Making a melee fighter that can compete with ranged.

[Genoin]

Hi guys, I am going to be making a fighter for an upcoming game, and every time I look at it, it just seems that ranged seems superior, the archery style with sharpshooter seems too good. How can I make a melee fighter that is as good? I don't know a lot about optimization in 5e, so any help is appreciated. Here is what I am working with

Variant Human (this isn't optional due to the nature of the campaign, well I mean standard human is available to but no lol)
Modified Standard Array of 15,14,13,12,10,10 or 29 point buy. Thinking going the 29PB of 16,10,16,10,14,8 (after racial mods).
Feats allowed obviously
We generally use theater of the mind instead of tabletop, if that matters.

The only things I really feel strongly about are that I want the build to be

Primarily Melee (I know I will need to have a few thrown weapons for situations)
I don't want to be Eldritch Knight but if someone has a really strong argument I might consider it.



I was also considering paladin, maybe a Hexblade / Paladin multiclass. Probably start level 1 paladin for HAP, then go 2 levels of Hexblade for all those goodies, then probably 5 more paladin levels, after that not sure, dont have much experience with this, I heard this was a good multiclass.

[stoutstien]

Hi guys, I am going to be making a fighter for an upcoming game, and every time I look at it, it just seems that ranged seems superior, the archery style with sharpshooter seems too good. How can I make a melee fighter that is as good? I don't know a lot about optimization in 5e, so any help is appreciated. Here is what I am working with

Variant Human (this isn't optional due to the nature of the campaign, well I mean standard human is available to but no lol)
Modified Standard Array of 15,14,13,12,10,10 or 29 point buy. Thinking going the 29PB of 16,10,16,10,14,8 (after racial mods).
Feats allowed obviously

The only things I really feel strongly about are that I want the build to be

Primarily Melee (I know I will need to have a few thrown weapons for situations)
I don't want to be Eldritch Knight but if someone has a really strong argument I might consider it.

Is your only measuring stick damage in this regard?

[MikeRoxTheBoat]

Great Weapon Master Battle Master using Precision Attack to help his attacks hit works. Also any Great Weapon Master Barbarian with Reckless Attack.

Sorcadins can pump out the melee damage via smites if they had a mind too. They're damage dealing machines. Could also do Polearm Master shenanigans for bonus attack smites.

[GreyBlack]

Hi guys, I am going to be making a fighter for an upcoming game, and every time I look at it, it just seems that ranged seems superior, the archery style with sharpshooter seems too good. How can I make a melee fighter that is as good? I don't know a lot about optimization in 5e, so any help is appreciated. Here is what I am working with

Variant Human (this isn't optional due to the nature of the campaign, well I mean standard human is available to but no lol)
Modified Standard Array of 15,14,13,12,10,10 or 29 point buy. Thinking going the 29PB of 16,10,16,10,14,8 (after racial mods).
Feats allowed obviously

The only things I really feel strongly about are that I want the build to be

Primarily Melee (I know I will need to have a few thrown weapons for situations)
I don't want to be Eldritch Knight but if someone has a really strong argument I might consider it.

Easy. Polearm Master for your first feat, at level 4 take Great Weapon Master, and then laugh as you pummel your enemies into dust using a glaive.

An alternative? Just take polearm master and have a shield. Beat them into submission using a quarterstaff while standing in front of your friends.

[Genoin]

One other thing I should definitely point out, and I will edit the OP. My group tends to play in theater of the mind rather than on a tabletop, I'm not sure how relevant that is.


Is your only measuring stick damage in this regard?

Not necessarily, I would like it to compete in terms of damage, but I am interested in the utility that some of the subclasses can bring as well.

Edit: The other option I had considered was a Paladin, maybe Hexblade / Paladin multiclass.

[Asmotherion]

Considering that the archer uses up 1gp of resources every 20 shots wile the melee can combat for free it's fair to give him a small edge in potential dpt.

[stoutstien]

One other thing I should definitely point out, and I will edit the OP. My group tends to play in theater of the mind rather than on a tabletop, I'm not sure how relevant that is.



Not necessarily, I would like it to compete in terms of damage, but I am interested in the utility that some of the subclasses can bring as well.

Edit: The other option I had considered was a Paladin, maybe Hexblade / Paladin multiclass.

Depending on party makeup, an in your face style melee character is worth alot more than the numbers they roll when they deal damage. You're are an immediate threat to foes and give your ranged party members some reassurance that that ogre isn't going to grapple them.

