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Aotrs Commander
2019-04-29, 11:08 AM
Bit of collective brainstorming, if I may pick the Playground's brain, since I'm a bit DM's blocked out here. I've been trying to work on this quest for a couple of weeks now - it's a big-two parter for my 40th in October - and I'm sort of stuck at the early stage and finding myself more procrastinating than writing (doing things like, for example, writing up a post asking for help...!) So, I'm hoping if I lay the thing out here, you fine folk might be able to, at least, help me rigidly define my areas of doubt and uncertainty and might provide a spark to break through the DM's block. (Hell, sometimes just laying this out for someone else sometimes gives me some ideas.)

Situation.

(System is Rolemaster/SpaceMaster.)

The PCs are afflicted with a Magical Bad Thing which if left unfixed, might do extensive Bad Things to the galaxy. To fix the Magical Bad Thing, they need to get to an ancient hidden magical temple in a pocket dimension and conduct a ritual, for which they have been given the appropriate tools (given that only one of them is a spellcaster, the tools are appropriately user-friendly).

They have a rough idea of the what bit of the world to look for said pocket dimension in, which should be somewhere in one valley an area of several valleys in one of several valleys of which there are "at least four likely possiblities and a dozen less-likely ones."

Problem.

Said world is a fairly old and established planet in the Aotrs (Tusharnos) - albiet it one that it relatively lightly inhabited comparitively. Due to the world being All Fracked Up ten thousand years ago, in shorthand, can be thought of as a place full of, like, deep craters and stuff surrounded by near-impassable mountains which are essentially mostly isolated from each other and thus most of the planet are more like Aotrs tributaries of relativel low tech-level (down to even pre-industrial). (So it is not quite as bad as it might be.)

But, otherwise, you are looking at one of the homeworlds of a high-tech (FTL capable and +50% over the galactic average tech level), well-organised Lawful Evil civilisation. (Possibility exists that the Aotrs long ago found this pocket dimension. In practise, they haven't, but the PCs have no way to know that.) (I'd be like, I dunno, whatever was the second or third major colony established in Star Trek or something, if not quite, (say) actual Vulcan.)

The PCs have their own spacecraft (which does not have teleporters), plus a grav ground car and a grav APC so travellign around on the deck. They have access to an much more advanced ally (the Shardan) who is prepared to take them there in their cloaked ship (which is Sufficiently Advanced that the Aotrs likely can't find it unless they look for it and they'd struggle even then - as long as it stays cloaked). The PC's vessel absolutely cannot be fitted with a similar cloaking device (in the same way you can't play a Youtube video on a grammarphone).



Thus, their options for getting down to the planet would seem to be:

The Shardan can send a vessel to bring them in under cloak to the planet and hover around to retrieve them. There are a couple of issues with this however. If the PCs are dropped off in orbit, they might well be detected as soon as they leave the cloak. Cloaked vessels do not handle atmosphere well, so the Shardan ship actually getting down into the atmosphere is even more likely to be noticed.

Teleporting the PCs from the Shardan ship might be an option, but the problem there is that, on foot, they might have a lot of ground to cover (plus repeated orbit to surface teleports increases the risk of being detected); teleporting the PC's ship (or their ground vehicles) down might itself is one option, but again, it has a higher detection.

The PCs have a limited ability to teleport thanks to their mage, which (on looking it up) gives them up to 120 miles for two targets per casting, which would be far less detectable, but a) uses a lot of the mage's resources and b) has the traditional teleport-error problem. (Teleport I is slightly less unfriendly that Teleport in D&D in those terms, it's a 50% failure for unseen and 25% for studied.) There are about a dozen PCs and NPCs in the party and the ALL at some point, if not to start with, need to be gotten to the pocket dimension for the ritual.

The PCs might try to slip in under a credible cover story, but of course, getting into one of the major worlds of a major power by forging documentation might prove… Challenging. (They are also... Not the most stuble crowd.)

The PCs might even brazenly try to ask the Aotrs directly for permission. (On the one hand, they have even once met Lord Death Despoil, the Aotrs leader. On the other hand, Lord Death Despoil has met the party.) How quickly they would be granted that (even if they were) and how much supervision they would be placed under (and thus whether they would be allowed any of the inevitable loot...) is a good question. Further, it would be entirely possible for the Aotrs to kill them and use their bodies in the ritual to get rid of the Magical Bad Thing as a cursory glance at the ritual datapads would indicate. (So even "but it would save the universe" isn't necessarily a reliable bargining chip.)

Can anyone think of any other possible options that they might have oir how else they might pursue this task?



This bit of the quest is supposed to be an "oh CRAP!" moment for the PCs as they realise where they have to go, but at the same time, is not intended to be a huge part of the adventure. This quest, as I say, is intended to be a two-day job, in which getting to the pocket dimension is going to be the first day's worth. It should make them have to have a bit of a think (and worry), but shouldn't dominate the game.

(And symbolically, the PCs having the last part on an Aotrs planet is passing the torch to the Aotrs party who will be taking over more in regular quest rotation in their stead - this world is actually one of the Aotrs character's homeworlds. Actually having them run into said party was something I had considered, but a) 6th to 12th level gap and b) the timeline of the Aotrs group isn't at the current time yet for various reasons1.

My nominal plan is to have the portal be in open space, necessitating them taking the ship in. And in the true fashion of The Series Finale (as this is the final adventure for a party we've had for twenty years), I half-intend to get them shot down or at least the ship knackered, since that and the piles and piles and piles of money they will get at the end of the quest (when balance is irrevelvant!) will be the excuse for them to retire and go their seperate ways. But that is only a half-plan. The bit that is set in stone is "temple in pocket dimension on Aotrs planet" and the final boss and his mooks within said temple. (Because what better way to capstone a twenty-year tun than with a big dragon fight, except the dragon in a martial-artist with superspeed and shields!)

Thus, this bit is not supposed to be an impossible task, nor am I intending for them to have huge difficulties in practise. (It should just SEEM like I am!)

The current problem I'm having is I'm finding myself sort of stuck, because having set this task, I'm still sort of flailing around on starting the next bit, since the first bit is kind of important as setting up the boundary conditions for the "finding the portal" bit. My current nominal plan for the portal is that it is protected by some sort of Wibbly Thing which means while the sensors might be able to pick it up (from the Shardan ship or the PCs), they can't find the valley. (So it is a case of the PCs on the deck being told "it's there, you right next to it" and the PCs going "nope, can't see nothing.)" And likely perhaps some interaction with some of the planet's comparitvely primitve denizens. (I.e. what amount to a minor isolated tribe of village, of the sort that is mostly just left to their own devices except for the rare occason where the Aotrs come by for some tribute to remind them they are still subjects; a relatively neutral party, then, that isn't likely willing nor able to immediately get on the blower to the Aotrs, nor to react with primitive terror at the PCs showing up.)

