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kemmotar
2007-10-03, 02:20 PM
Is there anything that can give me bludgeoning immunity or at least some good DR for it? The point for this woudl be to use the vicious weapon special ability(gives you +2d6 to damage but you take 1d6 bludgeoning damage too for each attack)...Thus i need at least 1d6 bludgeoning DR but i don't know anything that does give such DR...

The Glyphstone
2007-10-03, 02:21 PM
Vicious isn't Bludgeoning damage - it's untyped damage, or at least damage of the same type as the weapon you're wielding, I'm not sure. It's definitely not bludgeoning-specific, though.

Raolin_Fenix
2007-10-03, 02:26 PM
It is unspecified energy damage (described as creating some sort of energy between you and the target). As it's untyped, there can be no DR for it. Sorry, yo.

Damionte
2007-10-03, 02:27 PM
It's untyped energy damage. No damage reduction works, nor energy resistance. If you take a vicious weapon it'll bite you.

Jasdoif
2007-10-03, 02:29 PM
As has been mentioned already, vicious' extra damage is described as "disruptive energy", and no type is given. As energy, no DR applies to it.

That said, there's a magic armor property in Complete Warrior that gives you DR 5/slashing or piercing; I don't remember what its name is though.

Person_Man
2007-10-03, 02:29 PM
From the SRD:


Vicious

When a vicious weapon strikes an opponent, it creates a flash of disruptive energy that resonates between the opponent and the wielder. This energy deals an extra 2d6 points of damage to the opponent and 1d6 points of damage to the wielder. Only melee weapons can be vicious.

You'll need the Energy Immunity spell (Draconomicon). I think it grants immunity to "all energy types." Though I have to go back and check the text to be sure.

Shhalahr Windrider
2007-10-03, 04:58 PM
You'll need the Energy Immunity spell (Draconomicon). I think it grants immunity to "all energy types." Though I have to go back and check the text to be sure.
But, as per the PHB glossary, the only types of energy from a rules perspective are Acid, Cold, Electricity, Fire, and Sonic. In this case, the term "Energy" is purely flavor description once again proving how badly the game designers need a thesaurus.

Jasdoif
2007-10-03, 05:00 PM
But, as per the PHB glossary, the only types of energy from a rules perspective are Acid, Cold, Electricity, Fire, and Sonic. In this case, the term "Energy" is purely flavor description once again proving how badly the game designers need a thesaurus.What descriptive term would you choose? I was thinking "Quasi-elemental"; but while it sounds cool, it's also confusing.

The Glyphstone
2007-10-03, 05:14 PM
"magical force"?

Shhalahr Windrider
2007-10-03, 05:24 PM
What descriptive term would you choose? I was thinking "Quasi-elemental"; but while it sounds cool, it's also confusing.
To tell the truth, I don't really have much in the way of good ideas here. Shoulda smilied it, 'cause it was supposed to be a bit of a joke.

Sorta. :smallredface:

Jasdoif
2007-10-03, 05:33 PM
"magical force"?That sounds even more ambiguous then "energy types", and looks particularly prone to confusion with force effects.



To tell the truth, I don't really have much in the way of good ideas here. Shoulda smilied it, 'cause it was supposed to be a bit of a joke.

Sorta. :smallredface:It's too bad the punchline is startlingly accurate :smalleek:

I suppose there's always the cheap "whee, add another descriptor" approach, just calling them the "primary energy types"....

silentknight
2007-10-04, 11:46 AM
While it doesn't specifically say so, "disruptive energy" could be interpreted as negative energy per the spell Disrupt Undead. That was the way I read it the first time I saw the weapon ability. Seemed like an obvious choice for undead monsters that wield weapons, because, otherwise, I don't see why any creature would use a weapon that hurts them when they use it even if it does do bonus damage to their target.

kjones
2007-10-04, 11:49 AM
While it doesn't specifically say so, "disruptive energy" could be interpreted as negative energy per the spell Disrupt Undead. That was the way I read it the first time I saw the weapon ability. Seemed like an obvious choice for undead monsters that wield weapons, because, otherwise, I don't see why any creature would use a weapon that hurts them when they use it even if it does do bonus damage to their target.

But, see, it isn't any of those things.

The advantage to vicious weapons is that it adds 2d6 damage to everything, which nothing else can really do. Useful if you need to do a lot of damage and have lots of HP, not terribly useful in any other circumstances.

But who said every magic ability had to be useful?

Jasdoif
2007-10-04, 11:52 AM
While it doesn't specifically say so, "disruptive energy" could be interpreted as negative energy per the spell Disrupt Undead. That was the way I read it the first time I saw the weapon ability.A major problem with the interpretation is that Disrupt undead (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/disruptUndead.htm) is a ray of positive energy.


