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cajbaj
2019-05-04, 12:58 AM
Here's a bunch of fighting styles I made. Tell me what you think! I haven't assigned them to classes yet, but all of them will be available to Fighters, which get 2 fighting styles by the time they're level 6 in my game.

Sweeping attacks: When you hit a creature or object with a bludgeoning or slashing melee weapon, if there is another creature within your weapon’s reach and within 5 feet of the target that would also be hit, you deal the weapon’s damage modifier of your weapon’s type to that creature.

Alternative Great Weapon Fighting: Each time you attack with a heavy weapon you can reroll one of the attack’s damage dice and pick the higher roll. (Try rolling 3d6 and pick the highest 2, like Risk!)
(The normal “Reroll 1’s and 2’s” is fine too, but you have to choose one or the other.)

Veteran: You can use your Intelligence modifier instead of your Strength or Dexterity modifiers for weapon attacks, if those ability scores are equal to at least 14.

Inevitable: You can forgo an attack roll to cause your opponent to make a Strength or Dexterity save (your choice), DC 8 + your Attack modifier with that weapon. If they fail, they are struck by your attack.

Armorslayer: Your opponent’s Armor Class is never considered to be higher than 16 for you, regardless of how high it actually is.

Protection: No longer requires a shield. If you do have a shield, when one of your allies is affected by a spell or attack, and you could move up to half your speed and block it with your body, you can use your reaction to do so. When you do this your body becomes 3/4ths cover until the beginning of your next turn, even if you are incapacitated. While doing this, you also benefit from 1/2 cover.

Throwing: Gain +2 damage with thrown weapons. Effects that apply on a melee weapon attack, such as the Paladin’s Smite, can be used on thrown weapons as well. If you are not using a shield, you can draw as many throwing weapons as you throw.

Fish in a Barrel: You gain advantage instead of disadvantage against prone targets when using a ranged weapon.

Steady Hand: You can add your Strength modifier instead of Dexterity to attacks with ranged weapons.

Redirection Defense: if you have an open hand and are not wielding a heavy weapon, your AC increases by 2. You maintain this benefit whilst grappling or climbing with that hand.

Materia: You can use your weapon or shield as the material component for your spells.

Lancer: When you hit with a lance, you gain a damage bonus of +1 for every 10 feet of linear movement you made that turn before the hit, up to you or your mount’s move speed. If you moved linearly multiple times, whichever linear move was the furthest is what adds to the attack.

Potato_Priest
2019-05-04, 01:50 AM
Armorslayer: Your opponent’s Armor Class is never considered to be higher than 16 for you, regardless of how high it actually is.

Protection: No longer requires a shield. If you do have a shield, when one of your allies is affected by a spell or attack, and you could move up to half your speed and block it with your body, you can use your reaction to do so. When you do this your body becomes 3/4ths cover until the beginning of your next turn, even if you are incapacitated. While doing this, you also benefit from 1/2 cover.

Throwing: Gain +2 damage with thrown weapons. Effects that apply on a melee weapon attack, such as the Paladin’s Smite, can be used on thrown weapons as well. If you are not using a shield, you can draw as many throwing weapons as you throw.

Redirection Defense: if you have an open hand and are not wielding a heavy weapon, your AC increases by 2. You maintain this benefit whilst grappling or climbing with that hand.


So, the others strike me as neat and cool, but these ones seem too good. Armorslayer is just amazing, especially as you get into the higher levels and you start fighting dragons with their 19+AC. Changing this to be never higher than 18 would make it more balanced, though still quite good at the higher levels.

Protection is just way over the top. You can at-will use your reaction to give an ally +5 to AC and Saves, yourself +2 to AC and Saves, and possibly absorb or deflect an attack meant for a squishy ally? Holy Crap! Even the always on ability to take the hit instead would be a decent fighting style, this is way too much.

Throwing: I would remove the part that allows paladins to smite at range. That's an enormous boost to their class that they very intentionally don't get. Otherwise this is great.

Redirection Defense: If it weren't for the incredibly powerful protection style outlined above, I'd say this makes shields obsolete. It allows you to
a) perform somatic components for spells
b) grapple and wield a weapon simultaneously
c) interact with objects using your hand
d) grab throwing weapons and other tools
e) climb

all without losing the AC of a shield? That is way out there! The drawback it has (that you can't wield heavy weapons) is also pretty meaningless, since you can't do so with a shield either. It also makes Materia largely obsolete for those who would normally be shield users, since you can access a component pouch without penalty using your free hand, to get both material and somatic components.

