Most broken thing you could do with this change to Magic Initiate?

[Spiritchaser]

Imagine that instead of two cantrips and one first level spell from a given class list, you could instead pick

A) Four cantrips from one class list
B) One first level spell and two cantrips from one class list (as now)
C) One second level spell from one class list. This last option cannot be selected as the beginning feat with variant human.

The class lists would remain as they are, so no poaching find steed from the paladin list.

You could do some interesting things of course...

Pass without trace is a big deal, but wood elf magic already permits it, with more besides providing you happen to be a wood elf.

At high level Aid is potentially a pretty big deal as well, but with only a second level slot behind it, not so much.

Rope trick is interesting, and but likely not broken

Healing spirit is awesome and once per day is still very useful, but probably ok.

Spells like shadow blade and spiritual weapon can be character altering, but with only one use per day, this isn’t likely to be too much trouble.

[Frozenstep]

Shadow blade on a fighter who uses action surge can quickly burn down targets, especially if done in dim light would be pretty scary. It may be one a day, but still, it would be an extremely powerful option. Blur or mirror image are also strong options at lowish levels.

It would definitely be on the strong side, but it would be pretty cool flavor.

[Spiritchaser]

An eldritch knight can already do this with shadow blade, and it certainly can be glorious, but it’s more or less out there already...

[DarkKnightJin]

If everything is subject to the same restriction as MI already is, I don't see things getting too broken.
Especially if they only get the 1 spell of 2nd level per day. Sure, something like Pass without Trace could be character shaping, but at most it would be 1 more casting of it per day.

Healing Spirit is its own can of worms, Spiritual Weapon is useful, but mostly because you can use it multiple times per day. Not really sure about other 2nd level spells that are top picks, but I'm sure I've missed plenty

[Frozenstep]

An eldritch knight can already do this with shadow blade, and it certainly can be glorious, but it’s more or less out there already...

That's certainly true, but you do need to wait a bit longer for it to happen (level 7). But since the option is only available from level 4 and up...I suppose it's not really an issue.

[Danielqueue1]

That's certainly true, but you do need to wait a bit longer for it to happen (level 7). But since the option is only available from level 4 and up...I suppose it's not really an issue.

Level 1 for V. Humans.

[Frozenstep]

Level 1 for V. Humans.


C) One second level spell from one class list. This last option cannot be selected as the beginning feat with variant human.

He covered that case, thankfully.

[stoutstien]

Alter self on a monk would be nice. No op but one of the rare ways to get additional hit on unarmed strikes

[Shuruke]

I feel like this would be more of a problem in long rest heavy games

Id be worried about enhance ability tbh

[Dalebert]

That's certainly true, but you do need to wait a bit longer for it to happen (level 7). But since the option is only available from level 4 and up...I suppose it's not really an issue.

Actually level 8 since it's not Abjuration or Evocation, but I don't think it's broken to get one 2nd level spell a day at level 4 at the price of a precious feat (since it can't be Find Steed).

[Asmotherion]

i'd probably either get it as it is or the 4 cantrips version. i love cantrips.

[DarkKnightJin]

i'd probably either get it as it is or the 4 cantrips version. i love cantrips.

Same. Sometimes I worry I might love cantrips a little bit too much.
No such thing as knowing too many cantrips, right?

[nickl_2000]

It doesn't seem that broken to me. Especially since you stopped vhumans from gets level 2 spells at level 1.

I would probably choose the 4 cantrip version myself, but I also love cantrips.

You can't take magic initiate: paladin right? Because then you could get find steed.

[Spiritchaser]

You can't take magic initiate: paladin right? Because then you could get find steed.

No, you can’t, otherwise that would be a significant concern

[Shuruke]

I'm gonna be incorporating this into my groups and see if anyone grabs it

[nickl_2000]

No, you can’t, otherwise that would be a significant concern

As long as you limit it to full caster lists, then I don't think its really an issue.

Although it does have access to healing spirit. So, watch out for that.

[TripleD]

Warding Bond on a raging Barbarian is interesting. 25% of the damage just vanishes (resistance on your ally, then resistance on the damage the Barbarian takes).

[stoutstien]

Warding Bond on a raging Barbarian is interesting. 25% of the damage just vanishes (resistance on your ally, then resistance on the damage the Barbarian takes).
I thought they ruled it can resistance can only be applied once with warding bond to prevent warding bond chaining

[Spiritchaser]

As long as you limit it to full caster lists, then I don't think its really an issue.

Although it does have access to healing spirit. So, watch out for that.

I appreciate that there is the need for concern with healing spirit, and that many tables houserule that spell, either to limit it to a single target or some other limit.

However
I don’t see a case that healing spirit would be any more broken by this than it would be everywhere else.

If you think there is an issue with this spell, you have likely fixed it already anyway.

To put it another way, I think the issue is with healing spirit, not this proposed rule.

[nickl_2000]

I appreciate that there is the need for concern with healing spirit, and that many tables houserule that spell, either to limit it to a single target or some other limit.

However
I don’t see a case that healing spirit would be any more broken by this than it would be everywhere else.

If you think there is an issue with this spell, you have likely fixed it already anyway.

To put it another way, I think the issue is with healing spirit, not this proposed rule.

I'm not saying you are wrong. The only difference is that a class that normally doesn't need to concentrate on something would get healing spirit. So, there is a bit of a concern there. Still it's not that horrible.

[TripleD]

I thought they ruled it can resistance can only be applied once with warding bond to prevent warding bond chaining

I’m confused. How do you “chain” Warding Bond? The spell explicitly says:



It also ends if the spell is cast again on either of the connected creatures.


In other words: there’s no way to involve more than two creatures.

As for double resistance, there are actually two responses on sage advice regarding a scenario where the cleric personally has resistance when casting Warding Bond. His first response says:



@Plaguescarred Resistance is applied only once to any instance of damage. See the Player's Handbook, page 197.


but is immediately followed by:



@Plaguescarred Ah, I misunderstood your original question. If the cleric has resistance, nothing in the rules says it doesn't work.


So it’s looks like “half of half” damage is valid.