Wanting to a Run a Cival war but im haveing trouble on the political aspect

[Master_of_None]

For starters i am a Dm for a small party of 4 that is due to run a new epic campaine next mounth:smallannoyed: and i am Wanting to a Run a Civil war but im haveing trouble on the political aspects of things. I was thinking have it be a war over coruption or a religous war of sorts like the king passed a Decry baning practice of one of the large minority religions for example the irish civil but with a whole lot more talks of over thoughing the king and conqeust of the land. Thanks:smallsmile: Deus vult

[darknite]

Good luck with that. My only guidance would be to start small. For example, make it localized civil war, perhaps one of two twins competing to succeed their parent as local lord based on the 'younger' one getting info that they were actually the first born. There could triangle of of perspectives between the twins and the current lord. With twins there is often a 'good twin / bad twin' dynamic, where the family anoints one as virtuous and sees the other as sinister. Maybe that's happened and the lord has deemed the (actually younger) favored twin the successor when the (actually older) unfavored twin is really lawful inheritor.

[Frozenstep]

More context could help.

But some generic ideas...

Power grabs caused by the death of the king. Maybe a two sons/two daughters are fighting to take the crown themselves. Maybe son/daughter of king vs noble houses trying to take control.

Something incited by a foreign power. A rebellion secretly led by another country (or maybe even something like mindflayers/drow/some lich) in an attempt to cause chaos so they can accomplish their objectives (getting people to eat/enslave) without the kingdom military being able to respond.

A betrayal by a military leader, who was looking for a quick victory but things went messy and now they're doubling down.

[Master_of_None]

Good luck with that. My only guidance would be to start small. For example, make it localized civil war, perhaps one of two twins competing to succeed their parent as local lord based on the 'younger' one getting info that they were actually the first born. There could triangle of of perspectives between the twins and the current lord. With twins there is often a 'good twin / bad twin' dynamic, where the family anoints one as virtuous and sees the other as sinister. Maybe that's happened and the lord has deemed the (actually younger) favored twin the successor when the (actually older) unfavored twin is really lawful inheritor.

so start with something like a local baron

[Master_of_None]

More context could help.

But some generic ideas...

Power grabs caused by the death of the king. Maybe a two sons/two daughters are fighting to take the crown themselves. Maybe son/daughter of king vs noble houses trying to take control.

Something incited by a foreign power. A rebellion secretly led by another country (or maybe even something like mindflayers/drow/some lich) in an attempt to cause chaos so they can accomplish their objectives (getting people to eat/enslave) without the kingdom military being able to respond.

A betrayal by a military leader, who was looking for a quick victory but things went messy and now they're doubling down.

so say the countys millitary is made of mercenaries and a rival nation has payed them off to cause caos

[OracularPoet]

I’m getting some inspiration here from the Chinese epic “Romance of the Three Kingdoms.” I’m sure you could get a detailed synopsis online, Wikipedia for example. The theme here would be a weak/collapsing/collapsed central authority and the factional struggles which follow. Would work with the twins idea above, too.

In the epic, the least admirable of the three main factions ends up on top. You could follow suit and have that be the probable outcome after the first two tiers of play (absent some brilliant intervention on the party’s part) to set up the back half of the campaign: party not really cool with the winner but also recalls the suffering of the people when open war predominated.

[Wryte]

The first question you need to ask yourself is whether the sides in this war are good vs evil, or if both sides are grey. In other words, are your players supposed to have one clear-cut side that they're supposed to be supporting, or are you planning to leave it up to them who they side with?

The second will be who the power players are on either side. For it to be a civil war and not just a revolution, you can't have all the powerful people on one side. You need nobles, military leaders, major guilds, etc., even on the underdog side. Once you decide who those are going to be, you can figure out what their motives for choosing their side are, which will also lead to what kinds of missions they'll have for the players. A military leader might send them to attack a strategic fort, while a guild master might want to seize a natural resources or commercial centers, and a high priest might insist on the need to liberate a temple or evacuate the innocent before an attack on their city.

[darknite]

so start with something like a local baron

Yeah. You don't want Game of Thrones here right out the gate. Keep it small and intimate where the NPCs have time and space to develop and the PCs have a chance to be important players in the outcome. If you have a more grandious conflict in mind, make this the first chapter to sow some seeds, give the players a chance to become invested and familiar with your world and provide them some character experience for a larger conflict to come.

