Usefulness of Wis for a Ranger?

[Wasp]

Hi everyone

How important is Wis for a Ranger? Especially a melee Ranger? It seems that you would be keeping up Hunter's Mark most of the time in combat and there aren't that many Ranger non-concentration spells with saves or spell attack rolls (with Steel Wind Strike being the notable exception).

So it seems mostly necessary only if you want to multiclass? Therefore: Could a Ranger potentially focus on the physical stats over wisdom?

What do you think?

[stoutstien]

Sure. Thanks to a lot of the ranger class features just bypassing skills you are good to go there and if you avoid spells with saves I could see a valid ranger with a 12-14 wisdom. Would be good for a str based ranger

Zephr strike is a good 1st lv slot that always is valid without upcasting.

[Man_Over_Game]

As long as you avoid the subclasses that actually use Wisdom (mostly Monster Slayer) there's not a lot of benefit from utilizing Wisdom on a Ranger outside of some niche spells and skills.

[KorvinStarmast]

Hi everyone

How important is Wis for a Ranger? Especially a melee Ranger? It seems that you would be keeping up Hunter's Mark most of the time in combat and there aren't that many Ranger non-concentration spells with saves or spell attack rolls (with Steel Wind Strike being the notable exception).

So it seems mostly necessary only if you want to multiclass? Therefore: Could a Ranger potentially focus on the physical stats over wisdom?

What do you think?Mine started with a 12 Wisdom. Worked out fine. But his spell DC's for some things stink. (Like Entangle, hail of thorns, etc).
My go to spells are Fog Cloud and Hunters Mark at low level, lesser restoration, and then later in life summon animals. (Wolves are handy)

[Makorel]

If we look at what the Ranger needs Wisdom for we find that these spells key off of the Ranger's Wisdom score in some way:

1st
Animal Friendship
Cure Wounds
Ensnaring Strike
Hail of Thorns

2nd
Snare
Cordon of Arrows
Spike Growth (Only for creatures to see the Spike growth)

3rd
Conjure Barrage
Lightning Arrow
Wind Wall

5th
Conjure Volley
Steel Wind Strike
Wrath of Nature

And these Ranger features use Wisdom to determine their strength:

Gloom Stalker
Lv. 3 Dread Ambusher
Lv. 7 Iron Mind (Not technically but higher Wisdom helps)

Monster Slayer
Lv. 3 Hunter's Sense
Lv. 11 Magic-User's Nemesis

Base Ranger
Lv. 20 Foe Slayer

The question then becomes "What benefits does the Ranger get from this stuff?" One thing I notice from these spells is that many of them bolster the Ranger's ability to fight at mid to long range and against multiple foes so Wisdom could be useful as a ranged option for a Strength Ranger, although you would have to sacrifice Dex or Con to get a decent Wisdom score unless you have something to give you heavy armor.

[Zigludo]

If you're playing a monoclass Ranger, I would recommend thinking of Constitution as your casting stat, unless your character is a Gloom Stalker or Monster Slayer. Many of the save-based Ranger spells aren't great; maintaining concentration on Ranger spells like Hunter's Mark is very powerful. And hey, you get hit points to boot.

[GlenSmash!]

I like a good 14 Wisdom on my Rangers (hell I like 14 wisdom on my Barbarians), but 12 wouldn't be much different.

[Wasp]

If we look at what the Ranger needs Wisdom for we find that these spells key off of the Ranger's Wisdom score in some way:

[snip]

The question then becomes "What benefits does the Ranger get from this stuff?" One thing I notice from these spells is that many of them bolster the Ranger's ability to fight at mid to long range and against multiple foes so Wisdom could be useful as a ranged option for a Strength Ranger, although you would have to sacrifice Dex or Con to get a decent Wisdom score unless you have something to give you heavy armor.

Wow, thanks for the extensive list!

As I want to build a Beast Master Melee Ranger it seems - based on your research - as if I could actually go quite low with Wisdom. Maybe even down to 10? Didn't quite expect that.

[NaughtyTiger]

Keep in mind, the scariest enemy effects target Wisdom saves.
Failing those can end combat for you and your team.

[Grod_The_Giant]

Wow, thanks for the extensive list!

As I want to build a Beast Master Melee Ranger it seems - based on your research - as if I could actually go quite low with Wisdom. Maybe even down to 10? Didn't quite expect that.
Pretty much. Wisdom honestly isn't much more important for a Ranger than it is for any other martial class.

[2D8HP]

Pretty much. Wisdom honestly isn't much more important for a Ranger than it is for any other martial class.


Between Perception, Insight, and Wisdom Saves I'd wager that Wisdom is important for every class, I'll usually even "dump" Constitution before Wisdom for most of my PC's.

[Sindeloke]

Between Perception, Insight, and Wisdom Saves I'd wager that Wisdom is important for every class, I'll usually even "dump" Constitution before Wisdom for most of my PC's.

Eh, you don't really need more than two people in the party with good senses for out-of-combat reasons, and if you have enough Dex to be high in the initiative it doesn't matter too much in-combat either. (Unless you're an assassin rogue or a variant ranger, but neither is the case here.)

Saves are still a concern, but a single ASI for Resilient (Wis) is easier to spare than the 4-5 ASIs it'd take to have a good save otherwise.

[GlenSmash!]

Between Perception, Insight, and Wisdom Saves I'd wager that Wisdom is important for every class, I'll usually even "dump" Constitution before Wisdom for most of my PC's.


Eh, you don't really need more than two people in the party with good senses for out-of-combat reasons, and if you have enough Dex to be high in the initiative it doesn't matter too much in-combat either. (Unless you're an assassin rogue or a variant ranger, but neither is the case here.)

Saves are still a concern, but a single ASI for Resilient (Wis) is easier to spare than the 4-5 ASIs it'd take to have a good save otherwise.

On my Martials I tend to have 14 Con and 14 Wis (13 + Resilient)

So I guess I agree with both of you.

[Wasp]

Well, let's see how much Wis I can spare in the build. To be honest I feel a high dex and con to keep concentration going may be more important for this character.

[Willie the Duck]

Wow, thanks for the extensive list!
As I want to build a Beast Master Melee Ranger it seems - based on your research - as if I could actually go quite low with Wisdom. Maybe even down to 10? Didn't quite expect that.

If you check out any of the 'can I survive with a starting stat of <below 16> in ______' threads, you'll notice that most classes can get away with low stats in X, Y, or Z. With a Ranger, it is fairly easy to forgo Wisdom, but there are still spells (including some good ones) that utilize wisdom, so it is a choice/balancing act.

It's worth noting that, if Paladins didn't get Cha to saves at 6th, I think they'd use their casting stat even less. Arcane Tricksters and Eldritch Knights, it's much more of a toss-up, based on what you decide to do with them.


Pretty much. Wisdom honestly isn't much more important for a Ranger than it is for any other martial class.

Well yes, but that speak more to the decided value of Wisdom as a stat in general. Rangers and Monks are probably not the most optimized classes in the game, but they do have the advantage of incentivizing the three most generally useful stats.

[Dalebert]

A few of the higher level ranger spells are pretty awesome but less so with a low DC. Just look at some of the spells in that list before you decide.

[MaxWilson]

It also depends on subclass. A Gloomstalker with low Wisdom gets less use out of their awesome Fear spell, for instance.

[Wasp]

It also depends on subclass. A Gloomstalker with low Wisdom gets less use out of their awesome Fear spell, for instance.
This is for a Beastmaster Ranger.