A personal favorite of mine is cavalier with ritual caster feat. Go 2hd and make those bonus and reaction attacks really hurt. Ritual Caster is always welcome in a party. If you want to focus more on recovery you can grab inspiring leader or healer feat.

[strangebloke]

Hi guys, I am going to be making a fighter for an upcoming game, and every time I look at it, it just seems that ranged seems superior, the archery style with sharpshooter seems too good. How can I make a melee fighter that is as good? I don't know a lot about optimization in 5e, so any help is appreciated. Here is what I am working with

Variant Human (this isn't optional due to the nature of the campaign, well I mean standard human is available to but no lol)
Modified Standard Array of 15,14,13,12,10,10 or 29 point buy. Thinking going the 29PB of 16,10,16,10,14,8 (after racial mods).
Feats allowed obviously

The only things I really feel strongly about are that I want the build to be

Primarily Melee (I know I will need to have a few thrown weapons for situations)
I don't want to be Eldritch Knight but if someone has a really strong argument I might consider it.

Just trying to keep up with DPR? No Problem!

Robert Baratheon
Vhuman Battlemaster Fighter x
Starting stats: 16/8/16/8/12/13
ASI plan: level 1, Great Weapon Master, level 4 Polearm Master, Level 6 +2 STR, Level 8 +2 STR
Fighting Style: Great Weapon Fighting
Battle Master Maneuvers: Precision Strike is all that matters.

Strategy
So, uh.

Yeah.

You just run in and hit things. With a greatsword at first, then with a halberd later. If you get a crit or kill something, don't use the 1d4, use the whole die. Power attack all day unless the enemy's AC is greater than your attack mod +10.

Well, that's the simple part. The Complex Part is making sure that you never miss. For that you will want to learn how to be a right bastard with your superiority die. Basically, since you decide to roll precision attack after you see the d20 roll but before you know the result, you can game the system to ensure that you never waste a superiority die. But honestly that's worthy of a whole thread. Its a complicated question with loads of uncertainty.

Maybe take four levels of barbarian after 8 levels of fighter. The combo is sick.

TO BE HONEST, however, I would say that Eldritch Knights can be a lot more effective overall than Battlemasters, and that Samurais deal more damage.

[CTurbo]

Every Dex Fighter is going to be good at melee and ranged.

Battlemaster with a 3 level Gloom Stalker dip would be great for you. You'd get 2 fighting styles which would be Archery and Dueling or TWF, darkvision, and a super first turn which pairs nicely with your action surge.

[MrStabby]

Speaking more broadly about your observation and comparison for ranged vs melee...

Melee has more feats that open up bonus actions to them. This means more attacks and more damage.

Melee can generate yet more attacks from reactions as enemies move away - or otherwise if they stay close it is like a free grapple.

Melee can cause disadvantage on enemy ranged attacks by being in their face.

Melee does not suffer disadvantage from an enemy being up in your face

Several abilities NEED a melee attack - some battlemaster manoeuvres, monk strikes, paladin smites...


There are a lot of good reasons not to shun melee.

[Genoin]

TO BE HONEST, however, I would say that Eldritch Knights can be a lot more effective overall than Battlemasters, and that Samurais deal more damage.

Talk to me about EK then, every time I look at it it looks decent, and I know in theory they are good, I just never like the look of the slow spell progression, but maybe that is just me coming from a primarily pathfinder type mindset.

[Mercurias]

Talk to me about EK then, every time I look at it it looks decent, and I know in theory they are good, I just never like the look of the slow spell progression, but maybe that is just me coming from a primarily pathfinder type mindset.

The great thing about the EK is that the spells it can GET as a non-primary caster are outstanding for what it needs.

Shield is a level 1 spell, and while 5 AC doesn't seem to scale well over the course of a campaign, an EK's armor class will also be increasing. A STR-based EK can potentially push 30 AC at high levels, and not much gets through that.

Booming Blade doesn't look like a lot early on, with a piddly 1d8 only if an enemy moves, but by level 5 it climbs to 1d8 in addition to your weapon damage, plus 2d8. Add in Warcaster, and you'll be able to REAPPLY that same damage if an enemy tries to walk away from you, leading to, what, 2x weapon damage + 2x weapon modifier + 6d8.

Rather than focusing on blasting, emphasizing defense and control abilities (Eldritch Smite makes it much easier to land that clutch Hold Person spell that makes an enemy take every melee attack as a crit) will give the EK versatility, and clutch melee cantrips like Booming Blade work well alongside other cantrips like Lightning Lure which rely on a d/c check (thus helping you land attacks in combat against enemies whose AC is as crazy-high as an EK's).