[Mercurias]

If you're feeling the religious civil war thing, I'd take a lesson from the Great Schism and have two rival groups vying for leadership of the same large religion.

[Ronnocius]

For starters i am a Dm for a small party of 4 that is due to run a new epic campaine next mounth:smallannoyed: and i am Wanting to a Run a Civil war but im haveing trouble on the political aspects of things. I was thinking have it be a war over coruption or a religous war of sorts like the king passed a Decry baning practice of one of the large minority religions for example the irish civil but with a whole lot more talks of over thoughing the king and conqeust of the land. Thanks:smallsmile: Deus vult

I agree with the advice to keep it small at first. What I would recommend is to have many different NPCs that can switch sides during the war and who have their own objectives.

For example, the king has outlawed worship of Kord (god of strength and storms) after his eldest son was killed at sea during a storm. He was influenced to this decision by one of his advisors, a greedy merchant who wants to seize the church of Kord's property and wealth for the crown. One of the prominent nobles in the kingdom is a worshiper of Kord and rose up in rebellion. He then married off a daughter to an orc/barbarian/gnoll/etc chieftain who is helping the rebels by raiding the countryside. The king's brother/uncle/cousin/nephew/etc has also allied with the rebels hoping that they can help him ascend to the throne.

In this example there would be two main factions and a few independents who are not permanently aligned to any single faction.
The King's Faction would include the king, who blames Kord for the storm that killed his son, the nobles who remained loyal, any generals or trusted associates, and any family members supporting him. They could be numerically superior but it will take him time to gather his army in a single place.

The Rebels include the rebellious noble, his trusted associates, any vassals underneath him (who may not want to rebel and will be likely to secretly aid the loyalists), and his trusted generals and associates. Although not as large, his army can gather very quickly and he has the aid of the barbarians. There might even be worshipers of Kord rioting in the capital city.

The independent factions would include the merchant advisor who just wants to hold on to his power no matter who wins the civil war, the barbarians/orcs/etc who are currently helping the rebels but are mostly motivated by lust for plunder, and the claimant to the throne who wants to win the throne however possible.

Obviously this example wouldn't work that well but my point is how having a few different agendas can allow you to easily create plot twists (maybe the rebels are about to be crushed but you want to prolong the war, so the merchant advisor arranges for the king to be murdered in the hopes of getting rewarded by the claimant).

To keep it on a small scale at the beginning, the players could be accompanying a caravan through the countryside when they are ambushed by barbarians. They would soon after learn that the war had broken out, and an incentive to join a side could be the promise of gold, knighthood or other titles, or possibly even a lordship or governmental position. The character's religion could also play a major role. Not sure exactly what you were looking for but if nothing here is helpful some options include the Game of Thrones TV/book series or maybe even researching on Wikipedia.

[Vogie]

To start a war very small, maybe emulate the beginning of World War 1? Instead of a bunch of Countries choosing sides, it's different states or provinces within a larger country

You have a single archduke or other nobility (and/or their family) who is assassinated, and due to their religion/political views/social mindset/family ties/whatever, it divides the provinces and cities into two sides and eventually explodes into a civil war.

Alternatively, you could emulate something like Caeser's Civil War (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caesar%27s_Civil_War), when JC and his armies crossed the Rubicon and marched on Rome as a coup against Pompey & the Senate.

[LibraryOgre]

There's always "King had no direct heirs, so various lesser branches are competing".

King is in his 20s and hasn't produced a child, yet. He doesn't have any brothers, his sisters are young.

Claims to the throne come from his cousins, from powerful nobles not directly related, claims to regency on behalf of his sisters, claims to the crown on behalf of people promised to his sisters in marriage. A cleric produces a document claiming that the king gave the country to the church.

Assuming you're starting at 1st level, most of this is WAY above your PCs heads, unless you're playing Birthright (https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/16938/Birthright-Campaign-Setting-2e?affiliate_id=315505). But, their Baron is loyal to a Duke, and that Duke is brother to the dead king's widow, and he's pretty sure he should be the regent, "protecting" the throne for the dead king's sisters.

[ZorroGames]

Alternatively take a look at the historical mess of the War of the Roses...

Have to love those Plantagenets...