Any suggestions, comments would be helpful, as always!



1The Magical Bad Thing is basically a retcon excuse, spun into a four-part concluding arc, as to why the party has been existing in Marvel Comic Book Time (i.e. have not aged twenty-odd years in twenty-odd years of playing this party), after things elsewhere got so complicated that I actually had to start having a proper timeline advancing, essentially, in real-time and the PCs not aging or anything became massiuve inconsistent with current galactic events. Thus not going to introduce MORE temporal problems as part of fixing one...!)

Great Dragon
2019-05-03, 02:05 AM
While I have not played that game system, I have some ideas pulled from Sci-fi +Fantasy games.

If they have access to - or can build/create - a (jerry-rigged) Jamming Device, installing it into/onto their Ship can be a challenge.

Or - perhaps their Caster has access to a Spell/Ritual to do the same Jamming effect?

Either option will allow them to leave the Cloaked Ship while in space undetected. But, perhaps a Navigation skill check to arrive before Time Runs Out and a Piloting skill check is needed to slow their ship's descent into the atmosphere enough to avoid detection.

If the Players think of having something being launched in a different direction as a distraction, maybe allow a bonus to the pilot's skill check (for teamwork)

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It looks like Teleporting the entire team (NPCs) in is a little harder. Maybe having the Party beam down near a Sensor/Defense Tower? Once deactivated, the NPCs can be Teleported down from orbit.
Even if successful, the Party needs to lead/get the NPCs to the Location. Normal traveling and encounter antics (plus NPC-based Drama) apply.

Detection at any point means that the Party needs to deal with the Local Enforcement people, with your mentioned problem of convincing them of the need to do this Ritual. But, maybe the Party's acceptance of a (Side) “Quest” to be done first might allow the Ritual to proceed? Note: enforced Time Limits will really keep the pressure on!

Once at The Location, the Party is now in a “Defense Tower” type of situation. Set up the Area including not just contents but also entrance/exits, and what/who -ever is trying to get in (and any goals these have - from Stop Ritual to Kill Everyone) and make the Players figure out ways to protect the Location (Ritual).
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As for the "not Aging" thing, time is wierd in pocket dimensions?.....

Aotrs Commander
2019-05-05, 09:13 AM
While I have not played that game system, I have some ideas pulled from Sci-fi +Fantasy games.

If they have access to - or can build/create - a (jerry-rigged) Jamming Device, installing it into/onto their Ship can be a challenge.

Or - perhaps their Caster has access to a Spell/Ritual to do the same Jamming effect?

Either option will allow them to leave the Cloaked Ship while in space undetected. But, perhaps a Navigation skill check to arrive before Time Runs Out and a Piloting skill check is needed to slow their ship's descent into the atmosphere enough to avoid detection.

If the Players think of having something being launched in a different direction as a distraction, maybe allow a bonus to the pilot's skill check (for teamwork)

I was thinking about this this morning (have't had much chance, since my weekend is Sun-Mon) and I was ready to say that it was simply beyond the PCs to make any kind of jamming device against technology basically better than theirs (actually, technically, thei power generator is top-tier tchnologym, but that just makes it HARDER to mask) - plus it wold have had the same problem as a cloak.

But the I thought about a bit more, and realised there may be a way, if they think very carefuklly. Theygot this ship in the first place during an encounter with pirates, the end result of which had the ship make a random hyperspace jump and they crashed landed on the Aotrs' capital world, Fearmore.

(Fearmore is the political, rather than administrative capital - it's actually sparsely populated aside from the area around the Citidel, on the basis that the majority of life as killed and re-animated as animated Undead long past and its location is semi-secret, so it doesn't have QUITE as many eyes on it all the time (since hyperspace mishaps aside, it's difficult to get that far into Aotrs space without being detected and the PCs caught it when the boss wasn't at home AND during a lull when nthe Aotrs starfleet's 10th generation was still being rolled out.)

They found something there they they might be able to use to dampen their signature, if they remember they have the material. Problem is,the up-shot of that miadventure was Lord Death Despoil caught them and made them help him do stuff once. He ALSO slipped them a rather nice magic ring, which the engineer specifically has, which among stuff like a big DB bonus and immunity to non-magic fire also allows him to, if he wills it, keep and eye on the PCs and take mental control of said engineer. Which means when the later-coming archmage tried to send information on this material to her home, she ws prevented by said engineer (which it their best chane of remembering it at all, since otherwise it's been sitting in their lab).

Now, the Shardan can relatively easily get the ring off the dude. (Actually they could if they stun him unconsious or something.)

Lord Death Despoil is a busy Lichemaster though, so he's basically set it (not that THEY know that) to basically ping him if they try anything with that material especially... But there is still a very small chance his metaphorical ears might prick up, so it would be wise of the PCs to remember that. (The engineer is also one of the many NPCs, his player having lon left us. I had to keep him around, on the basis he was the ONLY dude with the engineering skills.)

So, you HAVE given me at least one option to write up, after all (and, actually, it might even be their BEST option, come to that, but only if they think about it... I MIGHT give them a little prod, especially if they're stumped, but we'll see.)



It looks like Teleporting the entire team (NPCs) in is a little harder. Maybe having the Party beam down near a Sensor/Defense Tower? Once deactivated, the NPCs can be Teleported down from orbit.
Even if successful, the Party needs to lead/get the NPCs to the Location. Normal traveling and encounter antics (plus NPC-based Drama) apply.

Detection at any point means that the Party needs to deal with the Local Enforcement people, with your mentioned problem of convincing them of the need to do this Ritual. But, maybe the Party's acceptance of a (Side) “Quest” to be done first might allow the Ritual to proceed? Note: enforced Time Limits will really keep the pressure on!

Once at The Location, the Party is now in a “Defense Tower” type of situation. Set up the Area including not just contents but also entrance/exits, and what/who -ever is trying to get in (and any goals these have - from Stop Ritual to Kill Everyone) and make the Players figure out ways to protect the Location (Ritual).

I hadn't thought of that, and gave it some consideration... But ultimately, the problem is just straight that there's no one set of sensors looking at a particular bit, it's the sensors of every ship and station in the system. They'll be nothing on the ground near where the PCs want to go (by design, once they get on the ground, they are basically not going to get discovered).

