DM you're hoping to find a cool weapon or item. If there's a general effect you're particularly interested in, go ahead and mention that (fire-enchanted, a crazy whip, an axe that lets you use a teleport, anything reasonable). If you're positive and enthusiastic, most DMs will happily plant something good for you to play with. Just don't let your Bard steal it this time.

For your durability, go ahead and ask the rest of your party for support out of character. Saying something as simple as, "it feels like I'm going down a lot, is there anything someone can do to help keep our front line in better shape?" is enough to signal that you need buffs, heals, or better control to help keep your paladin effective. If possible, do this when your DM is around so he's aware of how you're feeling too. You don't need to make it a complaint about his performance.

Lastly, avoid going into rooms first or instigating fights. It might not even be a trap, but if you're the first and only person going into a room, the orcs in there are gonna be swarming you.

[OldTrees1]

So in other words its just a normal thing and I should deal with it.

Well, I did only say "some" of the symptoms. Obviously there is more going on because you made a thread and I did not. This is obvious to everyone that read your posts. Our situations are different even if the "Paladins are good tactical targets" and "A +1 weapon is good enough" might be normal.

Others are right that you should talk to your DM. Find out more about why things are happening while also communicating how things feel to you.

[Unoriginal]

So in other words its just a normal thing and I should deal with it.

No, it's not normal.

Being unhappy while playing RPGs isn't normal and shouldn't become it.

[Wizard_Lizard]

well... If your paladin dies just make an extremely optimized murderhobo to punish the dm with...

[EdenIndustries]

No, it's not normal.

Being unhappy while playing RPGs isn't normal and shouldn't become it.

I'm going to second this. If you talk to the DM and/or the other players to express some concerns you're having, it's not like they'll go, "Well there's nothing we can do to change it." That might be true if you're playing Monopoly or something, but definitely not a an RPG! Now maybe the particular DM/group isn't inclined to do anything to address your concerns, but as many people have said, not playing is better than playing and not having fun.

[MrStabby]

So in other words its just a normal thing and I should deal with it.

Also I wish I could contribute by just being there but I can't because im incapacitated most of the time which nullifies my aura. Plus most of the monsters we face don't use dedicated spellcasting and have it all tied into abilities so I can't help much there either. Its just unfortunate because we originally tried to gimp our characters instead of making them jack of all trades but I seem to be the only one whos truly done that. Power is coveted I guess lol.

Much of what you describe is not inconsistent with a fair DM. Imagine the DM hands out powerful items on some kind of rota - cycling through players. One player has to be last. One player will always see the other players getting stuff before them. Alternatively the DM may be playing a world where NPCs, from whose corpses you gather items, may use items appropriate to their class/ethos. In which case it may be that you haven't defeated a powerful enough paladin - it is still a fair and consistent world but the DM is giving the party agency to decide who to fight. Even with the rota the DM can't account for someone else in the party taking the weapon that they went out of the way to create for you.

As for being targeted - how reasonable this is may depend on how you play. Are you up in the enemies face? Would it make sense for them to prioritise the person next to them over the person on the other side of the battle? Is it because of your aura and it is a tactically sound decision? Is it for RP reasons and a paladin is seen as the antithesis of the values of the enemies in the encounter? Are you targeted more through luck - is it by chance it has happened a few times or has it happened more to you than anyone else over a long enough time to be a pattern? Is it just that you feel it more - maybe you rolled low for HP or have low con, or the party wizard is an abjurer and others rolled high for HP?

The paladin is one of the most powerful classes so a tactical enemy might try and take them down. RP wise they tend to throw themselves courageously into danger, which can result in them being targeted. If you have casters fireballing your own party then it might seem like those with proficiency in dex saves are surviving a lot better - not due to the choices of the DM but due to PC choices.



Something might be going wrong; the DM might be screwing with you. I used to be suspicious of DMs and some of the things that happened to my character till I started to DM myself. It is difficult/impossible to be fair to all players every session; the best you can hope for is to favour different players in different sessions over the campaign and all you can set up is the world. Balance isn't just from the DM, it is also down to the choices the others in the Party make. Don't blame the DM for a bard not giving you a sword - that is between you and the bard.