I would change this by doing one of 2 things:
1. Reduce the AC bonus to +1. Still nice, helps grapplers and people who want to be creative with their inventory without being too good.
2. Provide this bonus only when your hand is actually empty. This still allows a lot of nice versatility that shields don't, since you can use throwing weapons and tools as long as you drop them before ending your turn, grapple and move somebody before letting them go, interact with objects, or climb a little ways all without losing this bonus, but it's not practically always-on like it was before.

R.Shackleford
2019-05-04, 01:53 AM
I'll read more but... Armorslayer is way too good.

You're potentially giving someone a +2 to +6 on attacks. All attacks. No.

Fish in a barrel is nice idea, but will hardly come up.

cajbaj
2019-05-04, 02:32 AM
So, the others strike me as neat and cool, but these ones seem too good. Armorslayer is just amazing, especially as you get into the higher levels and you start fighting dragons with their 19+AC. Changing this to be never higher than 18 would make it more balanced, though still quite good at the higher levels.

Protection is just way over the top. You can at-will use your reaction to give an ally +5 to AC and Saves, yourself +2 to AC and Saves, and possibly absorb or deflect an attack meant for a squishy ally? Holy Crap! Even the always on ability to take the hit instead would be a decent fighting style, this is way too much.

Throwing: I would remove the part that allows paladins to smite at range. That's an enormous boost to their class that they very intentionally don't get. Otherwise this is great.

Redirection Defense: If it weren't for the incredibly powerful protection style outlined above, I'd say this makes shields obsolete. It allows you to
a) perform somatic components for spells
b) grapple and wield a weapon simultaneously
c) interact with objects using your hand
d) grab throwing weapons and other tools
e) climb

all without losing the AC of a shield? That is way out there! The drawback it has (that you can't wield heavy weapons) is also pretty meaningless, since you can't do so with a shield either. It also makes Materia largely obsolete for those who would normally be shield users, since you can access a component pouch without penalty using your free hand, to get both material and somatic components.

I would change this by doing one of 2 things:
1. Reduce the AC bonus to +1. Still nice, helps grapplers and people who want to be creative with their inventory without being too good.
2. Provide this bonus only when your hand is actually empty. This still allows a lot of nice versatility that shields don't, since you can use throwing weapons and tools as long as you drop them before ending your turn, grapple and move somebody before letting them go, interact with objects, or climb a little ways all without losing this bonus, but it's not practically always-on like it was before.

For Armorslayer, I typically play and prefer to run low-level games, I don't think I've ever gotten above level 10. But it feels like for a game that WOULD go that high, this one is basically a "Tax" fighting style that's not fun to use. So I think I'll probably just drop it. Inevitable also works for armorslaying an actual armored opponent anyway, and it does it in a cooler way.

Ok, new suggestion for Protection: Separate the new effects to a style called "Barrier". Works as follows:
When an ally is affected by a ranged attack or DEX save and using half your movement would allow you to place yourself in between the ally and the danger, you can use your reaction to do so, becoming the new target of the attack or effect. When you use your movement in this way, you become 3/4ths cover, but you cannot be inside an ally or opponent's space to activate this effect.

I personally feel like it's balanced because if the opponent, say, throws a fireball centered on the Wizard, you can't actually block that. And I had forgotten that you can potentially be in the same grid space and have it count as cover.

Throwing: What if the Paladin has to apply the smite before throwing, potentially wasting the spell slot for a significant range advantage?

Yeah Redirection defense is bunk. I don't want to have a simple +1 AC because we have Defense for that, and I like meaningful options. But it really does make Materia obsolete as well. Hmmmm...
I think the actually-open hand thing might be fair considering that, from a direct standpoint, you'd increase damage from like 1d8 to 1d10 while still having "shield" AC, which is worse than dueling, but I like the item interaction angle with throwing daggers and such. So I'm thinking yes it has +2 AC, but it MUST be an open hand and no heavy weapons. Meaningful decisions instead of an OP passive buff.
Downside being that Materia is still worthless. Oh well, it's pretty niche anyway.

Thanks for the in-depth analysis!



I'll read more but... Armorslayer is way too good.

You're potentially giving someone a +2 to +6 on attacks. All attacks. No.