Infiltrating via the spaceports or populated areas will be... A very dangerous option, give the size of the group, the inability of at least two characters not to be themselves (if RM had alignments, it'd be a toss-up whether they counted as CE or the worst interpretation of CN - and again, both are NPCs (one of whom whose player left long ago I've been ctively tryig to kill to cut the chaff down for years...) That places them right in the place they'll get most scuteny and a good four of them are noticably not species that you would expect to normally find on an Aotrs planet (and not be part of the Aotrs proper (i.e. military or subsidiaries)).




As for the "not Aging" thing, time is wierd in pocket dimensions?.....

There is no short explanation of this, so:

Two characters, one NPC and one secondary PC originated in a different party, who were summoned from all sorts of different points of time and space by a god of time, Tyme and told they were fated to kill a Time Drake (i.e. a time dragon). The party did so at the end of their adventures, at (what in their understanding was) the "leading edge of time" in the far future (how true this is is unclear, but Tyme, at least believed it). Their "reward" was basically to be dumped back rather carelessly, because Tyme is a diety who doesn't reall give a frack. We only know what happened to the pair of them, that they were dumped out in the (then!) present in different locations. The NPC (and for a time or two, my PC) showed up and joined the current party, the secondary PC turned up later.

During the course of their early adventures (actually in a big crossover event for my 18th, so 22 years ago...), the PCs ran into some Eldritch Horrors.

(Many years later, the DM needed to explain why, now that the universe had to have an actual timeline which advanced in real-time, why the PCs were still on comic book time and haden't aged at all.)

Turns out that the lingering effects of Hel-Jen's temporal misadvantures plus exposure to the Vlathachna's reality-warping presence had combined to make an extremely powerful subtle and lingering curse, which basically slowed down imperceptibly the passage of time (and simultaneously muddled their perception of it). This effect is contagious over continuous exposure, a process accelerated once they met back up with Miss Storm. So anywhere they spent any lenght of time would also be affected by this curse (which, fortunately for them all, as mostly been their ship and one backwater primitie planet they crashed on for a bit), and it has been getting steadily stronger. If not removed, it will eventually simply slow the entire universe down to a single frozen moment. Worse, the effect doesn't care if the PCs are dead or alive - it MIGHT not affect their souls but it shure as hell effects bodies (and objects).

Particularly in hyperspace, the have been basically bleeding time and being prevents from realising it. So despite it being 22 years, Hel Jen is still 16. They discovered this finally at the end of another adventure, whe they talked to some really high-level dudes they'd met once before and said dudes were like "but that was ten years ago!" Dun dun duuuuuh! (The engineer chap has taken this REALLY hard, because he had a wife and kids back at home and now he knows and the perception-prevention effects has gone, he's kind of in a bad state.) Said high-level dudes passed the PCs onto the Shardan, who have been working to help the PCs. To break the curse, the Shardan needed at least three (to triangulate) artefacts of Tyme (i.e. magical items of his perview). (Tyme was part of the Xakkath Demon Wars which happened about ten thousand years ago across all (for what of brevity, since explaining this would take EVEN LONGER) the "fantasy" planets in the galaxy.) With the galaxy basically going all up the spout in the last few years, they've has to send the PCs out for fetching them. (I.e. the last three adventures of this final arc.) In between, the PCs, inside their ship, have been in a super-high-tech temporal isolation chamber, which is trying really hard to reduce the effects (noticably, though to the PCs, even with that, it's now about a week to a year...)

The Shardan's best magic-y guy has now conconcted a ritual to get shot of said curse. Problem is, it basically requires it to be scoured off by expsoure to a concentrated burst of temportal energy (the PCs should survive without getting aged too much physically, probably...), something that would basically mean any attempt for the Shardan to do it would break allthe stuff they were going to use TO do it. So Mr magic-chap reckons that the perfect place to do it is a lost temple to Tyme, which had a fountain of youth and recided in a pocket dimension. Ideal location - the fountain provides a suitably compatible temporal energy source to use for the ritual, the temple itself is naturally resistent to temporal energy, and anything the temple doesn't get will be contained to the pocket dimension, rather than massively aging chunks of the universe.

Just that trifling problem of it being located on a major world of a hostile Lawful Evil power who happens top be in the top ten of the galkaxy's superpowers and technological (and magical) advancement.

Great Dragon
2019-05-05, 10:34 PM
At least I helped a little.

For the Cloaked Idea: looks like most everything is in place and all that is needed is the PCs figuring out how to do it. Engineer guy is not much help, due to the loss of family (time). Heavy RP might help him, though.
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For the Teleportation Idea, you could have one of the NPC guys decide to beam themselves down (perhaps to claim the Location for {personal} reasons, but they're not really familiar with how the controls work, and end up beaming themselves somewhere random) - which sets off all the alarms, but only the destination was determined and the Baddies rush off after that. This could work with either the guy you kinda want Dead anyway, or the CN guy.

If you don't want to use that, give the PCs a clue to beam something at random to cause the “Wild Goose Chase for Evil Guys”.

But, with either, there's a catch, the PCs need to act fast to get the rest of the NPCs - including Engineer guy with Ring - down to the surface.

Also, maybe a few lesser Evil Guys got lucky and detected the origin of the beam, but being over-enthusiastic glory hounds don't tell their Superiors, and beam in to confront the PCs directly. I'll leave any encounter balancing with these to you.
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Unless someone in the Party has the ability/spell to detect magic, and thinks to use it on the Ring - it's most likely going to go unnoticed. Especially since it was set to only go off under a specific condition.

Could also be used to explain how the Archlich finds out about their Plan, and sends it's own Minions at them. You know, being way too busy to show up itself.
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As for the unusual Races, unless the Party goes through the Space Station (or some kind of Nomad Band or Village on the surface), this most likely won't be much of a problem.
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Time Traveling is always a pain for me.
But, it looks like you have most of it under control.

Aotrs Commander
2019-05-06, 09:28 AM
At least I helped a little.

You did indeed.


For the Teleportation Idea, you could have one of the NPC guys decide to beam themselves down (perhaps to claim the Location for {personal} reasons, but they're not really familiar with how the controls work, and end up beaming themselves somewhere random) - which sets off all the alarms, but only the destination was determined and the Baddies rush off after that. This could work with either the guy you kinda want Dead anyway, or the CN guy.

No, the the PCs teleporting themselves aside from via the Archmage (in this context, by-the-by, that's a proffession (i.e. class), not a title) is definitevely off the table; their ship doesn't have a teleporter - and even if it did you do NOT want to try futzing with a teleporter with the appropriate skills - and the Shardan, having basic security protocols (unlike Star Fleet...) simply won't work for someone that isn't a member of their crew.[/quote]


Unless someone in the Party has the ability/spell to detect magic, and thinks to use it on the Ring - it's most likely going to go unnoticed. Especially since it was set to only go off under a specific condition.

