Optimize the hexblade

[stewstew5]

What is the most power you can squeeze out of the hexblade as a base character build, no special items involved? What is the final build?

[Wildarm]

Darkness/Devils Sight
PAM + GWM + Improved Pact Weapon(+2 Glaive) + Thirsting Blade + Lifedrinker

Pretty high DPS from that build. Throw in some Eldritch Smites for extra fun.

If 1/2 Elf then Elven Accuracy makes GWM even more appealing.

[Spiritchaser]

So:
Primarily ranged or melee?
If melee
One hand with shield for defence or big freaking weapon?
What level of play? Mostly before 12 or plenty of game time after 12?

[stewstew5]

So:
Primarily ranged or melee?
If melee
One hand with shield for defence or big freaking weapon?
What level of play? Mostly before 12 or plenty of game time after 12?

BFW, pre and post 12

[Spiritchaser]

BFW, pre and post 12

Ok, early game, you’re best off with variant human. You’re going to take GWM and PAM as your first two feats. Cast darkness frequently (be mindful of your team and the terrain. there will be times to hang back and blast. Darkness plus melee can cause trouble, so you want to have options. In my experience, it’s a bad idea about 1/3 of the time)

Take hex, use it when you need to, but this is a fallback. Often, even at range running darkness is good, as it can allow you to shield critical parts of your team.

Once you hit 7, grab Shadow of Moil.

By 12 you’ll have cha of 18 and resilient CON.


For a build that will be optimal after 12, you’re better off starting Half elf.

With PAM, Elven accuracy and GWM you are an unholy terror, but the build isn’t really finished until res con which comes very late.

[stewstew5]

Darkness/Devils Sight
PAM + GWM + Improved Pact Weapon(+2 Glaive) + Thirsting Blade + Lifedrinker

Pretty high DPS from that build. Throw in some Eldritch Smites for extra fun.

If 1/2 Elf then Elven Accuracy makes GWM even more appealing.

Why a glaive, as opposed to say, a great axe? Reach?

[Lyracian]

Why a glaive, as opposed to say, a great axe? Reach?

PAM is Pole Arm Master which needs the Glaive. No extra attacks with a Great A e.

[stewstew5]

PAM is Pole Arm Master which needs the Glaive. No extra attacks with a Great A e.

That’s what PAM means okay

[Digimike]

You're probably just going for single class but a 5 level dip into sorcerer and 2 into fighter would net you.

Haste+Action surge

5 attacks with improved pact weapon

Quicken + eldritch blast will net you 3 to 4 more d10's + cha mod.

Toss in some eldritch smite for fair measure if you crit any.

If you don't want haste, Danse Macabre or Hex will give you some good extra run as well.

[Spiritchaser]

I really don’t think MC is needed for a hexblade to be great, but if you do MC sorcerer, it’s the quickened spell that really appeals.

Getting your darkness or shadow of Moil set up on the first round is a big deal.

Quickened EB is of course bonkers

[Man_Over_Game]

If you can fit it in, Tomb of Levistus is a favorite of mine for any Hexblade melee combatants. The ability to mitigate an insane amount of damage has so much use.

Additionally, 1-2 levels of Sorcerer will get you the spell slots you need to consistently use Shield, which is important for a melee caster.

[stewstew5]

You're probably just going for single class but a 5 level dip into sorcerer and 2 into fighter would net you.

Haste+Action surge

5 attacks with improved pact weapon

Quicken + eldritch blast will net you 3 to 4 more d10's + cha mod.

Toss in some eldritch smite for fair measure if you crit any.

If you don't want haste, Danse Macabre or Hex will give you some good extra run as well.

Which sorcerous origin would be best?


If you can fit it in, Tomb of Levistus is a favorite of mine for any Hexblade melee combatants. The ability to mitigate an insane amount of damage has so much use.

Additionally, 1-2 levels of Sorcerer will get you the spell slots you need to consistently use Shield, which is important for a melee caster.

No kidding, Tomb is crazy

[Man_Over_Game]

Which sorcerous origin would be best?

Shadow is my recommendation. Getting it to level 3 means you can convert your Warlock slots into Sorcery Points, for then casting Super Darkness without needing Devil's Sight. Not only that, but it's a lot more efficient than burning high level Warlock slots for a non-scaling level 2 spell.

[RSP]

If you can fit it in, Tomb of Levistus is a favorite of mine for any Hexblade melee combatants. The ability to mitigate an insane amount of damage has so much use.

I’ve thought about ToL on my Hexblade, but figured the Incapacitated status really acted as a negative to its use. Curious as to how often you actually use this in play. Any advice is welcome.

[Man_Over_Game]

I’ve thought about ToL on my Hexblade, but figured the Incapacitated status really acted as a negative to its use. Curious as to how often you actually use this in play. Any advice is welcome.

