3.P - Permanent hp damage and item degredation

[unseenmage]

Are there any rules for permanent hp damage and/or item degredation eg all items having a number of uses before they expire?

In what sort of game would these be appropriate?

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

The original Diablo had the Black Death zombies which permanently reduced your hp by 1 on every hit. Everyone hated them, you had to watch out for them and very carefully fight them. New players would get their character ruined by them and have to completely start the game over, or just get mad and quit. This mechanic is not fun and has no place in any long-term game. A MOBA like Dota 2 could have a mechanic like that because you're only playing that character for one game that lasts 30-60 minutes, it's not exactly permanent.

The Book of Vile Darkness introduced vile damage, which can only be cured by healing spells cast within a Consecrate or Hallow spell's area. So characters may be stuck with the damage for the rest of the current adventure unless someone can prepare Consecrate when they next rest, but it doesn't make a character unplayable. Maybe introduce something similar that can only be healed within a Hallowed (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/h/hallow/) area, so it only lasts for the current adventure.

Regarding the other half of your question, obstacles like Rust Monsters or Gray Ooze that destroys equipment when it attacks or when that equipment is used against it are just as unfun.

Negative levels that result in permanent level loss are just as unfun, and used more to punish players than as a typical challenge. These types of mechanics feel like a punishment, there is nothing rewarding about it.

[ZamielVanWeber]

Book of Exalted Deeds has rules for HP drain, a form of hp damage that is exceedingly difficult to heal off (wish or miracle only). Biff is correct though that using a lot of these on players can just make them miserable for little gain game wise. Vile damage only really flies in our games because by house rule it can be healed with a consecrated (per the feat) healing spell.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Biffoniacus_Furiou
…vile damage…can only be cured by healing spells cast within a Consecrate or Hallow spell's area.

Similar to this, but slightly less difficult to remove, is the Persistent Wound ability of the Essence Reaver, which is a fairly obscure creature from Secrets of Sarlona. Its natural attacks deal wounds that aren’t automatically healed by cure spells, but which require a caster level check before the healing spell can take effect.

Might not sound that bad, but I threw one of these at a party and they had real problems with it, especially when the cleric kept missing her caster level checks after the encounter. Not as severe as the vile damage, but still gave them some worry for a time.

[Bohandas]

The Shape Of Fire's (Epic Level Handbook) "blazefire" ability drains hitpoints permanently and flat out can't be healed

EDIT:

Also the clay golem's cursed wound ability doesn't heal naturally and requires a caster level check to heal magically

[exelsisxax]

Are there any rules for permanent hp damage and/or item degredation eg all items having a number of uses before they expire?

In what sort of game would these be appropriate?

None. Degredation is for videogames.

[The Kool]

Regarding the other half of your question, obstacles like Rust Monsters or Gray Ooze that destroys equipment when it attacks or when that equipment is used against it are just as unfun.

Negative levels that result in permanent level loss are just as unfun, and used more to punish players than as a typical challenge. These types of mechanics feel like a punishment, there is nothing rewarding about it.

They are a threat, just as a dragon is a threat. It's a different way of your character staring destruction in the face, as long as they know it's coming. If you just hit the player with it sucks-to-be-you style, they will hate you for it. On the other hand, staring down a trio of rust monsters with another flanking you from behind can add a thrill to combat because the players know exactly what is at stake. The key thing here is to make it actually quite reasonable that they escape unscathed. The fun is staring the threat in the eyes, knowing the chance is there, and making it through. Everyone once in a while something will fall, a player will get a negative level that they fail to remove, the fighter will lose his +1 longsword, something like that. As long as you use a light touch and make the risks obvious, the threat can actually be a lot of fun. Just remember to actually provide a reward other than 'escaping unscathed'. Maybe the Rust Monsters don't eat gems, and have a pile of them in their nest?

I completely support things like negative levels and the clay golem's cursed wounds ability, because these are hard to heal up when you're in the middle of an adventure, but trivial to fix back in town. Nothing permanent here.

[Bohandas]

In what sort of game would these be appropriate?

Some sort of bad Dwarf Fortress knockoff