So yeah - if it is really bad and if it persists then it is probably a DM issue. If it isn't so bad, then it is probably a temporary thing or due to the behaviour of the other players. As always speak to your DM.

One other thing that might help is to RP someone who is looking for a new weapon. Use downtime to research where one might be and get the party to follow a side quest to find it.

[Mercurias]

In my experience, the best solution to solving a problem where you aren't having fun in a tabletop game is to talk to the person or people who you feel are making you unhappy.

Most good DMs understand that the point of any campaign is for everyone to be enjoying themselves. If the DM tells you to suck it up or leave rather than talk things through with you, then you'll at least know it's time to look elsewhere.

I might also speak with the rest of the players and ask whether or not they have a problem with your pally. If you're at a table full of munchkins while you want to have a roleplaying epic, you might just be at the wrong table, or maybe you could have one table for munchkinry and find another game where you can dive deep into that sweet, sweet RP.

Regardless, the ultimate answer to your question is going to be that you need to talk to your table and get them to speak with you honestly about what's going on. Then you need to really listen to what they're saying. Once everybody understands one another, you'll have your next step forward.

Good luck!

[Shinidigi]

Well, all fun and games until I get personally told by the DM that the warlock isn't liking my characters stance on Undead since I let him get his use out of a spectre then killed it to put the spirit out of its misery. Even though my character has been in the party since day 1 and the warlock raising people just joined like 2 sessions ago and knew the type of group it was going into. Time to just kill my character off.

[OgataiKhan]

I was about to write "if you are really treated worse than other players in how the encounters are structured and who gets magic items then you should find a new group", but then I read "I let him get his use out of a spectre then killed it to put the spirit out of its misery".

If you are purposefully messing with other players' class features they have every right to be pissed. That spectre is a very important feature for the Hexblade, you can't go around stopping him from using it or you are ruining his fun.
If I were playing the Warlock and you attacked my spectre I would have considered it an attack against me and killed your character.

[Wryte]

If you are purposefully messing with other players' class features they have every right to be pissed. That spectre is a very important feature for the Hexblade, you can't go around stopping him from using it or you are ruining his fun.
If I were playing the Warlock and you attacked my spectre I would have considered it an attack against me and killed your character.

The specter is temporary to begin with. I don't think killing it is that big a deal, especially given that he waited until combat was over, and that the warlock's player should have known when joining the party that raising undead was likely to be a point of contention with the party's paladin.

As for the items... seriously? A tabard that grants at-will Shield? Unless he was purposely giving that to a low-AC character who was struggling to be a functional melee combatant, that is beyond broken.

If the DM is talking to you about the warlock being upset about you killing his temporary specter, but not to the bard anout refusing to hand over a permanent magic item that was meant for you, it sounds like there's a double standard in play here.

[Shinidigi]

If you are purposefully messing with other players' class features they have every right to be pissed.

I didn't mess with him, it was a kobold who was a part of a group of kobolds we were trying to negotiate with, and he toyed around with them instantly trying to kill them, killed the one in question and raised it, and pretty much almost sent the spectre to its death doing a task for him. After he was done with it I killed it. The spectre is very minor to his gameplay, he made it into a crit fisher fighter combo with an intelligence level barely above 6 (he plays the character literally stupid). He just whacks things really hard. The party has killed or dismounted me from my summon steed many times when I have the mounted combatant feat.

My character also refuses to needlessly harm nature, and so despite it not being a hard written out mechanic but rather RP due to faithfulness (which I suppose at one point WAS a mechanic), it might as well be and they burn down trees and kill animals often around me and I take it organically, instead of telling the DM that I disprove of their character out of the game. I mean raising undead in front of a paladin who disproves of undead usually resolves itself in more hostile action but again I let him at least get his use out of it and explained afterwards my motivation. Might I also add we are all essentially lawful good?

Not only does it not fit with the group, but it actually is very minor to his play style in combat, and I would argue if it is, then dont use it on a what, sub 10 health kobold?

[Teaguethebean]

Honestly tell the party how amazing you would be with the at will shield. I am gonna say that if you can just consistently get your ac to 25 you will be unkillable and all of these problems will vanish.