Not only is the parties detect magic "the Archmage looks at it" (she has visual power perception, it'd have been impossible for her to miss it by this stage in the game), she was, stated, the one who found out that the engineer was subject to control. (Kinda obvious, really since, it was basically the only magic item he owns.) It is just a case of the player remembering, for which (and given this is likely the optimum solution), I am prepared to send a nudge in their direction if they approach the ball-park.


Could also be used to explain how the Archlich finds out about their Plan, and sends it's own Minions at them. You know, being way too busy to show up itself.

Oh, trust me, if Lord Death Despoil decided to take time out of his busy day to personally intercede, they would be SCREWED. They've met him twice, and at least one member of the party permenantly automatically soils themselves at the mere sight of him and that was with his natural fear aura turned OFF. I (conservatively) stated him out at level 100 (which is... well, it's difficult to directly give a consersion into D&D from RM, but something on the order of level 40 to 100, depending on how you want to gauge it; the PCs, are, by comparison, level 12.

But he is the ruler of a major power, and the Shardan help will only go so far if the Aotrs start actively looking for the PCs. If they don't get permission from the Aotrs (which, despite their fears, they would - but at a very hefty price, and not just to them), they absolutely need to avoid contact and keep it on the down-low, as having a well-organised high-tech band of selected-for-porfessionalism magic space-liches looking for specifcally you is not going to go well...!


As for the unusual Races, unless the Party goes through the Space Station (or some kind of Nomad Band or Village on the surface), this most likely won't be much of a problem.

Yes, interacting with the isoloated tribes doesn't matter, but entering any civilised (relatively, in this case) settlement would be. as they say, quite bad.



Like I said, at least this helps to rigidly define what my areas of doubt an uncertainty are! Sometimes, if you're not sure, just knowing what you don't want helps narrow down what you do.



Edit: of course the most important thing to do next is the all-critical task of Creating a Punny Title For the Quest Which Is A DM's Private Joke That The Players Never Here, currently "The End Tymes" or "Any Lich Way Is Lose" or "One Shade of Grey Lizard...." (Partial to that middle one, I think.)

Great Dragon
2019-05-06, 01:37 PM
So. Let me think.

Archmage (class) has Teleportation.
Now, them using this risks Detection for a quick way in. The bigger the Group, the harder to hide. Not sure how anyone else in the party can really help, here. Assist in making (tech/magic) devices to act as distractions, and literally hurl them out some airlocks? THEN do Group Teleport spell?

The Shardan Teleport Device is not only Locked Out (I really think Gene {ST} had a warped [heh] sense of humor and knowingly left the Transporters Unlocked for Plot hijinks) But, trying to use this without the correct skill is A Bad Idea. Which is exactly why I suggested for the "unwanted" NPCs to try it. 😜

I'm also guessing that Transportation Devices are NOT small - ie D&D's "Helm of Teleportation"?
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Let me know if you still want to use the Minor Evil “Minion” Encounter. I think it would be funny, as each one tries to undermine the others in their own group, while still trying to capture the Party!

Also gives a way for the Party to try and get Permission. But, the minions would have to relay the request, wait for processing and reply. AND deal with problems for not following proper procedures!!!
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I also like the middle title.

Aotrs Commander
2019-05-06, 05:41 PM
So. Let me think.

Archmage (class) has Teleportation.
Now, them using this risks Detection for a quick way in. The bigger the Group, the harder to hide. Not sure how anyone else in the party can really help, here. Assist in making (tech/magic) devices to act as distractions, and literally hurl them out some airlocks? THEN do Group Teleport spell?

More like, every time you teleport, there is a change that the power signature is going to be noticed pinging up as an anomoly on someone's sensors - and for that someone to actually look hard enough to twig something is going on (and if you teleport something big, that risk goes up). Do it enough and someone's going to roll [natural 20] (technically, in RM, this would be "open-ended"), especially given there are effectively a lot of sensors in the system just doing normal operations.

If the Aotrs are ACTIVELY looking, the chances of detection will be up to, like, virtually 100%.


The Shardan Teleport Device is not only Locked Out (I really think Gene {ST} had a warped [heh] sense of humor and knowingly left the Transporters Unlocked for Plot hijinks) But, trying to use this without the correct skill is A Bad Idea. Which is exactly why I suggested for the "unwanted" NPCs to try it. 😜

I'm also guessing that Transportation Devices are NOT small - ie D&D's "Helm of Teleportation"?

No, they are more like Star Trek transporters; the PCs can't use it, because the computer simply won't work for them as they won't have clearance. (Hacking the top-tier computers in the galaxy is well beyond the PCs.) Pressing all the buttons in thw world won't help if the computer just won't let them activate anything.


Let me know if you still want to use the Minor Evil “Minion” Encounter. I think it would be funny, as each one tries to undermine the others in their own group, while still trying to capture the Party!

Also gives a way for the Party to try and get Permission. But, the minions would have to relay the request, wait for processing and reply. AND deal with problems for not following proper procedures!!!

The Aotrs absolutely and explicitly doesn't have the sort of culture that would enable that. Their entire culture over the last better part of three millenium under Lord Death Despoil has been shaped such that it just... doesn't happen. That is, in fact, one of their big Things. Their culture is such that incompetance and/or that sort of petty bickering is basically sociatally unacceptable, and anyone cracking the sort of interservice jokes you often get in different branches of a human navy is going to be met by an unamused silence. Culture flows down from the top, and Lord Death Despoil has had literal centuires to ingrain this into his subordinates.

Recruits to the Aotrs proper are picked, basically, from the exceptional (it's pretty much the entire army ar the SAS - not even th US marines, who take all sorts of chaps and chappesses and forge them into an elite force, it's taking the already good an making them better). They have the luxary of taking recruit based on suitable personality first - the highly skilled maverick that don't play by the rules doesn't even get in the door, but they'll take the (above-average) chap with the right sort of personality if he comes to their attention and if it takes him fifty years to be trained up (because he came from a "fantasy" planet and has to learn all the technogy and stuff) they will do that.

The Aotrs leverage the fact that it basically doesn't lose anyone to old age and so, for example, all the liches that oversee the recruits and vet their personalities, are at this, point experts who have been doing their jobs longer than some human nations have existed and thus basically don't make mistakes on it, or only very rarely, and not for long.

(And because the Liches are predominently spirit-bound (a process not unlike a sort of resurrection or raised dead sort of effect), not phylactery bound, if you think about it, if the body gets destroyed, nothing exactly stops them being re-summoned and bound into another one, except the bottleneck of casters which can do it... Which is itself not that much, given the circumstances.)