Fish in a barrel is nice idea, but will hardly come up.
See above.

And honestly, at the moment it might not come up a lot, but I think if Rangers had it and players planned around it, it could be really good. I like things that encourage shoving and other team play, and this one is 100% built for that.

R.Shackleford
2019-05-04, 04:09 AM
For Armorslayer, I typically play and prefer to run low-level games, I don't think I've ever gotten above level 10. But it feels like for a game that WOULD go that high, this one is basically a "Tax" fighting style that's not fun to use. So I think I'll probably just drop it. Inevitable also works for armorslaying an actual armored opponent anyway, and it does it in a cooler way.

Ok, new suggestion for Protection: Separate the new effects to a style called "Barrier". Works as follows:
When an ally is affected by a ranged attack or DEX save and using half your movement would allow you to place yourself in between the ally and the danger, you can use your reaction to do so, becoming the new target of the attack or effect. When you use your movement in this way, you become 3/4ths cover, but you cannot be inside an ally or opponent's space to activate this effect.

I personally feel like it's balanced because if the opponent, say, throws a fireball centered on the Wizard, you can't actually block that. And I had forgotten that you can potentially be in the same grid space and have it count as cover.

Throwing: What if the Paladin has to apply the smite before throwing, potentially wasting the spell slot for a significant range advantage?

Yeah Redirection defense is bunk. I don't want to have a simple +1 AC because we have Defense for that, and I like meaningful options. But it really does make Materia obsolete as well. Hmmmm...
I think the actually-open hand thing might be fair considering that, from a direct standpoint, you'd increase damage from like 1d8 to 1d10 while still having "shield" AC, which is worse than dueling, but I like the item interaction angle with throwing daggers and such. So I'm thinking yes it has +2 AC, but it MUST be an open hand and no heavy weapons. Meaningful decisions instead of an OP passive buff.
Downside being that Materia is still worthless. Oh well, it's pretty niche anyway.

Thanks for the in-depth analysis!



See above.

And honestly, at the moment it might not come up a lot, but I think if Rangers had it and players planned around it, it could be really good. I like things that encourage shoving and other team play, and this one is 100% built for that.

You should put a note about this being for fighters not getting over 10th level. My groups are the same way so I typically try to let people know when I do homebrew.

Also, even at lower levels you can get thrown up against high AC enemies. It's one way a DM can challenge the party by modifying the enemies.

The reason why archery style gains a bonus to attack, or at least why it's balanced, is because partial cover is suuuuper easy to gain (+2 AC). So easy that allies and enemies grant partial cover.

Armorslayer, even giving an effective +2 is way out of bounds to what a fighting style will do.

You should change it to damage.

JNAProductions
2019-05-04, 10:09 AM
Sweeping looks fine.

Alternative GWF looks fine.

Veteran is worded confusingly-does your Str/Dex or Int have to be 14+ to use it? And either way, I don't feel it's appropriate.

Inevitable-Way too strong. Too easy to target a weak stat and vastly increase your hit chance, even with the inability to crit.

Armorslayer-Starts off weak, when most foes won't have particularly high ACs. Ends INSANELY strong, when you have +11 to-hit and therefore never hit on worse than a 5. (Get a +3 magic weapon and only 1s ever miss.)

Protection might be a little overtuned, but it did need a buff.

Throwing looks fine.

Fish In A Barrel might be okay, but I'd watch it.

Steady Hand is probably okay.

Redirection Defense is mostly okay, but specify that it does NOT work with shields. Currently, take Tavern Brawler (for proficiency with improvised weapons, like shields) and have a shield in one hand and a free hand in the other and you get +4 AC.

Materia-I guess it's okay.

Lancer is just wonky.

Composer99
2019-05-04, 12:09 PM
Here's a bunch of fighting styles I made. Tell me what you think! I haven't assigned them to classes yet, but all of them will be available to Fighters, which get 2 fighting styles by the time they're level 6 in my game.

Conceptually, I feel like several of these are really special attacks you can make, instead of fighting styles per se. PHB Protection is a fighting style that's sort of in that vein, however, so it's all good.


Sweeping attacks: When you hit a creature or object with a bludgeoning or slashing melee weapon, if there is another creature within your weapon’s reach and within 5 feet of the target that would also be hit, you deal the weapon’s damage modifier of your weapon’s type to that creature.

It's fine, although "weapon's damage modifier" could be a bit more precisely defined - you mean the ability modifier of the damage roll, yes?



