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View Full Version : Optimization Do you like this melee dps build?



Mellforce
2019-05-04, 07:48 PM
I never did a melle dps, only casters, so I wanted something that could be able to do high damage, reliable, and also good crits...
It starts at lvl 9, with 20k gold.
so I thought about a barbarian / fighter at first, then I adjusted it like this:

Human, 2 flaws. 2 lvl barbarian (lion totem), 4 lvl figher, 1 exotic weapon master, 2 frenzied berserker to continue.

I think about spending the money onthe +4 str belt and on a keen elven thin blade (1d8, 15-20 x2). I like that blade cos it's a lot of crit, ok base dmg and x2 str with the uncanny blow.

I'd have 10 talents, including jump attack, shock trooper, extra rage. The rest are all requirements needed for the classes/traits.

What do you think? Something you'd change? I took the exotic weapon master cos I have very high strengh, 18 + 2 from leveling up + 4 from the belt, + rage and fury... it seems worth, what do you think?

Firechanter
2019-05-04, 08:21 PM
Well. I see a lot of issues with a build like that.

1. You're an extreme one-trick pony. You can Charge and basically nothing else. Whenever the terrain is too rugged for charging, you can't do your shtick. If your group plays published modules, that will happen very often, because they are often set on extremely cramped maps. Leap Attack may allow you to get past difficult terrain but you still need 20ft of space and can't jump around corners.

2. All your defenses will suck. Crappy AC, crappy saves, no resistances or immunities. Enemy casters will be having a field day taking you out of the fight just by snapping a finger.
Frenzied Berserker in particular is bound to be a liability in a party. Personally as a player I would flat out veto if another player wanted to bring an FB.

3. I feel the EWM stunt is not worth spending 2 prereq feats on. Basically most Exotic Weapons aren't worth it. If you're going to Two-Hand anyway, just take a Falchion (Martial) and be done with it.

Getting high enough damage output to oneshot anything that gives XP is relatively trivial in 3.5. Making yourself robust enough to not get denied your actions, that's where it's at.

Mellforce
2019-05-05, 05:41 AM
These are good points, I see the flaws you talk about. I'd be a joke for any kind a caster. The thing is that I really want to play a one trick pony, simple, with one thing he does well. Life is already complicated, when I play games I want solve problems with hard blows or fireballs :)
We have a cleric, a sorcerer and a druid to keep things polite and do brainy things...

But about the lever in Master of exotic weapons, that's where I have doubts... by one hand, I have 30 str with fury up, that's a +10... with a flachion I waste 5 dmg per hit now, more in the future... I feel bad about that! On the other hand, with a falchion I could get 1 more level in FB, having +1 base attack bonus and +1 at will and reflex rolls, and 1 feat since i would't take the competence for elven thin blade (steadfast determination?).

I just don't agree when you say that if I can't charge that's it.... I mean yea I have 2 things or three that work only for charges, but damage is still very high even without... just not as much!

Firechanter
2019-05-05, 06:54 AM
Well, I understand that sentiment; I am mostly a butt-kicker player type myself and prefer to play bruisers. I do prefer to have some variety and options, but by and large I draw a lot of enjoyment from being the biggest hitter of the group. ^^

On the other hand, in your group you'll be at the bottom end of a huge power disparity. In fact, if the druid player likes to optimize and knows what he's doing, you may have a hard time not getting marginalized by the druid's _pet_. I don't know the optimization levels of your group, but the fact that everyone else has high-tier classes sounds suspicious.