Imagine, then, that what you are looking at is something where you have the equivilent of everywhere being run by the metaphorical equivilent of Cohen the barbarian, except instead of slowing down in his old age, he's got stronger and more physically capable.

This is basically the reason why the Aotrs, despite having only a modest sub-thirty inhabited worlds (on top of the usual propotionate slew of minor colonies and bases), are a major galactic power and have such a technological edge. It is what makes this adventure so potentially dangerous.

Doing this mission in, say, the evil human Herosine Empire or the more traditional villainous Strayvian Dominion would be much easier (the Herosines are actively proud of how corrupt they are, even).



(The PCs - and the players - are well-aware of this, especially as the party that is replacing them IS an Aotrs party. If, for example, they wonder what might happen to them if they attempt to get Aotrs co-operation, I can just point out to them the thought of what their OTHER characters might do to the PCs in any potential Aotrs unit's position...)

I am planning for what will happen if they do ask for permission (and it will be granted quite readily, despite any PC fears - but there is a heavy price). It will make the adventure easier in a fair number of aspects, but also harder in others, and pertinetly, is not going to be rewarding. Funnily enough, the Aotrs aren't going to be letting them keep any loot, and as the PCs also have a load of stolen (from the Aotrs...) kit and flat-out-illegal-everywhere stuff they've probably forgotten about, unless they remember it and dump it, the ship (if it surivives!) is likely to be taken off them for entirely legitimate legal reasons. And at least two members of the party will be getting turned in for their bounties! So, co-operation with the Aotrs is very much going to lead to the Neutral At Best Ending.

(Plus, one of the conditions will be that the Shardan have to let the Aotrs have a similar expedition sometime - which cannot be anything that would directly oppose the Shardan state - of the exact same length of time it takes the PCs. Bit of time-presure too, while the Aotrs will be stalling as much as is reasonable. (Yes, I DID crib that idea from V's demon mates, thank you Rich!) Even without, like, commando raids or something, what the Aotrs could do - or more likely, could discover - in such a time with a free pass should be rather chilling.

(It ALMOST seems like that might a potential plot hook for said mentioned other party, doesn't it...!)



To get the Good Ending, the PCs need to very much do this under the radar.



Extraction should be much easier,by-the-by, since it matters not a jot if the Aotrs detect the Shardan beaming every one up at the last minute, since the Shardan ship can then leg it out of there faster than the Aotrs can pursue, cloaked. The PCs and the Shardan both have interdimensional communicators of the top-tier-tech, incidently, so as long as they use those, the Aotrs scanners and sensors just can't intercept or jam (or likely even detect) those transmissios. Well, not without a great deal of planning and huge investment of specialised resources, anyway.

Fable Wright
2019-05-06, 06:08 PM
So this is a stealth fighter problem.

In real life, there are a handful of ways you go about defeating wide array area surveillance.

First, there's of course not having a relevant radar cross section to begin with, the B2 strategy, if you will. One of the drawbacks of doing this is, if course, going in nearly blind, as any emissions (scrying spells/teleports) are noticeable en mass, but a few pulses in different frequencies work.

Second, there's the jamming strategy. You give enough feedback that the sensors are overloaded, so you spoof yourself as something else, like a bunch of fighters or a cloud of clutter.

Third, there's the B1 strategy, which is to exploit the limitations of enemy radar. In the cold war, Russian radar couldn't scan too close to the mountains, or they'd get too much feedback. So the B1 was designed to follow the terrain on the mountains so perilously close that they couldn't be detected.

You've ruled out the B2 strategy, so you need to jam or B1.

Can you spoof a handful of landing craft to look like meteors entering the atmosphere? Believable, then the group splits out to search their landing zone for the site, and has adventures meeting up.

Or you take the B1 strategy. Are there natural satellites that keep getting a false alarm, and thus get filtered out? You could attempt a risky entry nearly attached to a dangerously fast object, then split off and stay lower than Aotrs scanners while you do a ground search. Beware being hailed by air traffic control. Alternately, if they NEED multiple atmosphere entries and exits, you could give them clearly defined satellite windows for when it enters and exits, giving a tense timer to the scans.

Hopefully one if these can help!

The Glyphstone
2019-05-07, 12:28 PM
Maybe you're looking at it from the wrong direction. You're trying to find ways for the PCs to sneak past the space-liches, but every option that comes up you have to shoot down because the space liches are culturally omni-competent, never make mistakes, and have Real Ultimate Power. Instead, you might want to go over the space liches with a fine tooth comb, culture/tech/magic/whatever-wise, and look for things that might result in existent but logically justifiable vulnerabilities in their security cordon - then cross-reference your (likely very short) list against the PC's capabilities to see which are viable.

Aotrs Commander
2019-05-07, 06:22 PM
Can you spoof a handful of landing craft to look like meteors entering the atmosphere? Believable, then the group splits out to search their landing zone for the site, and has adventures meeting up.

Eeeh... *rocks hand back and forth* Might be possible - not really thought about that approach. It would mean that they'd essentially have to be doing down on, like, escape pods or something on foot. It would certainly significantly up their odds of not being detected, granted, but would put a lot of work on the shoulders of the archmage for mobility once down.

Their ship is this:

https://photos.smugmug.com/Primary-Gallery/i-wQmVpMf/0/10a2fa47/X2/Aggy-X2.png

Scale there is 1 square = metre.

(Might not be QUITE right in this isometric projection, this was quite a few years before I started working in 3D properly, and there has never been a reason to re-do it properly!

It's actually an old Orc Fearcrushy fightercruiser design, captured and used by pirates and refitted a fair bit before the PCs got hold of it, and had a few upgrades since. The Orc now use an updated and modernised Ratdak class in their current fleet. That has really nothing to do with anything all at, I'm just sayin'.)


The ship is about 50m long and just over 80m wingspan - not something you could easily hide inside a meteor facade.


Or you take the B1 strategy. Are there natural satellites that keep getting a false alarm, and thus get filtered out? You could attempt a risky entry nearly attached to a dangerously fast object, then split off and stay lower than Aotrs scanners while you do a ground search.

Less staying below the sensors (which are like, orbital and stuff) and more than, once they are IN the atmosphere, that sub-orbital flights don't get the same scruteny (since, generally, you have to get TO the atmosphere first, right? So stuff that's already in it shouldn't generally be of as much concern, given how difficult the former is!)


Beware being hailed by air traffic control.