Alternative Great Weapon Fighting: Each time you attack with a heavy weapon you can reroll one of the attack’s damage dice and pick the higher roll. (Try rolling 3d6 and pick the highest 2, like Risk!)
(The normal “Reroll 1’s and 2’s” is fine too, but you have to choose one or the other.)

This probably tilts the odds towards d12 damage dice. Not entirely, but somewhat. Otherwise, fine.



Veteran: You can use your Intelligence modifier instead of your Strength or Dexterity modifiers for weapon attacks, if those ability scores are equal to at least 14.

This probably more properly belongs to a feat. Also, it's confusingly worded as noted by JNAProductions.



Inevitable: You can forgo an attack roll to cause your opponent to make a Strength or Dexterity save (your choice), DC 8 + your Attack modifier with that weapon. If they fail, they are struck by your attack.

This is cool as a use-limited ability, but is inappropriate as an at-will fighting style.



Armorslayer: Your opponent’s Armor Class is never considered to be higher than 16 for you, regardless of how high it actually is.

For Armorslayer, I typically play and prefer to run low-level games, I don't think I've ever gotten above level 10. But it feels like for a game that WOULD go that high, this one is basically a "Tax" fighting style that's not fun to use. So I think I'll probably just drop it. Inevitable also works for armorslaying an actual armored opponent anyway, and it does it in a cooler way.

Armorslayer is also fine as a limited-use ability, but overpowered as an at-will fighting style.



Protection: No longer requires a shield. If you do have a shield, when one of your allies is affected by a spell or attack, and you could move up to half your speed and block it with your body, you can use your reaction to do so. When you do this your body becomes 3/4ths cover until the beginning of your next turn, even if you are incapacitated. While doing this, you also benefit from 1/2 cover.

Ok, new suggestion for Protection: Separate the new effects to a style called "Barrier". Works as follows:
When an ally is affected by a ranged attack or DEX save and using half your movement would allow you to place yourself in between the ally and the danger, you can use your reaction to do so, becoming the new target of the attack or effect. When you use your movement in this way, you become 3/4ths cover, but you cannot be inside an ally or opponent's space to activate this effect.

I personally feel like it's balanced because if the opponent, say, throws a fireball centered on the Wizard, you can't actually block that. And I had forgotten that you can potentially be in the same grid space and have it count as cover.

The original version is, as noted by others, awfully overpowered.

The new version is fine as a limited-use ability, but still inappropriate as an at-will fighting style.


Throwing: Gain +2 damage with thrown weapons. Effects that apply on a melee weapon attack, such as the Paladin’s Smite, can be used on thrown weapons as well. If you are not using a shield, you can draw as many throwing weapons as you throw.

Throwing: What if the Paladin has to apply the smite before throwing, potentially wasting the spell slot for a significant range advantage?

I would just dispense with allowing the paladin smite on thrown weapon attacks and call it a day. Tinkering with the mechanics of when smite applies is just weird.



Fish in a Barrel: You gain advantage instead of disadvantage against prone targets when using a ranged weapon.

Probably fine?



Steady Hand: You can add your Strength modifier instead of Dexterity to attacks with ranged weapons.

This is fine in and of itself, but probably not a worthwhile investment for a Str-based character. A Dex-based character who picks up Archery fighting style will most likely be ahead of them in damage output and can take another fighting style to make themselves better at melee fighting. A Str-based ranged fighter has to take this plus another ranged fighting style to keep up.



Redirection Defense: if you have an open hand and are not wielding a heavy weapon, your AC increases by 2. You maintain this benefit whilst grappling or climbing with that hand.

Yeah Redirection defense is bunk. I don't want to have a simple +1 AC because we have Defense for that, and I like meaningful options. But it really does make Materia obsolete as well. Hmmmm...
I think the actually-open hand thing might be fair considering that, from a direct standpoint, you'd increase damage from like 1d8 to 1d10 while still having "shield" AC, which is worse than dueling, but I like the item interaction angle with throwing daggers and such. So I'm thinking yes it has +2 AC, but it MUST be an open hand and no heavy weapons. Meaningful decisions instead of an OP passive buff.
Downside being that Materia is still worthless. Oh well, it's pretty niche anyway.

IMO, to get the AC benefit of having a shield, you should be wielding a shield. This ability would be fine as a reaction-based ability, but not as an always-in-effect benefit.