Either way, I think the most important thing is to get your defenses up first, to make sure you don't get taken out of the fight by a level 1 spell. So I'd set aside a couple of feats, levels and WBL chunks for that. Currently you're burning your entire WBL on offense and that's not a good idea. Are you familiar with the "List of necessary magic items"?
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?187851-3-5-Lists-of-Necessary-Magic-Items

Come to think of it, the proper WBL for level 9 is 36000GP. The rest of your group may not care because they all are T1/T2 casters, but as a mundane you will need every penny and then some.
Do any of the other players have crafting feats? Also, make sure what buffs your fellow players are able and willing to cast on you on a regular basis.
Anyway, at just 20k cash - that's 55% WBL - on a purely mundane character you're bound to have huge problems. Maybe you'd like to talk to the DM again about that.
In my last 3.5 game I was the only mundane in the group; we were at full WBL and I used every copper to the max, while the casters didn't even bother to spend their money, and still around level 9 I kind of felt like decoration, whereas the Psion could have soloed the campaign.

As for other defenses, a couple of Warblade levels would help a lot. That class has access to a large variety of "No" buttons that will help make/keep you relevant. The Warblade is my favourite 3.5 class and I usually center my entire builds around it; staying either singleclass or dipping just a few levels here and there. It also plays well into my preference for intelligent warriors and synergizes quite nicely with Knowledge Devotion. For that matter, a single level of Cloistered Cleric is worth a lot more than the +1BAB you nominally lose.

If you have your heart set on the Exotic Weapon Master, may I suggest the Great Falchion (Sandstorm iirc) over that elven wobbleblade: also 18-20 x2 crit, but a shiny D12 of damage as befits a proud Barbarian.
However, be aware that in 3.5, probably 50% of monsters (all Undead, Elementals, Constructs, Oozes, Plants and gods know what else) are not susceptible to critical hits at all, which is why I would advise against crit-fishing from the get-go.

Eldariel
2019-05-05, 06:57 AM
You don't really need Leap Attack yet. Shock Trooper, sure, but you can face-up smash people without it just fine. I'd definitely add Wolf Totem (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#wolfTotemClassFeatures ) Barbarian for the free Improved Trip to put your Rage/Frenzy-enhanced Strength to work (enabling more Power Attack while at it too). You could put some feats to the side for Endurance and Steadfast Determination to shore up your Will-save. It helps with both, Frenzied Berserker drawback and your generic Will-save.

Mellforce
2019-05-05, 07:54 AM
Isn't the great falchion 2 handed? Cos this would prevent me from using uncanny blow (2x str) and that's the only thing I like from exotic weapon master, only usable when wielding a 1 handed weapon with 2 hands.
The class that I really wanna play is FB cos I enjoy the mindless rage theme :)
Let's say I give up to the Exotic weapon master level and so to the 2x str... which makes me very sad... I'd have 2 traits to spend. Where? Should I still take weapon focus on my falchion or it's a waste?
Or I gave up to 2 levels as warrior and take 2 levels in warblade? So i'd just have 1 trait if I give up to exotic weapon master. I still want to be a FB asap, so it'd be 2warrior-2barbarian-2warblade-3FB


Maybe I'm missing something, can I make trip attempts with my weapon attacks?

Edit: maybe 1 barbarian - 2 fighter - 3 warblade ---> FB is better? What stance and manuover should i take? When I gain more levels in FB, my initiator lever keeps going up by half the levels right? so I start at 6th going up.
Will I be able to change the maneuvers as I level up as a non warblade? I'm reading the ToB for the 1st time and I need a little help...

emeraldstreak
2019-05-05, 10:05 AM
Don't drop something that defines your idea of the character. If you want to be an exotic master with 1h-weapon, be. You can still optimize to get sufficient damage for CR-appropriate monsters.

When you can one-shot (or at least one-pounce) CR-appropriate monsters, cool 'rider' effects on your attack don't mean much unfortunately.

You can get the feat Mad Foam Rager and the skill trick Twisted Charge to have better odds to land pounces.

emeraldstreak
2019-05-05, 10:15 AM
Melee characters usually benefit from at least one 'damage reduction' and/or 'damage boosting' template like Mineral Warrior, Half-Minotaur, etc. Here's an example (https://www.myth-weavers.com/sheet.html#id=1133161), notice the 10 DR and the crit immunity mean the character isn't overly vulnerable, yet isn't overly protected in all ways either, because high damage+high protection characters upend the balance of the campaigns they are in.