That, as they say, is the real danger. here If they get hailed, they are kind of screwed, since their ability to try and bluff/illusion their way through is non-existant, and neither archmage's telepathy (she's a mutant ala X-Men) nor the Jedi's Force persuasion is going to be extra-ordinarily ineffective on liches. (Now, in fairness, RM isn't granting them the blanket immunity to mind-affecting stuff like D&D, but they ARE still getting a +100 bonus (equivilent to a +20 in D&D) to their RR (saves); so it IS possible if I roll astoundingly badly that MIGHT work, but...)

So if someone DOES notice them, that's when the midden hits the windmill, since they aren't going to be able to talk their way out of it - and the upshot is going to be that Reinforcements Will Be Called. Given the headstart the Shardan cloak can get them right up on the atmosphere, it's extremely likely the Aotrs couldn't actually stop them LANDING, it's more than then there's going to be half-a-dozen starships (at least!) and a couple of companies of extremely competant Liches in flying APCs very thoroughly searching for them and the PCs can't fight all of them. (The Aotrs would be given it a Jolly Good go at finding the Shardan ship as well, but without special preparation, it's probably still beyond them while it's in space.)


Alternately, if they NEED multiple atmosphere entries and exits, you could give them clearly defined satellite windows for when it enters and exits, giving a tense timer to the scans.

They shouldn't need more than just the one entry, actually. Thanks to the Shardan, getting OUT should be pretty trivial. (Alerted swarms of Aotrs troops notwithstanding...)


Hopefully one if these can help!

It was at least one more thing I'd not thought about, so yes.




Maybe you're looking at it from the wrong direction. You're trying to find ways for the PCs to sneak past the space-liches, but every option that comes up you have to shoot down because the space liches are culturally omni-competent, never make mistakes, and have Real Ultimate Power. Instead, you might want to go over the space liches with a fine tooth comb, culture/tech/magic/whatever-wise, and look for things that might result in existent but logically justifiable vulnerabilities in their security cordon - then cross-reference your (likely very short) list against the PC's capabilities to see which are viable.

Thing is, they kind of don't have any vulnerabilies. Actually, for that matter, aside the presence of cloaking device well beyond what sensors can pick up (which the Shardan have) neither, really, does anyone else; any of the major or even minor space-faring powers would pose a similar problem to get to if they actually ran what is essentially a closed-border system and they were determined enough to be alert. It is, essentially, the sapient/sentient element that is the biggest variable, and that is where the Aotrs happen to shine (and what makes this so dangerous, since they ARE likely to do due diligance than a lot of other powers).

(There are actually a lot of places where this would be flat-impossible to do without detection; the Aotrs themselves, for example, have exactly ONE way in their entirely arsenal they could sneak onto the Shardan homeworld, for instance1 - which wouldn't involve starships at all, and would require the use of something that is basically a secret even to most of the Aotrs (the equivilent of the SGC, actually). (This is why that clause about letting them Do A Thing if the PCs want to get permission is actually important - it means they could actually land to Kethrain and have a look about.) Or the Cybertank home system, which is so heavily fortified, even the likes of the Shardan steer clear. (No-one but the Cybertanks has ever been on their homeworld's surface.))

This is a very dangerous task - basically, whatever the PCs do, they are essentially relying on the providence of no-one looking too hard when the scanner pings (the scanner pinging is automatic; sensors are sufficiently advanced that it's the interpretation of data that's the point of failure2.

This is the final quest for this party, and thus - for once - the gloves are coming off a bit more and there (at least to the PCs) should be very much the possibiliy of failure. Sort of the point is, there is no good plan, there is only the plan the PCs think is least like to fail. (And, speaking honestly, the more they think about the plan, the more likely I am to just roll dice behind the screen for the pretty noise they make, pretend to Maths and tell them they got lucky; if for no other reason than time constraints!) Nevermind the PCs, the players SHOULD be quaking in their boots at the thought of doing this...! (I mean, they've know me for either decades or their entire lives, they know all about the Aotrs!)



Small note: where you have said "shooting it down," I see it as more as "having talked to (or perhaps more accurately, at...!) you guys about it, now I have a more prepared answer." Heck, come to that Great Dragon even made me think about it enough to realise there was a really good solution they do have to hand I'd not considered. As I said up top, sometimes, it really helps me just for people to say stuff that I go "no, wouldn't work," because that DOES help me define at least what I don't want/think should happen. (Rigidly define those areas of doubt and uncertainty.) So this has been helpful, and if I might come off as dismissive, it's kinda not that (intentionally), if you see what I mean?



2Okay, two, but "the signature 100th level spell from the highest-level character present" isn't exactly a widely open option...

(The marginally lower-level but well-into-Epic-equivilent Gate XXV and Gate XXX spells have a range in light-years, but probably still not quite long enough to do it from outside Shardan space and detection range...!)

1As a guide, if they power-down everything and set up either stationary or on a a purely ballistic arc, a ship without actual stealth capability (or an active cloak) has about an 80% chance of being detected by the passive scanners of any and every vessels or station in the system. (For the average tech level, this would be all of 70%.) Turn your engines on and that is immediately 100%. In a fully inhabited system not at combat alert, the issue is whether this gets looked at by an non-automated system. (I.e., whether A N random Lich makes his perception check to notice the ping or whatever.)

Great Dragon
2019-05-07, 06:42 PM
Ya! Thanks!!!

Q: Would making and activation of the (jerry-built) cloaking device be enough to allow Teleportation down (mostly) undetected?

Maybe with "distraction probes" also?
-----
Even a Time Limit to get into the Location could still count as success?

Negotiation for exiting is a separate issue; unless the Good Aliens beam them out once they leave the dimension site?

Excession
2019-05-07, 06:54 PM
It seems like pissing off the owners of this world is a bad idea, and they're paranoid and competent enough to make sneaking in next to impossible anyway. So that leaves negotiation, lying their asses off, or a mix of both.

While it almost never seems to come up in RPGs, telling the truth is actually an option. "We want to prevent «bad thing» from happening, and something on your planet is the key to that, may we please land?" might just work. I guess the downside is if they respond with "We can make «bad thing» into a weapon, you're under arrest!", but if the "good guys" haven't already tried to do that it's probably too dangerous for both sides.

Alternatively, lie. Steal a shuttle and codes from somewhere else, and pretend to be a routine flight. Pretend to be a research or humanitarian mission, or just weird space tourists who want to attend the XYZ celebration in ABC city. Final options: bribery or blackmail. Find an official you can get leverage on, or that just likes money, and have them let you land. Of course, the darker and edgier evil guy will see through their plan but let them land anyway for his own evil, dark, and edgy reasons. Cue drama as the PCs run into factional politics, local dangers, and a megalomaniacal villain who wants the bad thing for themselves!

Fable Wright
2019-05-07, 07:19 PM
The ship is about 50m long and just over 80m wingspan - not something you could easily hide inside a meteor facade.