It does have that problem, since you basically lose out on an entire turn, but you activate it AFTER you take damage. It absorbs up to 10 x Warlock Level over the course of a round, and it effectively costs an Action and a Reaction. I've spent more on less. You'd normally use it for one of these two things:


Trigger it after a badguy's super spell (Finger of Death?) or critical hit.
Being ganged up on in melee combat, using it to delay death while your teammates heal you.



The primary concern of a Hexblade is that they're so squishy compared to most other melee combatants. It doesn't matter if staying alive cost you an action. It doesn't matter what it costs, nothing is more valuable than not dying. If 20% of your team is out of commission for one round, that's a lot better than potentially start Dying and stop contributing for the next 3.

[RSP]

The primary concern of a Hexblade is that they're so squishy compared to most other melee combatants. It doesn't matter if staying alive cost you an action. It doesn't matter what it costs, nothing is more valuable than not dying. If 20% of your team is out of commission for one round, that's a lot better than potentially start Dying and stop contributing for the next 3.

Thanks for the response. I know it varies by group and playstyle, but I was interested in how often you actually found it being used, vs the hypothetical of when it would be useful.

[Man_Over_Game]

Thanks for the response. I know it varies by group and playstyle, but I was interested in how often you actually found it being used, vs the hypothetical of when it would be useful.

I usually used it like once every other major combat or so. I would only ever grab it if I needed to absorb damage on my team's behalf, and if they could take the strain of enemies focusing on them for a round. If you were the 5th character in a group with a Fighter and a Barbarian, it's not worth picking up.

[RSP]

I usually used it like once every other major combat or so. I would only ever grab it if I needed to absorb damage on my team's behalf, and if they could take the strain of enemies focusing on them for a round. If you were the 5th character in a group with a Fighter and a Barbarian, it's not worth picking up.

Thanks for the response

[Digimike]

Which sorcerous origin would be best?



No kidding, Tomb is crazy

I actually like divine soul if you go the ranged bow type. You get Favored By the God's for 2d4 to your hit roll if you take the -5 + 10 damage marksman feat. Plus any cleric spells are now open as options. Guidance, Spirit Weapon, etc.

[Mikal]

Here's how I like to do Hexblade. This gives you nice stuff all the way through, either Warlock or Paladin spell progression, good damage in both melee and ranged thanks to so many smites, regenerating spell slots, and Eldritch Blast.
You also get nice defensive bonuses eventually and the beautiful triple charisma to melee weapon damage as your "capstone".

Variant Human with PAM.
If using Point Buy start with Str 13 Dex 14 (Human +1), Con 14, Intelligence 8, Wisdom 8, Charisma 16 (Human +1). This helps make sure you have enough Strength to multiclass into Paladin.

Levels 1-3: use whatever one handed weapon and shield you prefer. Since you went with PAM quarterstaff or Spear are your best bets.
Take first three levels of Hexblade and go Blade Pact. Upgrade to a glaive for more damage.

Level 4: Charisma to 18

Level 5: Thirsting Blade

Level 6-8: You can either go with more Hexblade and get higher level spells and spellslots, and your ASI earlier, or you can go Paladin now and get to Oathbreaker and Channel Divinity. You also can pick up a fighting style.

If sticking with Hexblade: Charisma to 20.

My Recommendation: Go with Paladin for easier invocation swapping as I'll explain later.

Level 9-12: If you went Paladin, go ahead and keep it for one more level to get your ASI from Paladin and get Charisma to 20. You can stay with Paladin until Level 12 this way, and get Aura of Hate the same level as you would as a pure Hexblade.

If you went pure Hexblade, you get more spells as before, as well as Lifedrinker. Take GWM.

Level 13-20: If you went Paladin prior to this, take one more level to get GWM, then Hexblade the rest of the way. Note: As you now have Extra Attack from Paladin you remove Thirsting Blade invocation from Warlock and use it for something else.
You can either take Lucky at Hexblade 8/12, or boost your Con save up, or whichever you prefer. At level 20, you receive Lifedrinker and have triple charisma to your melee weapon, plus plenty of spellcasting for other situations.

If you went Hexblade straight to 12, then you get all the Paladin abilities mentioned earlier.

Benefits of going Paladin at the mentioned levels: Earlier access to Fighting Style (Tunnel Fighter if you can get away with it, Defensive otherwise), earlier access to save boosts from Charisma.



TL:DR
Hexblade Bladepact levels 1-5
Oathbreaker Paladin levels 6-13
Hexblade Bladepact Levels 14-20
Variant Human with PAM
Level 4: Charisma to 18
Level 9: Charisma to 20
Level 13: Great Weapon Mastery
Level 16: Con to 16 or Lucky
Level 20: Con to 18 or Lucky or Con to 16