Also, what is your opinion on Rogues? If you want a heavy-hitting melee character then you could do a lot worse than a Swashbuckler or an Inquisitive for reliable sneak attack dice. Everybody loves Sneak Attack dice.

[Frozenstep]

Talk to me about EK then, every time I look at it it looks decent, and I know in theory they are good, I just never like the look of the slow spell progression, but maybe that is just me coming from a primarily pathfinder type mindset.

Spell progression is indeed slow, but it helps that you have at-will options that are often just a bit better then standard fighter attacks (booming blade, war magic). Having a ranged cantrip as a back up option is also handy, especially compared to javelins once the resistance to non-magical damage starts coming out. As for your spells, even among low level options you'll find many options that help keep you alive like shield, protection from good and evil, blur, and more. There are some real winners among low level spells that don't even care about your intelligence.

[LudicSavant]

Here's what you can do to make your melee build worth considering in the face of optimized ranged badasses:

Exert Pressure With Your Presence.
What's that mean? It means that you being in the enemy's face needs to be a real problem for them. For example, if an enemy walks away from an Arcane Trickster tank build they risk eating somewhere in the range of 14d8+10d6+5 damage as a reaction (at high levels). This presents them with a difficult conundrum. Namely...
- Being immobile means that allies can stick them in hazards, seize superior positions on the battlefield, and generally press the advantage.
- If they want to use a melee attack they have to hit you, the tank, which is what you want (both because you're a tough target and because it allows the party to focus defensive resources into a single chokepoint, making you an even tougher target). If they want to use a ranged attack they have Disadvantage on all of their attacks, and might have to contend with cover too (remember, even creatures provide cover).
- If they want to use something like, say, a breath weapon, their immobility means they can't position optimally to get as many targets as possible in the blast. This is something that is very important in real games but frequently overlooked by white-room analysts.
- If they use something like Misty Step, you or your teammates might be able to counter that. Even if they don't, they just used up their one spell for the turn.
- If they want to walk away, they explode into little giblets. Or at least live for fewer turns.

This is just one small example. There are many ways to exert pressure and the good melee characters will often have more than one (and often be using more than one at a time). For example, a character with Warding Wind on makes all ranged attacks against them and everyone behind them have Disadvantage (as well as several other things). A person with Spirit Guardians on has an area of denial and slowed movement. The combination of shoving someone prone and then grappling them is pretty mean (because it prevents them from getting up). And so on and so forth.

Take Advantage.
Getting Advantage on all of your attacks is generally easier for melee characters than ranged ones, via methods like, say, knocking people prone. Take advantage of this to push out more DPR than at least some of the sharpshooting competition would.

Gotta Go Fast.
Keep an eye out for abilities that increase your mobility or allow you to get around lockdown/CC. For example, a Vengeance Paladin with Find Greater Steed and Haste can move 540 feet in a round and still take all of their smitey actions (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?583957-An-Eclectic-Collection-of-Fun-and-Effective-Builds). Getting Misty Step or the like will mean that you're not completely helpless when faced with Plant Growth or Wall of Force. Stuff like that.

Some Strong Classes Favor Melee.
AKA "Paladins can't smite with ranged attacks, but we love them anyways because look at that sexy aura." (It's powered by 20 Cha, so it is very sexy. The fact that it's one of the best features in the game helps, too)

[Sigreid]

No one has yet mentioned that with the errata you can use pole arm master with a spear and a shield. This gives you an extra attack and you still get to use a shield.

[Misterwhisper]

One big advantage is opportunity attacks.

Although that depends on your dm and their tactics.

Overall it is very hard to compete with ranged simply because the archery fighting style is just plain better.

Bracers of archery also are cheap and a flat damage boost melee can’t get from gear.

Also anyone who does archery could just pick up a finesse weapon and shield and be fine in melee too.

You can get a better ac if you use a shield or a minor damage bonus if 2 handed. That is about it.

[Yuroch Kern]

Huh. If you want to be gung ho and compete with the range, take the Mobile feat. You can close range really fast and any fool you attack won't get to strike back. If you got to leave, same story, but in reverse. Next feat should either be Athlete for scaring the crap out of foes who dare think a ledge will keep them safe from you, or Magic Initiate for Expeditious Retreat and then ask someone to cast Longstrider on you for a 50' move per action for it. You just ran a Longbow distance in a round. You ARE the bullet!