Earth admittedly only gets a 100m diameter meteor every 2000 years or so, but with the kind of huge craters and mountains you've described on this planet, I could imagine them being more common in this neck of the universe. Also, just because they're uncommon does not mean they don't happen, and they'd be a known thing to immortal space liches.

Great Dragon
2019-05-07, 08:45 PM
Also, just because they're uncommon does not mean they don't happen, and they'd be a known thing to immortal space liches.

Fred Lich "There's another one of those meteors, Joe. Haven't seen one in (xx) years. Before you came here, Joe.... Seems like they happened all the time, then. Not like now, Joe....."

Joe Lich: >SIGH<
******
LoL!!!

Aotrs Commander
2019-05-07, 09:07 PM
Ya! Thanks!!!

Q: Would making and activation of the (jerry-built) cloaking device be enough to allow Teleportation down (mostly) undetected?

No, the material in question... dampens energy fields, rather than cloaks, so wouldn't effect the teleporter signatures at all.

Basically, all the PCs can do -with the EXTREMELY limited amount of the material they have to hand (it is one of those materials that in not replicatable, even with Shardan tech) is strategically coat some of their key systems with it (and they need the Shardan's help to be able to eek out enough to put that micro-layer on). This is not how it is supposed to be used, so it'll effectively be burned off and de-natured in a few minutes, but that should be (will be, from behind the screen) enough from cloak-to-atmosphere that the signiture will be minimised enough to get through safely.


Negotiation for exiting is a separate issue; unless the Good Aliens beam them out once they leave the dimension site?

That would be the best and assumed primary exit strategy, yes.




Earth admittedly only gets a 100m diameter meteor every 2000 years or so, but with the kind of huge craters and mountains you've described on this planet, I could imagine them being more common in this neck of the universe. Also, just because they're uncommon does not mean they don't happen, and they'd be a known thing to immortal space liches.

True - though in this specific case, the craters are because of the Xakkath Demon Wars ten thousand years ago (long, long, loooong story, but the short, short version is "war across all 'fantasy planets' between demons, the then-gods and very early primitive races") - Tusharnos was one of the major conflict points. Tusharnos was BADLY f'd up by that, probably the worst of any world. The Aotrs have only partially fixed the hydrosphere... (They could have done more, but it was both unecessary and makes it easier to keep all those scattered mini-nations in line, since they aren't worth the infrastruture cost of bringing up to speed en masse.) Essentially, there are a couple of small seas left in the deepest bit of the old ocean bed, the old land is now largely dry desert plateau above the cloud layer, and the old sea-beds are now where most of the land and life is. (It's kind of a toss-up how much longer Tusharnos would have survived if the Aotrs hadn't turned up and at least stopped the planetary decay.)

The mess is, however, how things like the pocket dimension with the temple in it have escaped Aotrs detection for the past nine-hundred years.




It seems like pissing off the owners of this world is a bad idea, and they're paranoid and competent enough to make sneaking in next to impossible anyway. So that leaves negotiation, lying their asses off, or a mix of both.

While it almost never seems to come up in RPGs, telling the truth is actually an option. "We want to prevent «bad thing» from happening, and something on your planet is the key to that, may we please land?" might just work. I guess the downside is if they respond with "We can make «bad thing» into a weapon, you're under arrest!", but if the "good guys" haven't already tried to do that it's probably too dangerous for both sides.

Oh, as I said, that is absolutely an option, but, as mentioned, it comes with a very heavy price for the PCs (and argueably a heavier one for the Shardan and possibly the rest of the universe), since the Aotrs have them collectively over a barrel and they (will) know it.


Alternatively, lie. Steal a shuttle and codes from somewhere else, and pretend to be a routine flight. Pretend to be a research or humanitarian mission, or just weird space tourists who want to attend the XYZ celebration in ABC city.

The PCs are REALLY BAD at this sort of thing (and the random nature of at least two of the NPCs is a huge active detriment to trying). Yes, three of them are technically ex-spies, so you'd think they might be better at it, really, but they are really more in the James Bond (or perhaps even the Johnny English) sort of mould who are great at the shooting and explosions, less so at the... other stuff.

Coming up with a suitable cover story - given that the characters really have no idea what actually goes on in Aotrs space (funnily enough, on their last visit, the animated skeletons they enountered weren't especially talkative...) - puts them in potentially a lot of trouble if they pick something wrong, because then it's going to get checked and then they are in trouble...


Final options: bribery or blackmail. Find an official you can get leverage on, or that just likes money, and have them let you land. Of course, the darker and edgier evil guy will see through their plan but let them land anyway for his own evil, dark, and edgy reasons. Cue drama as the PCs run into factional politics, local dangers, and a megalomaniacal villain who wants the bad thing for themselves!

Definitely off the table.

The problem is that is the Aotrs are, for all intents and purposes, incorruptable. (That would be, after all, unprofessional.) There ARE no (appreciable) factions or in-fighting; Lord Death Despoil takes A Dim View of that sort of thing and even the attempt for any living officials to even start - anyone in the Aotrs proper simply wouldn't have BEEN recruited if they were that type of person - is a execute-on-the-spot, followed by "spend the rest of eternity helpless bound into an animated body and doing menial labour while unable to to anything other than scream internally forever."

Incompetance is a literally executable offence, so the usual level of corrupt bureaucrats don't make it TO their first day, let alone through it.

(The Aotrs can pull this off simply BECAUSE they have so many experts with centuries of experience. They are just now at the stage where they made all the frack-ups in judgement centuries ago and know are just too good at their jobs to let the wrong sort through. Even immortals like the Elves slowly haemorrhage their skill-base over the centuries, but the Aotrs expands. It's actually THAT, just the ability to keep and expand their personal skill-base, which is really the Aotrs secret to success; Lichdom is merely the way in which it is facilitated, but it's this people management that is, kind of ironically, the Aotrs' biggest strength. Yes, really, the Aotrs (cultural) super-power is people skills and management! And I mean, like, actual management, not the Captain Kirk-style of management you so frequently get which is the boss just throwing his weight around and angling for a promotion.)

Excession
2019-05-07, 09:18 PM
(The Aotrs can pull this off simply BECAUSE they have so many experts with centuries of experience. They are just now at the stage where they made all the frack-ups in judgement centuries ago and know are just too good at their jobs to let the wrong sort through. Even immortals like the Elves slowly haemorrhage their skill-base over the centuries, but the Aotrs expands. It's actually THAT, just the ability to keep and expand their personal skill-base, which is really the Aotrs secret to success; Lichdom is merely the way in which it is facilitated, but it's this people management that is, kind of ironically, the Aotrs' biggest strength. Yes, really, the Aotrs (cultural) super-power is people skills and management! And I mean, like, actual management, not the Captain Kirk-style of management you so frequently get which is the boss just throwing his weight around and angling for a promotion.)