[blackjack50]

For starters i am a Dm for a small party of 4 that is due to run a new epic campaine next mounth:smallannoyed: and i am Wanting to a Run a Civil war but im haveing trouble on the political aspects of things. I was thinking have it be a war over coruption or a religous war of sorts like the king passed a Decry baning practice of one of the large minority religions for example the irish civil but with a whole lot more talks of over thoughing the king and conqeust of the land. Thanks:smallsmile: Deus vult

History Teacher here.

Civil Wars start small. You need to figure out a few key issues. Money? Taxes? Religion? Class system? These issues don’t start in a few days or months. They build over years over select issues. There will eventually be a powder keg moment too. And key players.

But since you are running a campaign for a small group? You will want them in this world. Your NPCs at the top will be political. I suggest making a pyramid/web for both sides for a hierarchy. Have plenty of middle ground independents who are just caught up in the mess with some being privateers looking to make money. Building off of real events is not a bad idea. Just spice things up a bit and change events and names.

[Vogie]

Money? Taxes? Religion? Class system? These issues don’t start in a few days or months. They build over years over select issues. There will eventually be a powder keg moment too. And key players.

That's a good point - remember, a lot of things we don't remember as "Civil Wars" were actually just that. Wars of independence, for example, are essentially a type of Civil War... but are only called that if they're not successful.

[KorvinStarmast]

I just finished a book about the Dark Ages. From the time of Charles Martel to the grandsons of Charlemagne, the never ending civil wars among the Franks left them exhausted, even though they kept the Saracens out of France (for the most part) and conquered a remarkable amount of western and central Europe.
The Dark Ages, 476-918, by Chales Oman does a great job of illustrating civil war as a normal condition. (He also folds in issues like internal religious friction to add spice to the pot).

Great source book. Honestly, I think that the Dark Ages period is a better assumed setting for D&D (particularly the original editions) than the current "late medieval/renaissance/bits of steam punk" setting; but the game has become more cinematic and less campaign-oriented.

Your objective fits the campaign style D&D that the game started with.

The other recommendations to "start small" are good ones. Build the local frictions and fights, and then weave the threads of how those fights relate to higher level fights together so that there are always multiple factions. (Diplomacy is a good set up for this, as is Civ III in terms of having to make deals to make progress).

[Sigreid]

Historically, most civil wars seem to start when there aren't enough resources (usually food) to go around.

[GlenSmash!]

Historically, most civil wars seem to start when there aren't enough resources (usually food) to go around.

Implementing a unique D&D reason for this would be really interesting.

Demonic influence? Dragon corrupting the land? Refugees from a war on another plane suddenly making food more scarce?

[jh12]

Alternatively take a look at the historical mess of the War of the Roses...

Have to love those Plantagenets...

Their entire run is filled with examples of the disasters that follow the death of a king without an heir, or with an heir too young to rule.

[Navmaxlp]

I was just listening to a podcast about Caligula. Really entertaining and wacky dude. Anyhow, he was a roman emperor who treated the senate like crap. Eventually they murdered him much like Julius Caesar. I was thinking you could have something like that where some entities are loyal to the Senate and some are loyal to the slain emperor. The military/Praetorian Guard could be loyal to the slain emperor. He was a great leader and they are looking for revenge and to replace him with someone that will support them. The local guilds and economy support the senate as they are good for business. Nobility and their personal armies support them as well. Again, good for business. This can start off slow by having the senate trying to gain power without killing the emperor for some time. Then when you want things to escalate, they can assassinate him kicking things off. Once the dust settles on the murder, the two sides will be set and the war can begin.

[blackjack50]

That's a good point - remember, a lot of things we don't remember as "Civil Wars" were actually just that. Wars of independence, for example, are essentially a type of Civil War... but are only called that if they're not successful.

Yep. Rebellion, civil war, and revolution are often interchangeable. The first campaign I tried to run was based on the American revolution but centered around a cattle/western type environment. I only got through like 5 games before my group broke up for other issues. I was sad because I had like 30 characters in 4 factions (civilian, independent/pirate/privateer, rebel’s, government). I had an excel page and basically I’d throw NPCs in there and could pull them up if they came back around. Depending on their business they might align one way or another. But it was amusing because my players essentially took the side of the Brits and had no idea.

[Zuras]

How dramatic do you want the choices offered in the civil war to be? Will there be an obviously evil side, or will both sides have legitimate claims? Do you want to deal with PvP implications if characters choose different sides?

Decide your initial answers (they can change, it’s your story) and you will have a better idea how to build the conflict.