Materia: You can use your weapon or shield as the material component for your spells.

I believe you mean you can use a weapon or shield as a spellcasting focus, yes? This style is probably underpowered.



Lancer: When you hit with a lance, you gain a damage bonus of +1 for every 10 feet of linear movement you made that turn before the hit, up to you or your mount’s move speed. If you moved linearly multiple times, whichever linear move was the furthest is what adds to the attack.

Not a fan. Far too fiddly. I would give a flat damage bonus (say, +2 to damage roll) to your first weapon attack on your turn as long as you or your mount move at least half your speed before attacking, or something like that, while wielding a lance.

cajbaj
2019-05-04, 03:42 PM
Veteran is worded confusingly-does your Str/Dex or Int have to be 14+ to use it? And either way, I don't feel it's appropriate.

Yeah, like if you had 14 str you can use Int to use melee weapons or whatever. I think i'll either drop it or make it a feat.



Inevitable-Way too strong. Too easy to target a weak stat and vastly increase your hit chance, even with the inability to crit.

I slept on it and it is way too strong. Even if it was just Dex saves it's still too strong for an at-will thing.



Armorslayer-Starts off weak, when most foes won't have particularly high ACs. Ends INSANELY strong, when you have +11 to-hit and therefore never hit on worse than a 5. (Get a +3 magic weapon and only 1s ever miss.)


I think Armorslayer was an outright bad idea.



Redirection Defense is mostly okay, but specify that it does NOT work with shields. Currently, take Tavern Brawler (for proficiency with improvised weapons, like shields) and have a shield in one hand and a free hand in the other and you get +4 AC.

Noted, thank you. Can't be having that.



Lancer is just wonky.
Wording it is kind of tough, yeah. But I really wanted there to be a feature that embodies "the faster you go, the harder the hit is".



It's fine, although "weapon's damage modifier" could be a bit more precisely defined - you mean the ability modifier of the damage roll, yes?





This probably tilts the odds towards d12 damage dice. Not entirely, but somewhat. Otherwise, fine.


You know I've lost the math behind it and don't remember how to get there without brute forcing it for like a good while, but d12 and 2d6 end up veeery similar. The d12 gets the more obvious benefit, but the 2d6 lets you choose which die is the lowest and drop that one so the math ends up pretty close. And besides, 2d6 is way better than 1d12 with normal GWF so I'm okay with d12 slightly edging out.
And also I like Risk, haha.



This probably more properly belongs to a feat. Also, it's confusingly worded as noted by JNAProductions.

Ah, yeah, probably would be better as a feat.
But yeah it's kind of hard to word it. So if you had at least 14 in an attribute to use a weapon, you could replace it with Intelligence. So if you had 14 dex and 16 Int and wanted to use a bow, you could replace the dex with your int and get +3 instead of +2. Or if you had 14 strength and wanted to use a gr



This is cool as a use-limited ability, but is inappropriate as an at-will fighting style.

Perhaps a Battle Master maneuver?



The original version is, as noted by others, awfully overpowered.

The new version is fine as a limited-use ability, but still inappropriate as an at-will fighting style.

This is one that I actually kind of disagree on. I think the opportunity cost of picking this as a fighting style can't be understated. It's extremely situational and consumes a reaction instead of being a passive buff, it really isn't that good. You can't even pair it with Shield Master to absorb damage completely because that also uses your reaction.



I would just dispense with allowing the paladin smite on thrown weapon attacks and call it a day. Tinkering with the mechanics of when smite applies is just weird.

But it's cool to throw smites.




IMO, to get the AC benefit of having a shield, you should be wielding a shield. This ability would be fine as a reaction-based ability, but not as an always-in-effect benefit.

Understandable, but I still think of it in terms of opportunity cost. You can't take Dueling and also have a shield if you have this one.



I believe you mean you can use a weapon or shield as a spellcasting focus, yes? This style is probably underpowered.

Correct. I've been trying to work it out but I think I'm just going to drop it.




Not a fan. Far too fiddly. I would give a flat damage bonus (say, +2 to damage roll) to your first weapon attack on your turn as long as you or your mount move at least half your speed before attacking, or something like that, while wielding a lance.

The problem with that is that you can just run in circles to build up speed before attacking, and that's just weird.


Thanks again for the in-depth analysis, everyone. I appreciate it. I'll be making a v2 and posting it later today or tomorrow.