I think the solution then is to do something so monumentally stupid that the very smartest people that the planet has ever produced can't conceive of it. So basically back to Johnny English. :smallwink:

Aotrs Commander
2019-05-08, 04:50 AM
I think the solution then is to do something so monumentally stupid that the very smartest people that the planet has ever produced can't conceive of it. So basically back to Johnny English. :smallwink:

Well... That actually might not be completely without precident, I suppose...



Like the time that, during the 18th birthday crossover event, the NPC-I've-been-trying-to-cull-then-PC used his flamethrower in melee combat and hit one of the others PCs from the different party, who took a swing at said character with the stuipidly magical sword he'd picked up and managed to cut his arm off (quite impressive, considering the sword-wielder was a mage, and, like low single-digit level; sadly the NPc-now is a walking fish1, so it grew back), and one of the current PCs then fired "a warning shot" with his "most-powerful-projectile-pistol-availale-on-the-market-that-can-threorhetically-take-down-a-vehicle and killed said mage when it hit him in the back of the head. (While the combat was still raging.) (Note that, said "warning shot" was not deliberately aimed to miss by said player, it was "I fire a warning shot shot" *makes attack roll* *splat*)




1Yes, really. Technically, he is a form of transhuman VIII mechanically (they're supposed to be genetically enhanced humans with gills), but the player's first action was to draw him as a walking fish. Shooting his gun while robbing a bank, with his backstory reading "just one of his many crimes."

I had this character removed from the group after his player left (he just lost interest, I don't think he was really ever that bothered), when one of my current players had him arrested for (what was then entirely in character) abuse of flamethower. "Warning shot" guy's player basically sent that character off (while he traded another character in, who was sort of designed to be a vastly better shot) to rescuse Gillman (yes, that is the fish's actual name) from space-prison, so when said player wanted the warning-shot-guy back (so now that player had two chaarcter hanging around, there's a reason wny this group is so damn bloated), Gillman had to come back too. And why I have spent the last umpteen adventures trying to kill him any time I'm given a shot.

(So furious that the one time I had him dead to rights - isolated, swimming in a big pool of stuff with his paltry DB and being munched at by giant aquatic prdators, I utterly failed to roll even decently and he got out almost scot-free.)

I tell you now, Gillman WILL not have a good ending to this last quest; if, by some miracle, the ninja time drake at the end of the module doesn't splortch him, the very best he can look forward to is life imprisionment with the Shardan (and they are so soft-hearted, it probably wouldn't be THAt unpleasent, sadly); if they go with the Aotrs, he's definitely back to proper space-prision, along with his mate and accomplice, since as I have being saying for the past twenty-two years, actions have consequences...

Excession
2019-05-08, 05:44 PM
Well... That actually might not be completely without precident, I suppose...

The best (or worst really) I could think of is to play chicken with the galaxy:

Aotrs 1: "Yes, we can let you land on our planet to solve this problem, here is our price." *hands over written note with a lot of zeros*
PC: "No way, I will let this galaxy be destroyed before we give you a single space-cent!"
Aotrs 1: "You're joking right?"
Aotrs 2: "Sir, I don't think he's joking."
Aotrs 1: *skullpalm*

I have known PCs that would do this. And some that would somehow convince the Aotrs to let them land for free, and owe the PCs a favour in the process. That group seemed to specialise in getting paid twice to do one thing, and selling quest hooks to NPCs.

Aotrs Commander
2019-05-08, 07:44 PM
The best (or worst really) I could think of is to play chicken with the galaxy:

Aotrs 1: "Yes, we can let you land on our planet to solve this problem, here is our price." *hands over written note with a lot of zeros*
PC: "No way, I will let this galaxy be destroyed before we give you a single space-cent!"
Aotrs 1: "You're joking right?"
Aotrs 2: "Sir, I don't think he's joking."
Aotrs 1: *skullpalm*

I have known PCs that would do this. And some that would somehow convince the Aotrs to let them land for free, and owe the PCs a favour in the process. That group seemed to specialise in getting paid twice to do one thing, and selling quest hooks to NPCs.

When I said "price," I didn't mean actual money; no, the Aotrs are meaner than that. Oh, they'll be etremely helpful, by sending along about three squads (24 liches) to help the PCsin their endeavors (which itself will make for some... potentially interestig interactions). But it means a) the PCs won't be getting the ridiculous-amounts-because-it-doesn't-matter retirement money from the aforementioned ninja dragons' lair (because they won't be able to carry it away), b) the Shardan have to pay the heaviest toll as mentioned earlier and c) Shardan, who good lawful people, have to abide by the agreements that Aotrs set out, which means there's going to be no teleporting the PCs out and running away and avoiding these consequences and d) it manes those two characters will be Going To Space Jail, and if the PCs are not circumspect (and all well-behaved), they're going to be arrested - or at least have their ship taken off them - after the conclusion of the ritual for possession of stolen goods (Aotrs gear from the last time), bioweapons (they have a nasty little vial in storage), military secrets (that material that provides the best option otherwise), not to mention the illegal-pretty-much-everywhere ripperguns they have in the ship's armoury that came from the pirates they took the ship off originally...

those NPCs are Going To Space Jail at the end of the adventure

Great Dragon
2019-05-11, 10:00 AM
Well, I'm looking forward to seeing what the Players come up with.

Aotrs Commander
2019-05-11, 10:51 AM
Well, I'm looking forward to seeing what the Players come up with.

It'll be a long time, I'm afriad, the game is going to be in late October (when my actual birthday is).

Fable Wright
2019-05-11, 11:19 AM
I tell you now, Gillman WILL not have a good ending to this last quest; if, by some miracle, the ninja time drake at the end of the module doesn't splortch him, the very best he can look forward to is life imprisionment with the Shardan (and they are so soft-hearted, it probably wouldn't be THAt unpleasent, sadly); if they go with the Aotrs, he's definitely back to proper space-prision, along with his mate and accomplice, since as I have being saying for the past twenty-two years, actions have consequences...

Were he not an NPC at this point, I would put money on his player finding a way to sneak past the ninja time drake, steal the entire hoard without the players noticing, hopping in a time portal forward in time to a point when the bounty on his head had long since expired, and live a life of luxury entirely free of consequences and letting the PCs foot the bill for his crimes.

...So, uh, just make sure there's absolutely no way for the PCs to time travel here, accidentally or otherwise, or Gillman might really avoid consequences.