Seemed like an obvious choice for undead monsters that wield weapons, because, otherwise, I don't see why any creature would use a weapon that hurts them when they use it even if it does do bonus damage to their target.Creatures with regeneration, most likely. Unless their regeneration is bypassed by typeless energy, but I'm not aware of any such creature.

Darrin
2007-10-04, 12:17 PM
Creatures with regeneration, most likely. Unless their regeneration is bypassed by typeless energy, but I'm not aware of any such creature.

In Dragon #319, there's a regional feat called Troll-Blooded that gives you Regeneration 1. Requires Toughness, 1st level only, and exposure to sunlight causes fatigue. This would convert the vicious weapon damage to nonlethal damage. I'm not sure what happens with DR at that point... I would think DR applies before Regeneration.

What about Crusaders? They have that damage buffer thing... I forget what it's called, but does that convert typed or untyped damage into something DR can prevent?

Also, kind of expensive, but consider adding the Dancing weapon ability to a Vicious Weapon. Hmm. What about thrown weapons?

Keld Denar
2007-10-04, 01:58 PM
Vicious is an outstanding weapon upgrade. Its not an energy type, that's the glory of it. The damage it deals is not succeptable to ANY reduction. Ever. Unless maybe you were immune to ALL forms of damage from something, which I can only think of a couple things off the top of my head, none of which are really worth burning against a visious weapon. Really, its probably one of the better weapon upgrades, probably next to Concussion (MIC). Holy (also +2d6) is countered by neutral creatures, such as most animals and even most magical beasts and some aberations (oozes and such). The standard energy types (fire, frost, shock, even acid or sonic) are often resisted, especially any time you fight anything outsiderish. Wounding is arguably better for things with more than 8 HD, but useless against undead and anything else immune to ability damage. Vicious is useful ALL the time, the return damage is minimal. At around level 13-15, you either kill the giant in the full attack, or it full attacks you back for over a 100 damage that makes the 10-15 you took from visious look like scratches.

Plus, its gravy seeing the look on the clerics face when you full attack something while you have shield other linking your damage taken.

PS, the most damage I've ever seen a character take in a round from a visious weapon involved the whirling blade spell (followed by a quickened whirling blade spell), a viscious dwarven waraxe, and a crouded room. Something like 24d6. Kind of funny, dropped the cleric with the shield other down to about 1/2 hp just from watching it. He was NOT amused.

kemmotar
2007-10-04, 02:12 PM
I think i saw it somewhere different than the DMG where it says disruptive energy, i think it said that you deal the extra damage to the opponent and to yourself is dealt as the same type you deal with your weapon. Thus bludgeoning for an unarmed monk(that's how it came to mind)...if you deal extra damage as bludgeoning and you take bludgeoning damage, if you have DR6 to bludgeoning then you get an extra 2d6 damage free:smallbiggrin:

Jasdoif
2007-10-04, 02:31 PM
I think i saw it somewhere different than the DMG where it says disruptive energy, i think it said that you deal the extra damage to the opponent and to yourself is dealt as the same type you deal with your weapon.Where'd you see it, then? It appears no one else who's posted here has seen that.

Fighteer
2007-10-04, 02:43 PM
Wouldn't untyped Damage Reduction, such as that gained by the Barbarian, reduce this type of damage? I admit to not having the SRD in front of me, but I thought that was the whole point of it.

Jasdoif
2007-10-04, 02:44 PM
Wouldn't untyped Damage Reduction, such as that gained by the Barbarian, reduce this type of damage? I admit to not having the SRD in front of me, but I thought that was the whole point of it.DR never applies to energy damage. Even regular fire bypasses it.

The_Snark
2007-10-04, 02:46 PM
Although the weapon doesn't specify this, I wouldn't allow damage of this sort to be negated by any form of damage reduction or energy resistance. DR reduces damage taken from weapon attacks; this isn't one. I would count the damage as unpreventable. The weapon is drawing on whatever happens to power your body, whether it's positive energy, negative energy, or something else.

Edit- It's not energy damage any more than a warlock's eldritch blast is. The damage is untyped.

Fighteer
2007-10-04, 02:46 PM
DR never applies to energy damage. Even regular fire bypasses it.
Oh, yeah, that's right. I knew there was something I was missing. Thanks.

Jasdoif
2007-10-04, 02:54 PM
Edit- It's not energy damage any more than a warlock's eldritch blast is. The damage is untyped.I dunno...the weapon property states that energy is dealing the damage. I suppose it's not entirely conclusive....

The_Snark
2007-10-04, 02:59 PM
That's the flavor text. Eldritch Blast's flavor text states that it is baleful magical energy, but it's pretty solidly accepted as untyped damage.