How would you adjust xp for bad guys wearing magical treasure?

[MrFahrenheit]

So I’m going to be implementing a new idea I had for my party’s upcoming encounter with a BBEG: instead of merely having the magical items they’ll find in a chest or locked away somewhere in the throne room, the bad guy will be WEARING the magical treasure. In specific, my party of five level 9s is going up against:

Bad guy - vampire
Ring 1: ring of evasion (this is for the party wizard)
Ring 2: ring of water walking (for the rogue)
Cloak: cloak of psychic resistance (for the barbarian)
Armor: mithral full plate (for the cleric)
Gloves: gloves of missile snaring (for the fighter)

So, how would you adjust xp? The wizard isn’t a big mind spike user, so I doubt the cloak will matter much, and there’s no running water nearby, so same goes for ring #2. That being said, everything else will have utility in some manner.

(EDIT: formatting).

[Sigreid]

Personally, I just wouldn't.

[MrFahrenheit]

Personally, I just wouldn't.

That’s fair, and is one of my considerations, tbh. However, I’m more interested in answers not from an xp reward perspective, but from calculating encounter xp in the first place.

Which ultimately may be very difficult to do. For the sake of example, a CR 1/2 with an AC of 12 would see a noticeable challenge jump if they suddenly donned full plate, whereas a CR 17 with AC 17 would hardly see the same.

[Phoenix042]

So I’m going to be implementing a new idea I had for my party’s upcoming encounter with a BBEG: instead of merely having the magical items they’ll find in a chest or locked away somewhere in the throne room, the bad guy will be WEARING the magical treasure. In specific, my party of five level 9s is going up against:

Bad guy - vampire
Ring 1: ring of evasion (this is for the party wizard)
Ring 2: ring of water walking (for the rogue)
Cloak: cloak of psychic resistance (for the barbarian)
Armor: mithral full plate (for the cleric)
Gloves: gloves of missile snaring (for the fighter)

So, how would you adjust xp? The wizard isn’t a big mind spike user, so I doubt the cloak will matter much, and there’s no running water nearby, so same goes for ring #2. That being said, everything else will have utility in some manner.

(EDIT: formatting).

You often shouldn't modify the xp reward for making an encounter more challenging or dynamic in indirect ways.

Typically, you should only modify the challenge and the xp reward when you've changed some raw combat numbers (HP, AC, attack or number of attacks, damage on a hit) or given the bad guy access to some powers that have the indirect effect of substantially boosting his survivability or damage output.


Edit: The full plate is actually the real question; does it change his AC significantly from the stat block?

[Dr. Cliché]

So I’m going to be implementing a new idea I had for my party’s upcoming encounter with a BBEG: instead of merely having the magical items they’ll find in a chest or locked away somewhere in the throne room, the bad guy will be WEARING the magical treasure. In specific, my party of five level 9s is going up against:

Bad guy - vampire
Ring 1: ring of evasion (this is for the party wizard)
Ring 2: ring of water walking (for the rogue)
Cloak: cloak of psychic resistance (for the barbarian)
Armor: mithral full plate (for the cleric)
Gloves: gloves of missile snaring (for the fighter)

So, how would you adjust xp? The wizard isn’t a big mind spike user, so I doubt the cloak will matter much, and there’s no running water nearby, so same goes for ring #2. That being said, everything else will have utility in some manner.

(EDIT: formatting).

See, if I was going to do this I'd want the villain to have just 1-2 pieces of magical gear that make sense for him - not a bunch of random crap that will conveniently be perfect for the party.

Anyway, in this case, I'd have to know more about the party before I could consider CR adjustments. e.g. how many Dexterity saves is he likely to have to make?

[Doug Lampert]

You're specifically giving this guy items the party can use. Why give extra XP too?!

They're getting an extra reward already. If they win, they get all the loot.

[PhoenixPhyre]

The "default" way of doing it is to adjust CR (and thus XP) for magical items that affect CR.

The easiest ones are
* AC boosts (+X armor)
* ATK/spell-DC boosts (+X weapons)
* HP boosts (amulet of constitution or whatever)
* Direct damage boosts (ie flametongue)

Items that emulate features should be checked against the table in the DMG to see if they affect CR. A ring of evasion might be seen as similar to the demilich's Avoidance feature, which is listed as +1 AC. Etc.

Generally, things other than the 4 listed will have minimal effect on CR in my experience. A +2 weapon or armor is likely to shift CR upward by 1 step, more at low CR. For damage, an increase of about 15 damage is required to shift by 1 CR overall, less if it's combined with an attack boost. HP needs to increase by about 30/CR gained.

[GlenSmash!]

Personally, I just wouldn't.

Same. The magic items will be additional reward enough.

[darkrose50]

Same. The magic items will be additional reward enough.

I agree.

Also in times of yore XP was based on GP value.

Ring of Evasion 5000 GP
Ring of Water Walking 1500 GP
cloak of psychic resistance 6000 GP?
Mithral full plate ~2300 GP?
gloves of missile snaring 3000 GP

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?424243-Sane-Magic-Item-Prices

[Rukelnikov]

The magic items are an extra reward themselves, no need for extra XP too.

[Lunali]

I wouldn't adjust it at all, but if you were going to, base their CR on their estimated damage output and ability to stay alive with the gear equipped.

[mephiztopheleze]

So I’m going to be implementing a new idea I had for my party’s upcoming encounter with a BBEG: instead of merely having the magical items they’ll find in a chest or locked away somewhere in the throne room, the bad guy will be WEARING the magical treasure.

This may be a new idea for you, but it's also the exact same method my DM used when I were but a youngling back in the 1ed days and it's the method used by pretty much every DM I've played with. I use it when I DM.

If the BBEG has such treasures, it only stands to reason that they'll make full use of them in a fight to the death.

The treasure for the evil Anti-Paladin included a Vorpal Unholy Reaver Sword? You can bet that the Anti-Paladin is gonna be wielding that sucker in the fight, full Vorpal effects and all.

As for extra XP, not if they plan on making use of said itamz. They just got a bunch of sweet magick itamz. My old aforementioned DM would only give XP for an itam in certain circumstances, like when we destroyed the aforementioned Vorpal Unholy Reaver (it was sentient and evil and our party Paladin insisted we needed to destroy it, which was a whole adventure on its own).

[Great Dragon]

Hello, MrFahrenheit!

First: This really depends on how often the PCs get magical items, and what they have when they encounter the Vampire.

Since the items are part of the Treasure, I would not count any magical abilities as adding Exp.

I just recently looked up Vampire for the Vampire of Waterdeep.
(in another thread. I can add link later if you're interested)

Base Vampire: CR 12.
Warrior or Spellcaster Vampire: CR 15.
Combined Vampire: at least CR 16, IMO.

The Armor might bump the Vampire to CR 15, while the rest of the items just add some flavor.

Even for 5 level Nine PCs, even the Basic Vampire is a Very Hard and Deadly fight!! But, just causing the Vampire to become Mist and flee should count as Victory and give the items.

Remember that Vampires can be just as hard to permanently get rid of as Liches and Mummy Lords. An experienced Vampire never has only one coffin within the 2 hour traveling (by mist) distance.

Hope this helps.

[Brookshw]

cloak of psychic resistance 6000 GP?


Why do I feel that (a) the cloak is just lined with tinfoil; and (b) 6,000 GP is a lot to pay for a tinfoil lined cloak?

[darknite]

Personally, I just wouldn't.

This. The players get the loot so they don't need the extra xp, too.